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      01-26-2011, 09:13 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor J View Post
BMW is going to encrypt the ECU software to make "tuning" very very difficult without voiding the warranty
Yup. Sadly, BMW has said they are greatly increasing anti-tuning measures with future powerplants. I believe Audi will also move in this direction.

While Mercedes has said in they will actually have tuner friendly ecu's in the future.
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      01-26-2011, 10:00 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Yup. Sadly, BMW has said they are greatly increasing anti-tuning measures with future powerplants. I believe Audi will also move in this direction.
BMW increasing encryption: Blah, blah blah... BLAH!

There is hardly anything more hot for tuning than a turbo four! I am highly positive that the ECU will be cracked in no time!
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      01-26-2011, 10:23 PM   #25
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somewhat relevant...they said the blu-ray disk couldnt be cracked and look how long that took LOL. if theres a will, theres a way
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      01-26-2011, 10:28 PM   #26
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When I had my 2.0 FSI the best money I ever spent was on a GIAC reflash. That improved gas mileage considerably and really woke the car up when you put your foot down.
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      01-26-2011, 10:51 PM   #27
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To Audi's defense the 2.0T is an old engine. It proved to be reliable.
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Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.
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      01-26-2011, 10:55 PM   #28
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I don't understand why Audi is still using iron blocks. Maybe I am just out of the loop, but as far as I know, no one is using an iron block in any other engine besides some (but certainly not all) V8 truck engines. What other passenger car today is using an iron block?
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      01-26-2011, 11:01 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtla4 View Post
To Audi's defense the 2.0T is an old engine. It proved to be reliable.
Well..the EA888 version is certainly not old...2010 MY I believe. Also, even the EA113 is not all that old, but granted, is moving closer to the end of its lifecycle. I'm sure this BMW engine just brought that horizon a little closer given the advantage it has on the numbers.

I had the 113 version in my 2008 TT, and it really is an amazing engine to drive. Torque is broad, and as long as you know how to drive it, (e.g keep the rpms up over 2000 which is easy with a DSG in manual mode) there was no turbo lag. Torque steer...well...that's another issue for the FWD models with an ECU flash.

I'm really really excited about this new unit from BMW. Anyone else thinking like me....that a N55 is not as desirable as it once was? Sitting in a 325i, I saw the efficiency and power of the N55..more power, better mileage. But if I had an F32 with this new unit...I'd be 55BHP away from the n55 engine, but with lighter weight and even better mileage. Also in Taiwan, taxes are based on engine displacement, so I think a 2.0 versus 3.0 would save me over $1000USD per year in taxes. SWEET! (That is until gov'ts catch on to small displacement big power units and tax power or C02 emissions like many European gov'ts already do)

Impressive stuff. BMW really needs to get on this technology even more...I bet you a few years from now we could be looking at a 1.5L 3 cylinder engine with similar performance numbers and even better mileage. Not going to lie and say I won't miss the big displacement engines...but times are a changing...and this direction looks promising in that it can meet emissions targets and still make driving fun. GO GO GO BMW.

And go Audi....hopefully its next engine beats the pants of this BMW unit and the cycle on innovation accelerates!
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      01-26-2011, 11:47 PM   #30
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Edit: I'm actually confused where you got the fuel consumption from cause if you look at the a4 in the UK, it's getting a combined 37.7 mpg with the s-tronic.

BMW's transmission also has an extra ratio which aids in fuel consumption too.

As for the BMW engine making more power... well it's running a higher boost and comp ratio so no surprise there either.

I like BMW's new 2l turbo though. FYI, Audi's new a6 beats bmw's 535i fuel consumption based on the euro cycle.

Last edited by Mprofiler; 01-27-2011 at 12:14 AM.
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      01-27-2011, 03:41 AM   #31
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Audi is selling this engine as 2.0 not as 2.8 like BMW. So, money - wise, Audi is the winner.
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      01-27-2011, 04:12 AM   #32
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The two biggest things i see are the lack of mention of the boost run and the MPG numbers.

The BMW I4 runs 19 or 18 PSI, the Audi runs 12, plus the Audis are running lower compression. Both of those add up to a less stressed motor.

Add a chip to the Audi to get it up to 18 PSI and it DESTROYS the BMW in HP and TQ. My 08 GTI running an APR Stage 1 chip made 252HP/303TQ and that was the old FSI version. The newer TSI and the Audi versions make even better numbers in HP and TQ. http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_up...fsi_trans.html

As for the mileage, I have yet to own, or even drive, ANY BMW that evem meets it's EPA ratings, let alone best them. EVERY VW/Audi I've owned has exceeded EPA ratings by 3MPG at a minimum. After chipping they got even better. I can make mid-30s in an A4 Avant automatic at 80MPH without even trying hard and that weights almost 4000 pounds.


The new I4 will be a good motor, no doubt, but considering the stress they had to put it under to make the numbers it's making, there is little to no room for improvement.

Good motor? Yes. Comparable to the VWAG 2.0T? I wouldn't put it up there with it. Maybe a notch below.
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      01-27-2011, 04:14 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I don't understand why Audi is still using iron blocks. Maybe I am just out of the loop, but as far as I know, no one is using an iron block in any other engine besides some (but certainly not all) V8 truck engines. What other passenger car today is using an iron block?
Iron blocks leave you all kinds of room for improvements. But, and I'm guessing here, it has to do with packaging. If they're using really thin walls an aluminum block wouldn't last long.
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      01-27-2011, 04:57 AM   #34
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max torque from 1250 to 4900 rpm. that's impressive!! and this is not even the hottest version.
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      01-27-2011, 06:15 AM   #35
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Audi Valvelift on exhaust? Shouldn't that read intake?

BMW's Valvetronic can steplessly control valve lift ('infinite' settings) while Audi's Valvelift only has two fixed lift settings. So I guess that's one of the reasons why we are seeing better fuel efficiency and arguably other attributes with the BMW N20 engine under comparison.
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      01-27-2011, 07:21 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
Iron blocks leave you all kinds of room for improvements. But, and I'm guessing here, it has to do with packaging. If they're using really thin walls an aluminum block wouldn't last long.
The BMW motor has an 84mm bore with what I am guessing is a 91mm bore center just like BMW's I6 engines. The Audi engine has a slightly smaller bore at 82.5mm but only 88mm bore spacing. So the Audi definitely has less matterial between the cylinders. However, VAG has other engines with similar amount of material between the cylinders such as the 4.2L V8 with 90mm bore spacing and 84.5mm bore, yet the block is aluminum. I believe this goes for the 4.2L V8 with turbochargers as well (C5 RS6).

I am just surprised that in an era where weight is so carefully managed that Audi is still using an iron block. As I said, I can't think of another iron block in a mainstream passenger car engine today, though I am recalling now that the VAG narrow angle VR6 engines are also iron. However, just for example, Ford, Hyundai, Honda, GM, and now BMW are all using aluminum blocks for their four cylinder turbocharged engines. VAG's 3L supercharged V6 uses an aluminum block as well, and I would be very surprised if their new 4L V8 turbo does not do the same.

Quote:
Good motor? Yes. Comparable to the VWAG 2.0T? I wouldn't put it up there with it. Maybe a notch below.
I'd call it a wash, myself, at least on paper. Each has its pros and cons. I just hope BMW has solved their HPFP issues.
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      01-27-2011, 10:10 AM   #37
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in case anyone is interested in some info on the twin-scroll system with a single turbo

http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-09...ign/index.html
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      01-27-2011, 01:19 PM   #38
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The A6 does not come with a 4 cyl, how is BMW gonna push the 5 series with the 4 cyl?

They'd be wise not to.
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      01-27-2011, 01:45 PM   #39
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Quote:
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The A6 does not come with a 4 cyl, how is BMW gonna push the 5 series with the 4 cyl?

They'd be wise not to.
Actually, Audi unveiled a 4 cylinder A6 hybrid in Detroit. It will be sold in the US, and will combine the 2.0T with an electric motor. Now granted, this is not strictly a direct competitor to the upcoming 5 series 4 cylinder. However, since there will be no A6 3.2L anymore to serve as a base model, Audi will almost surely bring the standard A6 2.0T to the US this generation as well. It is unlikely that they plan to price the new 3.0T low enough to be able to put it up against the base model offerings from the competition.
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      01-27-2011, 03:53 PM   #40
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i hope the new 2.0 i finds its way to 5 series(520i)
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      01-27-2011, 04:00 PM   #41
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somewhat relevant...they said the blu-ray disk couldnt be cracked and look how long that took LOL. if theres a will, theres a way
Amen!
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      02-18-2011, 10:46 AM   #42
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To follow up to my own post, Autoblog has indeed confirmed in their "First Drive" article that the A6 2.0T will be the base offering in the US:

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/17/2...iew-road-test/

With only 211hp it sounds like BMW has nothing to worry about as far as matching or exceeding the base model's performance. Although, I would be remiss if I did not point out that the A6 is the lighter car.

Incidentally, VAG continues to confuse with a somewhat confusing overall engine strategy. The US gets the 2.0T for the A6, but the base European model is a 2.8L naturally aspirated V6 with nearly the same power. While this is consistent with past European A6 entry gasoline models (a small V6, not offered in the US), the fact that they are now putting the 2.0T in the car too means the small V6 is simply redundant. I think BMW's strategy to develop one engine to cover each desired level output and use it across all model lines and, by and large, all regions make much more sense. There are plenty of other cases of overlapping performance between engines under the VAG brand umbrella too, including I4, I5, V6, V8, V10, and even 12 cylinders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by palpatine_us View Post
The A6 does not come with a 4 cyl, how is BMW gonna push the 5 series with the 4 cyl?

They'd be wise not to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Actually, Audi unveiled a 4 cylinder A6 hybrid in Detroit. It will be sold in the US, and will combine the 2.0T with an electric motor. Now granted, this is not strictly a direct competitor to the upcoming 5 series 4 cylinder. However, since there will be no A6 3.2L anymore to serve as a base model, Audi will almost surely bring the standard A6 2.0T to the US this generation as well. It is unlikely that they plan to price the new 3.0T low enough to be able to put it up against the base model offerings from the competition.
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      07-02-2013, 05:31 AM   #43
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anyone know if N20 will be in the mini?
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      07-02-2013, 05:50 AM   #44
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The 2.0TFSI engine in the Audi rates as the worst engine in any car I have ever owned, abysmal and totally gutless.

From brand new in 1 year I did 100 miles in it as I hated the car that much which was bought as a cheap run about, which I avoided and couldnt wait to get rid of, to add insult to injury it also had their pathetic AWD. If ploughing on in a straight line round a corner is what your into at a snails pace then buy an Audi AWD car. I thought Noah's ark was more mechanically advanced !
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