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      01-10-2017, 11:25 AM   #1
csu87
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Athletic Training Recommendations

Well, before I hit 30, I decided it would be a good idea (not the best idea) to try out for a Semi Pro Football Team in my area. on the team now after a lackluster tryout, but good football awareness and I need to start training so I dont look like the old guy out there.

Im 5-9, 195lbs. Background on me is I have been weight training for years, with little cardio, and have gotten very stiff (Back, Knees, Hips) and have lost all explosiveness I had back in the day. Recently started running everyday, ~1-2miles depending on how cold it is, as well as doing 30minutes - 1hr on a stationary bike and doing about 15-20 minutes of core exercises. Do roughly 1.5-2hrs of working out a day.

Weekly Routine is
1 Day Chest/Arms - Regular, Incline, Decline Bench 5x5, Close Dumbell Regular/Incline, Flys, Tris, Bis
1 Day Back - Deadlift 5x5, Rows, Pull Downs, Reverse Flys
1 Day Shoulders/Arms - Dumbell Overhead, Arnold Press, "Circuit" with 4 lifts x5 for 4 sets with 60 seconds rest, tris, bis
1 Day Legs - Squats 8x5, Leg Press 5x5
1 Day Chest/Shoulders/Arms - Regular, Incline, Overhead press, Tris, Bis
Weekends are either all cardio or half cardio/half core. Ill do some sprints and agility drills as well.

My question is, what are other guys doing for more of an athletic training vs strength/size training? More Olympic Lifting? Crossfit?

Ive read and researched several routines that I may start trying, but if someone has some good experience, Id rather start with that vs jumping in blindly till I find something that works.
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      01-10-2017, 11:41 AM   #2
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seriously, good luck.
With your dimensions don't you need speed ? How long does it take you to run 2-miles ?
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      01-10-2017, 11:46 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
seriously, good luck.
With your dimensions don't you need speed ? How long does it take you to run 2-miles ?
yes need speed.

I can do 1 mile in under 6 minutes now and 2 miles around 12 minutes.

Ran a 5 second 40 a couple weeks ago . Started stretching more to see if I can get that down.
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      01-10-2017, 11:57 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
yes need speed.

I can do 1 mile in under 6 minutes now and 2 miles around 12 minutes.

Ran a 5 second 40 a couple weeks ago . Started stretching more to see if I can get that down.
Football and running for a mile or two straight have little to do each other, you are looking for explosive quick sprints but running 6-12 minutes at one pace. If you are running everyday and your goal is to get your 40 down you will need to start running sprints at least a couple of days a week to make it happen. Basically you have to train for the goal and stretching or running a mile straight won't do it.
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      01-10-2017, 12:29 PM   #5
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Running distance is a tough call if your not already a sprinter or peak conditioned.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...unning-program

https://www.google.com/amp/www.runne...?client=safari
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      01-10-2017, 01:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Football and running for a mile or two straight have little to do each other, you are looking for explosive quick sprints but running 6-12 minutes at one pace. If you are running everyday and your goal is to get your 40 down you will need to start running sprints at least a couple of days a week to make it happen. Basically you have to train for the goal and stretching or running a mile straight won't do it.
Yeah Im also trying to get my stamina up. When i said i havent done much cardio in awhile, i meant it. I was dying in the warmups the other day, and it was also probably the most ive ran combined in a few years.

Ive been doing sprints at least once per week, if not twice depending on the weather. Hard to run sprints when theres snow everywhere. I can at least run distances on the treadmill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
Running distance is a tough call if your not already a sprinter or peak conditioned.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...unning-program

https://www.google.com/amp/www.runne...?client=safari
I was a sprinter in school, and have always been a better sprinter than distance guy, so I think eventually, ill get those legs back under me. The running a mile or 2 is more for conditioning so I dont pass out while playing.

My biggest issue is coming up with a legit workout/lifting plan for this. For 10+ years my lifting goals have been bigger/stronger, not necessarily athletic goals. Ive already cut weight down from 200/205 and will probably cut another 10 lbs which should help with speed as well.

Ive read a few articles saying that you should be doing more Olympic lifts vs what you consider "normal" lifts to build athleticism. Any experience in that?
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      01-10-2017, 02:02 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
Yeah Im also trying to get my stamina up. When i said i havent done much cardio in awhile, i meant it. I was dying in the warmups the other day, and it was also probably the most ive ran combined in a few years.

Ive been doing sprints at least once per week, if not twice depending on the weather. Hard to run sprints when theres snow everywhere. I can at least run distances on the treadmill.
I am a runner so I understand this part better than the rest (5k's, 10k's, half and full marathons, and over 25 years).

If you want to build stamina, forget the 1-2 mile runs every day. Do it every other day and stay on the treadmill or outside for 30 minutes. If this means jogging slowly or run/walking (run 2 minutes/walk 1 or some other interval but the same throughout the whole 30 minutes) you will build endurance far more than running for 8-16 minutes every day (and total exercise time will be less than doing it everyday). This will also work better than the 30-60 minutes on a stationary bike.

If or when you can jog 30 minutes straight then you can do this 2 days a week and then do some type of interval training starting at 1 day a week.

Also, if talking about interval training you can do it in any weather or on the treadmill. Find a street with virtually no traffic, two blocks long, run in the street. Sprint a block, jog a block, turn around and do it again. Do this for 20 minutes. Or on the treadmill run 6 minute mile for 2 minutes, jog for 1, or whatever is hard but doesn't kill you and that you can do a number of repeats. Depending on your current fitness level you may need to wait until you can job for 30 minutes straight.

I am in a running group and my wife and the group ran on Sat., it was 3F out and had snowed, they ran 5 miles. I went to the gym and ran 6, just didn't want to deal with it. I think she called me something as she got up at 7 on Sat. and I was still asleep.
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      01-10-2017, 02:21 PM   #8
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-high intensity interval training
-body weight exercises that incorporate multiple muscle groups
-strengthen your hip flexors
High intensity interval training has worked best to build my "explosiveness"

Try doing the elliptical for cardio 45-60 minutes, try not to use your hands to balance.


I'm 5'9 205-208lbs (used to weight 330)
With my body type i need to do cardio everyday.
Went from not being able to do the elliptical for more than 5 minutes to being able to keep a sustained heart rate of 160-175 for 65 minutes.
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      01-10-2017, 02:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
Yeah Im also trying to get my stamina up. When i said i havent done much cardio in awhile, i meant it. I was dying in the warmups the other day, and it was also probably the most ive ran combined in a few years.

Ive been doing sprints at least once per week, if not twice depending on the weather. Hard to run sprints when theres snow everywhere. I can at least run distances on the treadmill.



I was a sprinter in school, and have always been a better sprinter than distance guy, so I think eventually, ill get those legs back under me. The running a mile or 2 is more for conditioning so I dont pass out while playing.

My biggest issue is coming up with a legit workout/lifting plan for this. For 10+ years my lifting goals have been bigger/stronger, not necessarily athletic goals. Ive already cut weight down from 200/205 and will probably cut another 10 lbs which should help with speed as well.

Ive read a few articles saying that you should be doing more Olympic lifts vs what you consider "normal" lifts to build athleticism. Any experience in that?
If you google players that play your position, you should be able to find their workouts - though secret things that give them the edge...
One thing just about all the players do is sports massage - seriously a big factor.
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      01-10-2017, 02:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
I am a runner so I understand this part better than the rest (5k's, 10k's, half and full marathons, and over 25 years).

If you want to build stamina, forget the 1-2 mile runs every day. Do it every other day and stay on the treadmill or outside for 30 minutes. If this means jogging slowly or run/walking (run 2 minutes/walk 1 or some other interval but the same throughout the whole 30 minutes) you will build endurance far more than running for 8-16 minutes every day (and total exercise time will be less than doing it everyday). This will also work better than the 30-60 minutes on a stationary bike.

If or when you can jog 30 minutes straight then you can do this 2 days a week and then do some type of interval training starting at 1 day a week.

Also, if talking about interval training you can do it in any weather or on the treadmill. Find a street with virtually no traffic, two blocks long, run in the street. Sprint a block, jog a block, turn around and do it again. Do this for 20 minutes. Or on the treadmill run 6 minute mile for 2 minutes, jog for 1, or whatever is hard but doesn't kill you and that you can do a number of repeats. Depending on your current fitness level you may need to wait until you can job for 30 minutes straight.

I am in a running group and my wife and the group ran on Sat., it was 3F out and had snowed, they ran 5 miles. I went to the gym and ran 6, just didn't want to deal with it. I think she called me something as she got up at 7 on Sat. and I was still asleep.
Ive been doing some low intensity cardio every day (30minutes - hour on the treadmill or stationary bike). Been trying to get interval training going but my treadmill is crap and trips out if I get going too fast. Im going to try a new gym and see if they have an indoor track. When it snows, the sidewalks/roads are snow covered for days so it hinders any outdoors running. When its nice on the weekends, I do 40yd sprints with a backwards jog in between at the park by my house. Started with 5, working my way up. Also do agility drills (3 cone, shuttle, etc.) just to work on that aspect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 714_1er View Post
-high intensity interval training
-body weight exercises that incorporate multiple muscle groups
-strengthen your hip flexors
High intensity interval training has worked best to build my "explosiveness"

Try doing the elliptical for cardio 45-60 minutes, try not to use your hands to balance.


I'm 5'9 205-208lbs (used to weight 330)
With my body type i need to do cardio everyday.
Went from not being able to do the elliptical for more than 5 minutes to being able to keep a sustained heart rate of 160-175 for 65 minutes.
Thats a legit transformation. Congrats. Ill have to bust out my elliptical and see what I can do. Havent used it since we got it about a year ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
If you google players that play your position, you should be able to find their workouts - though secret things that give them the edge...
One thing just about all the players do is sports massage - seriously a big factor.
Yeah thats how I found some workouts, but most those guys have been at that high level of athleticism for awhile. One day of their training would kill me for a week.

Ive done sports massages in the past, ill have to call up my former masseuse. Unfortunately she doesnt do happy endings though.
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      01-10-2017, 03:09 PM   #11
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csu87 I'm sending you a private message
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      01-10-2017, 03:29 PM   #12
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Someone mentioned it above, you need some sports massage. And it seems you would have ready access also to some cold therapy. Sitting in that cold water, or possibly snow with sweats on AFTER your workouts could help you with recovery and protecting those 30 yo joints.

And you (and others) may laugh, but give yoga a chance.
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      01-10-2017, 05:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Someone mentioned it above, you need some sports massage. And it seems you would have ready access also to some cold therapy. Sitting in that cold water, or possibly snow with sweats on AFTER your workouts could help you with recovery and protecting those 30 yo joints.

And you (and others) may laugh, but give yoga a chance.
Actually hot yoga (bikram) would be great to get you loosened up again. If I remember correctly didn't Aaron Rogers start hot yoga a few seasons ago and was a monster that year that he had started?
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      01-10-2017, 05:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
Unfortunately she doesnt do happy endings though.
Well, it's been a while....maybe she misses you and wants your business again . Doesn't hurt to ask lol
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      01-12-2017, 01:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csu87 View Post
Well, before I hit 30, I decided it would be a good idea (not the best idea) to try out for a Semi Pro Football Team in my area. on the team now after a lackluster tryout, but good football awareness and I need to start training so I dont look like the old guy out there.

Im 5-9, 195lbs. Background on me is I have been weight training for years, with little cardio, and have gotten very stiff (Back, Knees, Hips) and have lost all explosiveness I had back in the day. Recently started running everyday, ~1-2miles depending on how cold it is, as well as doing 30minutes - 1hr on a stationary bike and doing about 15-20 minutes of core exercises. Do roughly 1.5-2hrs of working out a day.

Weekly Routine is
1 Day Chest/Arms - Regular, Incline, Decline Bench 5x5, Close Dumbell Regular/Incline, Flys, Tris, Bis
1 Day Back - Deadlift 5x5, Rows, Pull Downs, Reverse Flys
1 Day Shoulders/Arms - Dumbell Overhead, Arnold Press, "Circuit" with 4 lifts x5 for 4 sets with 60 seconds rest, tris, bis
1 Day Legs - Squats 8x5, Leg Press 5x5
1 Day Chest/Shoulders/Arms - Regular, Incline, Overhead press, Tris, Bis
Weekends are either all cardio or half cardio/half core. Ill do some sprints and agility drills as well.

My question is, what are other guys doing for more of an athletic training vs strength/size training? More Olympic Lifting? Crossfit?

Ive read and researched several routines that I may start trying, but if someone has some good experience, Id rather start with that vs jumping in blindly till I find something that works.
For explosiveless, start crossfit/olympic weightlifting.

I don't play football but my speed has greatly increased since transitioning from powerlifting.

People talk shit about crossfit, but I have never been stronger, faster, or more conditioned in my entire life.
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      01-12-2017, 07:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
I am a runner so I understand this part better than the rest (5k's, 10k's, half and full marathons, and over 25 years).

If you want to build stamina, forget the 1-2 mile runs every day. Do it every other day and stay on the treadmill or outside for 30 minutes. If this means jogging slowly or run/walking (run 2 minutes/walk 1 or some other interval but the same throughout the whole 30 minutes) you will build endurance far more than running for 8-16 minutes every day (and total exercise time will be less than doing it everyday). This will also work better than the 30-60 minutes on a stationary bike.

If or when you can jog 30 minutes straight then you can do this 2 days a week and then do some type of interval training starting at 1 day a week.

Also, if talking about interval training you can do it in any weather or on the treadmill. Find a street with virtually no traffic, two blocks long, run in the street. Sprint a block, jog a block, turn around and do it again. Do this for 20 minutes. Or on the treadmill run 6 minute mile for 2 minutes, jog for 1, or whatever is hard but doesn't kill you and that you can do a number of repeats. Depending on your current fitness level you may need to wait until you can job for 30 minutes straight.

I am in a running group and my wife and the group ran on Sat., it was 3F out and had snowed, they ran 5 miles. I went to the gym and ran 6, just didn't want to deal with it. I think she called me something as she got up at 7 on Sat. and I was still asleep.
Op,

The above is a legit, results focused running work out. This will make you better conditioned and faster, guaranteed.

Pro endurance athletes don't train by mileage they train by time. Training by time makes perfect sense for you since you play a timed game with a typically number of snaps.

In addition to your strength and conditioning you need to work on speed and agility drills. Up, back, side to side, etc... Look up football agility drills.

Plenty of these out there..... and they work.

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      01-12-2017, 07:37 PM   #17
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Crossfit and yoga..... and throw in some jujutsu.
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      01-12-2017, 09:24 PM   #18
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I trained my college roommate for a nfl tryout. Speed you can't teach you have it or you don't. I wouldn't focus on the things you really have no control over. I didn't read really thorough, but I'm not sure what position your trying out for. Slot or db I'm guessing by your body type. You can get stronger, you can work on your hands, you can work on your route running so on so forth. At your age i would focus on the one or two things you do really well and improve on those. You don't really have the time to become complete.
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      01-13-2017, 10:23 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
Op,

The above is a legit, results focused running work out. This will make you better conditioned and faster, guaranteed.

Pro endurance athletes don't train by mileage they train by time. Training by time makes perfect sense for you since you play a timed game with a typically number of snaps.

In addition to your strength and conditioning you need to work on speed and agility drills. Up, back, side to side, etc... Look up football agility drills.

Plenty of these out there..... and they work.
Yep, started doing agility drills a few weeks ago. Its definitely helping. Just destroys my knee if i take them too fast. need to get that strengthened up. In regards to training by time. the 1-2 miles was as long as i could go at a high level, so thats why i went by distance. I still ride a stationary bike, elliptical or slow jog on a treadmill for 30-60 minutes/day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scostu View Post
Crossfit and yoga..... and throw in some jujutsu.
Ive been doing yoga with the wife the last couple days. Who knew it was that challenging? I think it will definitely help with flexibility though. in lieu of crossfit, ive gone to more olympic lifting. Cleans, snatch, etc. Gives my body a full explosive workout vs area specific.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kprocivic View Post
I trained my college roommate for a nfl tryout. Speed you can't teach you have it or you don't. I wouldn't focus on the things you really have no control over. I didn't read really thorough, but I'm not sure what position your trying out for. Slot or db I'm guessing by your body type. You can get stronger, you can work on your hands, you can work on your route running so on so forth. At your age i would focus on the one or two things you do really well and improve on those. You don't really have the time to become complete.
Yes, DB. I was fast in HS/College, but a knee injury slowed me down some, + a decade of drinking. Hands are great with the new gloves they got out there too. With these gloves, there is no excuse for an NFL player to ever drop a ball that they can get a hand on. I was even making Odell style catches out there.

Biggest thing i need to work on is conditioning and speed. Like i said, was fast in HS/College (4.4 fast), so i think with enough training i can get to a respectable level (4.6/4.7). Considering the one i ran at 5.01 was the 1st real 40 ive ran in 10 years, im sure i can not a few tenths off it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntDX316 View Post
If you want to be better overall then you need to do other exercises than strength. Functional exercises such as segmental stabilization exercises. Separate the upper torso from the lower. They should be working independant and the 1 leg standing. I think strength training if not sport specific is really for the look but the function can mean nothing w/o the proper transision timings working in harmony.

There are a lot of driver specific trainings out on the intenet to make anyone a better driver.
I did work in some single leg exercises this week. It is more to do with strengthening a bad knee, but Ill see what else I can do for stabilization exercises.
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      01-13-2017, 11:46 AM   #20
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Yep, started doing agility drills a few weeks ago. Its definitely helping. Just destroys my knee if i take them too fast. need to get that strengthened up. In regards to training by time. the 1-2 miles was as long as i could go at a high level, so thats why i went by distance. I still ride a stationary bike, elliptical or slow jog on a treadmill for 30-60 minutes/day.

I trained with an ex pro ball player for a year or so about 15 years ago. I'd never ran a 40 before training with him. At the start of training i ran a 5.9, after a year i was down to 5.1 and we only trained 1 hour a week doing mostly speed and agility. Two other days of the week i would be at the gym lifting moderate weight and doing 20 min on an elliptical. I've got a dogey knee as well. Doing the speed and agility drills really strengthened those intrinsic muscles that are hard to hit at the gym which made my knees much more stable allowing me to cut harder and faster.

With the trainer we would never do more than 10 minutes of sustained running. But it would always involve some type of cone drill during those 10 min. He set up a large square 50x50 yards. Then make an X in the middle with some cone drills. We'd basically make angular figure 8s in alternating directions. On some of the outer sections we'd sprint, jog or even walk but the sections making the X were always done at the same pace and involved some sort of footwork drill in the middle. We'd start the hour with 10 min warm up and end the day with a body weight only lunge/squat circuit. Best all around shape i've ever been in.
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      01-13-2017, 01:41 PM   #21
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If you're goal is to be explosive, the last thing that you want to do is Yoga. There are other ways to gain flexibility besides doing Yoga. Look up Kelly Starrett and his books/youtube videos or RomWOD.com and you can gain flexibility fast using mobility exercises. Every workout should contain a warmup that consists of mobility exercises.

Training Yoga will stimulate your body to shift to slow twitch muscle fibers, essentially backpedaling your ability to be explosive. You need to train heavy with the big 3 lifts, as well as the olympic lifts in order to stimulate fast twitch muscle fiber growth. Incorporate agility, sprints, box jumps and rowing for your conditioning.

Do Crossfit.
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      01-14-2017, 12:18 PM   #22
PoorLurker
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I would think box jumps, standing long jumps, and explosiveness training would be your best bet.

Olympic lifts would probably be a great addition as they are about explosiveness.

Flexibility, flexibility, flexibility
Agility, agility, agility

Start over on your agility training and focus on developing the right mechanics for each drill.
By that I mean, slow it down to the point where you can get all the necessary muscles to fire at the same time when you are moving from one direction to the other. Get it to the point where you can even feel your toes being a part of the movement as well.

At least this last part about the mechanics makes sense in my mind. (using every muscle possible to help)
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