High-Tech Grand Theft via Comfort Access

robackja · 01-06-2011, 04:35 PM

I just read an interesting article at http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/27037/page1/ talking about security issues around comfort access in modern cars.

From the article:

Quote:

The researchers successfully attacked eight car manufacturers' passive keyless entry and start systems—wireless key fobs that open a car's doors and start the engine by proximity alone.

OC3 · 01-06-2011, 06:42 PM

Not surprising...

donovan · 01-06-2011, 06:43 PM

There you go, someone finally find it. The reasoning behind not having comfort access...put your damn key in the damn hole and turn it! Wont be long until the auto high beams die at least I hope, its disgustingly lazy.

xchosun1x · 01-06-2011, 06:55 PM

damn...not a good feeling to have

Erhan · 01-06-2011, 06:58 PM

Well, it won't really work I think. Sure, they can steal the car, but they won't be able to drive too far away, unless they have a truck waiting so they can transport the car by other means.

radiantm3 · 01-06-2011, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donovan

There you go, someone finally find it. The reasoning behind not having comfort access...put your damn key in the damn hole and turn it! Wont be long until the auto high beams die at least I hope, its disgustingly lazy.

You really hate auto high beams don't you. You mention it in every post.

Just to make you happy I should mention that the auto high beam in my car was extremely useful on my last road trip. 4am down a dark and windy 1 lane road (with cross traffic). Couldn't see that far ahead without my high beams, but patches of cars kept coming the other direction. Instead of focusing on flipping my high beams on/off about 100 times on this 30 or so mile road, I was able to focus on driving. It was invaluable in that situation.

And yes, I love comfort access too.

kaykay · 01-07-2011, 01:46 AM

This is a simple hack, why is anyone even remotely surprised?

FStop7 · 01-07-2011, 02:12 AM

comfort access is pretty great. it's saved me from locking my key in the trunk twice.

i have auto high beams but never use them. don't even know how to activate it.

if someone wants your car they will get it. if not the old fashioned way then with dollies and a tow truck. or with a flatbed. or a laptop. or the most surefire method of all, they will stick a gun in your face and take your keys. bottom line is they'll get it if they want it.

kouhii · 01-07-2011, 03:02 AM

"Hi BMW SOS. Can you disable my car please. It is being stolen and while you are at it can you track down my car thanks!"

Hunter399 · 01-07-2011, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FStop7

comfort access is pretty great. it's saved me from locking my key in the trunk twice.

i have auto high beams but never use them. don't even know how to activate it.

if someone wants your car they will get it. if not the old fashioned way then with dollies and a tow truck. or with a flatbed. or a laptop. or the most surefire method of all, they will stick a gun in your face and take your keys. bottom line is they'll get it if they want it.

+1

Don't really care if they take it, I just don't want it back.

mkoesel · 01-07-2011, 08:03 AM

Years ago there were threads about David Beckham's X5 getting stolen using a similar hack. Although I think they actually cracked the encryption rather than hijacking his key signal directly.

Anyway, this is nothing new. Pretty much any modern electronic convenience makes us more vulnerable to crime. It is just a matter of how large or small the risk is. I consider this one pretty low on the scale at this point in time compared to something like credit card theft or WIFI hacking, etc. Granted the financial impact of this has the potential to be much larger for an individual, but I that's why we have insurance.

ChrisK · 01-07-2011, 09:25 AM

Now we have to worry about our cars being stolen right out from under us.

Read this article:

http://www.technologyreview.com/comp...037/?p1=A1&a=f

mkoesel · 01-07-2011, 09:36 AM

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=473150

///My5UV · 01-07-2011, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter399

Don't really care if they take it, I just don't want it back.

+1! I'd rather have the insurance money than a stripped husk of a car.

This attack isn't really very scary since it requires the key to be relatively close to the car. I'd rather have somebody do something this sophisticated than to get jacked old-school.

Still... anyone have a good source for those mylar pouches you can put your passport, keys, tolltag, etc. in?

ChrisK · 01-07-2011, 10:06 AM

Repost - Delete Please

WillC310 · 01-07-2011, 02:41 PM

Nothing new if it's what I'm thinking of. Basically the encryption used on the keys is extremely weak (a joke if you ask me) and thieves are able to take advantage of it. IMO this is no worse than the E46 since people have been known to make keys that start the car without having the master.

llis · 01-07-2011, 03:20 PM

A few months ago I saw an article about the ability to hack throttle and other controls, which are all electronically controlled. Untraceable unless it's monitored during the act. Basically, cars can be hacked quite easily.

///My5UV · 01-07-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillC310

Nothing new if it's what I'm thinking of. Basically the encryption used on the keys is extremely weak (a joke if you ask me) and thieves are able to take advantage of it. IMO this is no worse than the E46 since people have been known to make keys that start the car without having the master.

This attack would work regardless of what encryption is used, unless BMW tightens down how long the key can take to respond, which probably isn't practical without burning more power and running down the battery faster.

The real way for BMW to "fix" this is to require you to actually use the key. Anyone know if there's a way to disable comfort access?
I'm only getting it because it's basically free once you get nav and two other things in the convenience package.

///My5UV · 01-07-2011, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by llis

A few months ago I saw an article about the ability to hack throttle and other controls, which are all electronically controlled. Untraceable unless it's monitored during the act. Basically, cars can be hacked quite easily.

That requires physical access to the OBD2 port or something else on the CAN bus. The modern equivalent of cutting somebody's brake lines or throttle return spring, but more powerful.

llis · 01-07-2011, 08:46 PM

No, actually this was from close proximity broadcast that can scramble electronic signals. At least according to the article.

Elaz · 01-07-2011, 08:59 PM

in the bronx you learn that shit in school.believe me if they want your car realy bad they'll get it.did it to me with a 2000 impala that i had.they put it on a flat bed and took it out my parking lot.so like i said if they want it they'll get it.especially here in the bronx.

Prince_of_Persia · 01-07-2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elaz

in the bronx you learn that shit in school.believe me if they want your car realy bad they'll get it.did it to me with a 2000 impala that i had.they put it on a flat bed and took it out my parking lot.so like i said if they want it they'll get it.especially here in the bronx.

Wow, for an Impala?!

01-06-2011, 06:42 PM	#2
OC3 Havin' a blast! Drives: 2013 M3 E92 Jerez Blk DCT ZCP Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: SoCal Posts: 3,731 iTrader: (0)	Not surprising... __________________ 2013 E92 M3 Jerez Black DCT ZCP 2011 E90 M3 Jerez Black DCT ZCP (Gone - traded in) 2008 E90 M3 Jerez Black 6MT (Gone - End of Lease)

01-06-2011, 06:43 PM	#3
donovan Brigadier General Drives: E92 m3 AW, light package Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: le' Murica Posts: 3,036 iTrader: (8)	There you go, someone finally find it. The reasoning behind not having comfort access...put your damn key in the damn hole and turn it! Wont be long until the auto high beams die at least I hope, its disgustingly lazy. __________________ e46 m3 Black To many mods

01-06-2011, 06:55 PM	#4
xchosun1x FNG Drives: JZB 2008 E92 M3 DCT Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,043 iTrader: (9)	damn...not a good feeling to have __________________ The R's Tuning / Bloodbath Clothing / WWC / 90210 wrap / Scribble Pad Studios

01-06-2011, 06:58 PM	#5
Erhan Colonel Drives: Cooper S Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,462 iTrader: (0)	Well, it won't really work I think. Sure, they can steal the car, but they won't be able to drive too far away, unless they have a truck waiting so they can transport the car by other means. __________________ 2011 MINI Cooper S previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan

01-07-2011, 01:46 AM	#7
kaykay Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,770 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 E93 328i Conve ... [4.75] 2011 E92 M3 ZCP [4.33] 2008 550i Sport [5.00]	This is a simple hack, why is anyone even remotely surprised? __________________ '12 CLS550 Palladium Silver - loaded '11 E92 M3 ZCP - SG/B-EXT/CF, M-DCT, loaded '11 E93 328i, BSM over Saddle Brown, sport, loaded '08 550i M-Sport, Carbon Black (Gone but not forgotten), '06 W211 E55 AMG (Gone, miss this animal),'01 E39 540i Sport

01-07-2011, 02:12 AM	#8
FStop7 I like cars Drives: M6 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Newbury Park, CA Posts: 5,061 iTrader: (3)	comfort access is pretty great. it's saved me from locking my key in the trunk twice. i have auto high beams but never use them. don't even know how to activate it. if someone wants your car they will get it. if not the old fashioned way then with dollies and a tow truck. or with a flatbed. or a laptop. or the most surefire method of all, they will stick a gun in your face and take your keys. bottom line is they'll get it if they want it.

01-07-2011, 03:02 AM	#9
kouhii Private Drives: 09 E90M3DCT Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Silicon Valley Posts: 76 iTrader: (0)	"Hi BMW SOS. Can you disable my car please. It is being stolen and while you are at it can you track down my car thanks!"

01-07-2011, 08:03 AM	#11
mkoesel Moderator Drives: IB/PS M-DCT E93 M3 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canton, MI Posts: 11,723 iTrader: (1)	Years ago there were threads about David Beckham's X5 getting stolen using a similar hack. Although I think they actually cracked the encryption rather than hijacking his key signal directly. Anyway, this is nothing new. Pretty much any modern electronic convenience makes us more vulnerable to crime. It is just a matter of how large or small the risk is. I consider this one pretty low on the scale at this point in time compared to something like credit card theft or WIFI hacking, etc. Granted the financial impact of this has the potential to be much larger for an individual, but I that's why we have insurance. __________________ 2008 Interlagos Blue E93 M3 - M-DCT 2011 Salsa Red Jetta TDI Sportwagen - DSG

01-07-2011, 09:25 AM	#12
ChrisK Brigadier General Drives: 2011 E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: IL Posts: 4,626 iTrader: (4)	Comfort Access - Alert Now we have to worry about our cars being stolen right out from under us. Read this article: http://www.technologyreview.com/comp...037/?p1=A1&a=f __________________ 2011 E92 M3: AW/BLK • DCT Europäische Lieferung am 6. August 2010

01-07-2011, 09:36 AM	#13
mkoesel Moderator Drives: IB/PS M-DCT E93 M3 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canton, MI Posts: 11,723 iTrader: (1)	http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=473150 __________________ 2008 Interlagos Blue E93 M3 - M-DCT 2011 Salsa Red Jetta TDI Sportwagen - DSG

01-07-2011, 10:06 AM	#15
ChrisK Brigadier General Drives: 2011 E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: IL Posts: 4,626 iTrader: (4)	Repost - Delete Please __________________ 2011 E92 M3: AW/BLK • DCT Europäische Lieferung am 6. August 2010

01-07-2011, 02:41 PM	#16
WillC310 First Lieutenant Drives: 2010 E90 Alpine White/Black Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 371 iTrader: (0)	Nothing new if it's what I'm thinking of. Basically the encryption used on the keys is extremely weak (a joke if you ask me) and thieves are able to take advantage of it. IMO this is no worse than the E46 since people have been known to make keys that start the car without having the master.

01-07-2011, 03:20 PM	#17
llis snarkarina Drives: M3s Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 998 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2013 BMW M3 [5.00] 1998 BMW M3 (GTS-2) [0.00] 2002 530i [0.00]	A few months ago I saw an article about the ability to hack throttle and other controls, which are all electronically controlled. Untraceable unless it's monitored during the act. Basically, cars can be hacked quite easily. __________________ 2013 E92 ///M3 ZCP 6MT » 1998 E36 ///M3 [GTS-2] Toot Sweet Racing

01-07-2011, 08:46 PM	#20
llis snarkarina Drives: M3s Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 998 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2013 BMW M3 [5.00] 1998 BMW M3 (GTS-2) [0.00] 2002 530i [0.00]	No, actually this was from close proximity broadcast that can scramble electronic signals. At least according to the article. __________________ 2013 E92 ///M3 ZCP 6MT » 1998 E36 ///M3 [GTS-2] Toot Sweet Racing

01-07-2011, 08:59 PM	#21
Elaz First Lieutenant Drives: 2011 e92 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: new york Posts: 392 iTrader: (1)	in the bronx you learn that shit in school.believe me if they want your car realy bad they'll get it.did it to me with a 2000 impala that i had.they put it on a flat bed and took it out my parking lot.so like i said if they want it they'll get it.especially here in the bronx.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search