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      01-17-2011, 08:18 AM   #23
gthal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omerta View Post
I agree with this. Only had one issue and that was because there was ice under the snow and the car was parked on an incline, otherwise the PA3's have worked very well for me.
So far we are 5 agreeing with the original review and 2 disagreeing... Should have done a poll!

In all seriousness, I'm glad they are working better for some in their situation. I wish I felt the same.
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      01-17-2011, 09:25 PM   #24
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So - today was a COLD and dry day with dry road surfaces. The Nokian Hakkapeliitta R's are more 'squishy' than the PA2's. The steering isn't as crisp. The change is noticeable. I am still glad I changed the tires.

I would prefer to suffer squishy tires in November and March and not have to worry about getting stuck in the snow in December, January, and February.
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      01-18-2011, 10:07 AM   #25
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^^ well, see, i'm the other way usually we dont get mountains of snow here (unlike this year) and roads are mostly dry and cold over the winter... and when there's 10" of snow or more, i have a truck

so at the end of the day i think we all agree ??
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      02-02-2011, 01:50 AM   #26
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I just drove through the worst snow storm I have had to drive through since 1999. The PA3's did a terrific job on the unplowed streets right up to the point of trying to get through 2 foot drifts in the alley to get to my garage. I was buried, but all it took was my girl and I to shovel for about twenty minutes(lucky I live the second house down) and turn off the DSC and I was in.
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      02-02-2011, 10:38 AM   #27
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I think you realize once you have a set of decent winter tires, how bad the pa3's are. If you are coming from summer or even all seasons, they are going to be an improvement, but no where near what a proper winter tire should be. I'd say the ONLY thing they have up on the wintersports is absolute dry (no salt) traction in the winter. They are quite good then - probably 70% of the summer tires, but for everything else, salty, wet, slush, snow, packed snow, they pretty much blow. I'd actually consider them dangerous. I say this with confidence - I use snow tires every year and have tried them all from all seasons, to blizzaks. I'll be going back to the wintersports next year, even if these arent fully worn. Just my $0.02, hoping others dont make the same mistake I did, thinking that a bit of dry performance is worth the huge sacrifice in winter safety.
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      02-02-2011, 11:42 AM   #28
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The other opinion:

I got no problems with the PA3 on my M3 in the size 235/40 R18 95W. Got them new this winter and already driving in deep snow, ice, wet or salty roads and so on. I got no problems at all to come to my house which was on the top of a hill, in deep snow. With the E91 and Fulda winter tires it was sometimes a problem to drive to the house, but never with the M.

I also can drive 270 km/h on the Autobahn without any problems, so the PA3 is one of the best winter tires I got so far, because it is usable in a wide range.
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      02-02-2011, 12:07 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subw00er View Post
I think you realize once you have a set of decent winter tires, how bad the pa3's are. If you are coming from summer or even all seasons, they are going to be an improvement, but no where near what a proper winter tire should be. I'd say the ONLY thing they have up on the wintersports is absolute dry (no salt) traction in the winter. They are quite good then - probably 70% of the summer tires, but for everything else, salty, wet, slush, snow, packed snow, they pretty much blow. I'd actually consider them dangerous. I say this with confidence - I use snow tires every year and have tried them all from all seasons, to blizzaks. I'll be going back to the wintersports next year, even if these arent fully worn. Just my $0.02, hoping others dont make the same mistake I did, thinking that a bit of dry performance is worth the huge sacrifice in winter safety.
I have to agree with your description of the PA2/3 performance in winter conditions. However, I do think for many, many people the trade-off between cold weather performance and snow performance is justified. I've driven my PA2s is some really horrendous conditions and had to be more carefull than I would have with Hakkapeliittas, but the dry weather performance makes up for it my mind.

My philosophy is that I want high performance tires for when I can drive fast and reasonably capable tires for when the weather gets bad. I'll just be more careful in the messy stuff.
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      02-02-2011, 12:31 PM   #30
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We are coming up to 20" of snow. The PA3 got me through 70mph winds and heavy snowfall last night. I do not have any experience with other winter tires because I had these on my M5 and my M3 for the winter. There may be a better snow tire but I do not see a reason to try one since these are doing an excellent job. I have lived in Chicago my whole life and have been driving through snow for over 25 years, so I know what I am doing but I have to give props to these tires.
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      02-02-2011, 01:22 PM   #31
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I don't think there is a tire made that will get the m3 through this though..
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      02-02-2011, 01:28 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark's M View Post
In a perfect world, if I had room in the house for all of the tire/wheel combos we're running on our vehicles, I'd do LM-60's for winter, PS All-Seasons for late fall/spring and the OEM Pilots for the good weather.
Just wanted to expand on this comment. A lot of folks don't realize there're several categories of 'winter' tires, as well as several 'all-season' categories. From one extreme to the other there're something like 15 different categories. You just have to find out which is the best compromise for your conditions, and find available tires on that category. Most folks just hear 'all-season' and immediately think of Corolla tires, when you can buy an 'ultra-high-performance' all-season with all the summer capability you'd ever need on the streets and some winter traction. Similarly, not all 'winter' tires are created equal.

The ideal tire for me would be a 'high-performance' all-season, for the time or two I have to deal with winter conditions, but there's nothing available in stock 19s except 'max' summers. Oh well.
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      02-02-2011, 01:36 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itf joegun View Post
The other opinion:

I got no problems with the PA3 on my M3 in the size 235/40 R18 95W. Got them new this winter and already driving in deep snow, ice, wet or salty roads and so on. I got no problems at all to come to my house which was on the top of a hill, in deep snow. With the E91 and Fulda winter tires it was sometimes a problem to drive to the house, but never with the M.

I also can drive 270 km/h on the Autobahn without any problems, so the PA3 is one of the best winter tires I got so far, because it is usable in a wide range.
Me too -- 18" PA3's, no problems in deep snow!!! With the Winter this year in the Northeast, I can assure you i've had plenty of time to get acquainted with the tires -- I have not been stuck a single time!
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      02-02-2011, 06:36 PM   #34
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is 34.5 PSI a good pressure for PA2 or PA3's on an M3 E90?
I cannot find any info on what these should be set at.
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      02-22-2011, 01:30 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
I have had the PA3's on the M3 since the middle of October and have now been through about all weather combinations possible so I thought it might be useful to post a review. I am running 245/40-18 all around.

I live in Nova Scotia, Canada which has a climate that would be comparable to, say, Boston. We get snow fairly frequently (although not a lot this year ) but it is cleared relatively quickly. Temps range from +15 deg to -15 deg celcius over the late fall/winter/early spring.

I bought the PA3's because the roads are clear 90% of the winter and I just HATE driving on winter tires that are squishy. I hoped the PA3 would be great during cold, dry days and good during bad weather days. Well, I got one out of two...

On cold or wet days, these tires are simply amazing. Grip levels are VERY high for a winter tire. They have great turn-in, great cornering grip, track straight and are very, very quiet. Ride quality is as good, if not better, than my previous summer tires. I forget that I am driving on winter tires whenever the road is clear.

The problem is that they are HORRIBLE in deep snow and ice. My last set of winter tires were Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25s and they were much, much better in snow and on ice. We had a storm this weekend and had about 4" of snow. I decided to take the M3 out on my street to see how the tires would handle the snow. Let's just say I didn't get very far... the tires spun like they floated on the snow. I could not get going on even a slight incline from a stop. As a matter of fact, I would slide backwards. If DSC was on, the tires slipped so badly the engine cut all power. With DSC off, I would spin uncontrollably with any level of gas.

I have been driving rear wheel drive cars in winter for 6 years and this is the only time I felt completely unsafe. Maybe it was a combination of wet snow and ice? I'm not sure. All I can say is the M3 cannot go out in any amount of snow with these tires on.

I'm sure there are those who will disagree with this review but, IMO, you just haven't experienced real snow/ice yet. My wife read some of the Tirerack reviews that said the PA3s made their car a "tank" and her response was "do any of those people actually drive in a real winter?"

My LM-25s were much better in bad weather and 95% as good in the dry. The PA3s are great for 90% of the time but, IMO, will leave you stranded if you get caught in a storm. I had read other reviews that confirmed this but I chose to ignore those and focus on the "good" reviews. I will keep these on for the balance of the winter (3 months) and will replace them with Blizzak LM-60s next winter.

Summary...

Dry, wet, cold - A++

Light snow, slush - C+

Deeper snow, ice - F

P.S. If anyone wants to buy a set of PA3's with about 4,000 miles on them, let me know . I will be selling these for a good price after winter.
I just got myself a set of PA3s and just last night there was a snowstorm and the roads were covered at least seven inches of snow. I got through all that effortlessly and I even drove as if it wasn't even snowing. I dont get how you are having trouble with them in the snow. Just saying..
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      02-22-2011, 05:36 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k7-seven View Post
I just got myself a set of PA3s and just last night there was a snowstorm and the roads were covered at least seven inches of snow. I got through all that effortlessly and I even drove as if it wasn't even snowing. I dont get how you are having trouble with them in the snow. Just saying..
Could be a few things... fresh, fluffy snow vs slush/icy snow for one... Snow where I live is often mixed with ice/rain/slush, etc. In those conditions the PA3 just sucks in my experience and I can tell you that my opinion is based on a lot of years of experience with RWD cars and winter tires. If you had 7" the car would be snowplowing badly regardless of tires but who knows? As you can see in the thread, this isn't just me thinking this of the PA3 it was a bunch of people but I attribute that to the type of snow/winter conditions they are driving in and how good their previous winter tires were (which forms the basis of their perspective).

Anyway, it's great that they worked well for you. For me, they have been only adequate at best this winter and will be swapped out for LM-60's next.

Last edited by gthal; 02-22-2011 at 05:43 AM.
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      02-22-2011, 09:46 AM   #37
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^ +1.

I think we'll see a follow up post at some point saying.. ya they do suck!

On the bright side, they are not bad in the dry. Good road feel for a winter tire. Thats probably the only thing they have up on the wintersports.
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      02-22-2011, 08:13 PM   #38
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I live in Ottawa, ON Canada last 24 years.
M3 has very limited ground clearance for snowy day.
Nokian Hakkapeliitta is always my favorite snow tire I ever have.
M3 with OEM winter package (PA3) is ok, not the best.
Nokian Hakkapeliitta is excellent for the first year. The following years will become ...
Michelin tires are average every year, I can drive for 3 good years, so quite affordable.
If money is not a problem, I will choose Nokian Hakkapeliitta and change it every year.

If Michelin X-IceŽ Xi2 have 235/40 R18, I will buy this one. I have use Michelin X-IceŽ for years and just drove slowly.

Last edited by Fanta; 02-22-2011 at 08:42 PM.
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      07-16-2011, 01:32 PM   #39
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thank you for the review bridgesone blizzaks it is..
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