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      02-09-2007, 10:58 PM   #45
ganeil
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Originally Posted by snawaz View Post
So its ok then to take over a country belonging to others and called it your own.

I like how you talk about european settlers and not ethnic cleansing. Remember how america had to be rid of the indian savages!
You say the american indians controlled areas of america. The majority of america as it stands today is unpopulated, how would your government react if someone powerful enough came in and "settled" (as you put it) on those unpopulated areas. Would your government call them settlers? I think not? Knowing George Dubya he'd probably call them "the wrongdoers", and then go on to anihilate them.
I am sorry that the world doesn't work they way your fantasy world does. Most every nation on Earth exists in its current form because one group of people fought and defeated another group. You may not like it but that is the way it is. If another group of people want to settle the US, they will have to fight and win.
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      02-09-2007, 11:42 PM   #46
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Please get your facts straight. First, 250k is a little high, according to Wikipedia it's 214k. Second, those people did not die "in an instant" they died in two separate bombings days apart and then for years afterward from the radiation.

Also, as ganeil said, look at the Battle of Okinawa as a smaller scale example of what an invasion of the Japanese mainland would have been like. 140k civilians (no military deaths included in that number) died in that battle alone, the same as were killed by the first atomic bomb. Now imagine more battles like that and it's not hard to see that the bombs saved more lives than they took.
The comment above can only come from the 17-yr-old...
Just like that approving a mass murder of 200k innocent...
Ridiculous...
And what could have happened...I guess we will never find out...
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      02-09-2007, 11:45 PM   #47
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You're right, no need to learn any facts when you have anecdotes.

You are sad, I am embarrassed to say we scored the same on the LSAT.
Talking to the survivers and people that lived in those times will always be more powerful to me than reading some propaganda material...later called "the facts".
As for the LSAT -- anyone can score that on the test, and anyone can easily miss it... Does not make me more or less smart because of the score...
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      02-10-2007, 12:17 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
The comment above can only come from the 17-yr-old...
Just like that approving a mass murder of 200k innocent...
Ridiculous...
And what could have happened...I guess we will never find out...
Choice:
1) Drop a bomb and kill 200k civilians.
2) Invade Japan and kill more civilians than that and lose tens (hundreds?) thousands more soldiers on both sides. Remember that Japanese civilians were training to fight off the invasion as well.

Also, my age should have nothing to do with my comments. ex. Einstein developed his theories in his 20s
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shit, if i had that kind of money id buy a gtstreet for monday, an ascari a10 for tuesday, a DBS for wednesday and id just ride jessica alba the rest of the week.
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      02-10-2007, 12:35 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by FirstClass View Post
Choice:
1) Drop a bomb and kill 200k civilians.
2) Invade Japan and kill more civilians than that and lose tens (hundreds?) thousands more soldiers on both sides. Remember that Japanese civilians were training to fight off the invasion as well.

Also, my age should have nothing to do with my comments. ex. Einstein developed his theories in his 20s
OK Einsttein...
How about 3rd (civilized) option ... cut them off, they are on a freikin island, you have the whole world backing you.
Then pressure them into negotiation...

Explore...before using force of that size.
Again...we will never know for certain if those 200k people were just another experiment for the leaders over here...
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      02-10-2007, 12:41 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
OK Einsttein...
How about 3rd (civilized) option ... cut them off, they are on a freikin island, you have the whole world backing you.
Then pressure them into negotiation...

Explore...before using force of that size.
Again...we will never know for certain if those 200k people were just another experiment for the leaders over here...
So make the whole island starve while the remnants of their air force kamikaze our carriers? Yeah, great idea.
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shit, if i had that kind of money id buy a gtstreet for monday, an ascari a10 for tuesday, a DBS for wednesday and id just ride jessica alba the rest of the week.
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      02-10-2007, 12:48 AM   #51
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So make the whole island starve while the remnants of their air force kamikaze our carriers? Yeah, great idea.
Starve?
Are you telling me that before that we were supplying them with food???
I think Japan could have survived for a few months on their own (food)...

This way we supplied "cooked" stuff I guess...
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      02-10-2007, 01:40 AM   #52
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Starve?
Are you telling me that before that we were supplying them with food???
I think Japan could have survived for a few months on their own (food)...

This way we supplied "cooked" stuff I guess...
No, I'm saying a blockade wouldn't make them surrender until they were starving. Thats the way a blockade works, starve your enemy into submission. Also, I think they could have grown enough to feed themselves for quite a while, though I'm not terribly familiar with Japan's agriculture.
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shit, if i had that kind of money id buy a gtstreet for monday, an ascari a10 for tuesday, a DBS for wednesday and id just ride jessica alba the rest of the week.
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      02-10-2007, 04:17 AM   #53
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It seems that any thread on any forum with "Iran" in the title ends with a terribly hostile debate.
As an Iranian/American with dual citizenship, I am hurt.
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      02-10-2007, 04:26 AM   #54
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It seems that any thread on any forum with "Iran" in the title ends with a terribly hostile debate.
As an Iranian/American with dual citizenship, I am hurt.
you must have had that a real long time for that to even exist.
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      02-10-2007, 04:36 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by FirstClass View Post
Please get your facts straight. First, 250k is a little high, according to Wikipedia it's 214k. Second, those people did not die "in an instant" they died in two separate bombings days apart and then for years afterward from the radiation.

Also, as ganeil said, look at the Battle of Okinawa as a smaller scale example of what an invasion of the Japanese mainland would have been like. 140k civilians (no military deaths included in that number) died in that battle alone, the same as were killed by the first atomic bomb. Now imagine more battles like that and it's not hard to see that the bombs saved more lives than they took.
fyi, the Japanese killed an estimated 300,000 innocent civilians in China during what's called the Nanjing Massacre over the course of 6 weeks in 1937-1938. They entered the city and just slaughtered everyone they see (men, women, children, random people). The japanese soldiers gang raped women, made sons rape their mothers, make fathers rape their daughters, used civilians as live bayonette practice dummies, soldiers will have friendly races to see who murders the most Chinese in a day, etc...my grand mother still tells me the horrors in China when the Japanese invaded and the suffering people had to go through

these types of events proves that the Japanese needed to be defeated with absolute and overwhelming force and the A-bomb proves that fact very effectively

i dont personally hate any japanese people, i just hated their government at the time for doing nothing, and their government isn't that much better now with their heads of state still worshiping the war criminals who conducted acts like Nanjing Massacre
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      02-10-2007, 05:57 AM   #56
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      02-10-2007, 06:41 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Many times...
ANyway...aren't you the one freaking out a few days ago and in the middle of some battle...telling us how bad it is...
But then, all of the sudden you'r constantly on-line?
Are you hiding at Starbucks in Baghdad or something?
im the one who is not there ........ but i care about those who are ...(and i will be as soon as i get the call).... and i dont think you should badmouth them ................ anyway, let me get this right you dont think we should make enough money to be able to buy a bmw ....... and now you dont think we should be able to be online ........... what do you think we should do?? its a new world doc even we (scum of the earth) are able to access al gores internet ........... you can invent and patent shit and make the time to be online ............ you dont think i can find time between mindlessly following orders and .....well mindlessly following orders (cause thats all we do right) to go online ........ its a new world..... we can mutitask now
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      02-10-2007, 10:21 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by ehhhwik View Post
fyi, the Japanese killed an estimated 300,000 innocent civilians in China during what's called the Nanjing Massacre over the course of 6 weeks in 1937-1938. They entered the city and just slaughtered everyone they see (men, women, children, random people). The japanese soldiers gang raped women, made sons rape their mothers, make fathers rape their daughters, used civilians as live bayonette practice dummies, soldiers will have friendly races to see who murders the most Chinese in a day, etc...my grand mother still tells me the horrors in China when the Japanese invaded and the suffering people had to go through

these types of events proves that the Japanese needed to be defeated with absolute and overwhelming force and the A-bomb proves that fact very effectively

i dont personally hate any japanese people, i just hated their government at the time for doing nothing, and their government isn't that much better now with their heads of state still worshiping the war criminals who conducted acts like Nanjing Massacre
So, because they murdered 300k Chinese, that gives us right to murder 250k of them? Same analogy in Iraq -- insurgency kills 3000 of our soldiers, so we're free to kill thousands of Iraqis (Colleteral Damage)??? In that case, with that analogy, what happened on 911 is just a small number as compared to what we did???
I disagree with that analogy. That is how it works in the dictatorship systems, not the "carrying, democratic" systems like one we promote...
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      02-10-2007, 10:28 AM   #59
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im the one who is not there ........ but i care about those who are ...(and i will be as soon as i get the call).... and i dont think you should badmouth them ................ anyway, let me get this right you dont think we should make enough money to be able to buy a bmw ....... and now you dont think we should be able to be online ........... what do you think we should do?? its a new world doc even we (scum of the earth) are able to access al gores internet ........... you can invent and patent shit and make the time to be online ............ you dont think i can find time between mindlessly following orders and .....well mindlessly following orders (cause thats all we do right) to go online ........ its a new world..... we can mutitask now
You keep shoving words in my mouth...very common thing of my opposing side...
We all should care about people doing their job the way they should. I really do not care about those idiots from the video in Abu Ghraib prison, for example. But I do care about the kid next door that has been over there for past 6 months.
Yes, I do agree that our (professional) military should get the benefits, and driving a Bimmer may be the priority for you, your problem, your choice.
As for the Internet, I never said you should NEVER be on it...but being there all the time, while doing your job, or so...not sure about it.
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      02-10-2007, 11:27 PM   #60
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If you believe that George W. Bush wants to wipe Iraq, Iran, or Korea off the face of the Earth, answer me one question - Why are they still here?

There is absolutely NOTHING stopping the President from doing just that.
How about the US congress? I am sure they would have a thing or two to say about it. Anyways there is no oil ($$$) in NK so it will not happen because there is no motivation.
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      02-10-2007, 11:44 PM   #61
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So, because they murdered 300k Chinese, that gives us right to murder 250k of them? Same analogy in Iraq -- insurgency kills 3000 of our soldiers, so we're free to kill thousands of Iraqis (Colleteral Damage)??? In that case, with that analogy, what happened on 911 is just a small number as compared to what we did???
I disagree with that analogy. That is how it works in the dictatorship systems, not the "carrying, democratic" systems like one we promote...
no, it does not give the right to americans to kill 250k of japanese. the US used Atomic bomb because it was a preventive measure to avoid an American ground invasion of the Japanese mainland which would kill probably millions of Japanese and American soldiers and also because of Russia's reluctance to assist the Americans if there was going to such ground invasion

the japanese did not kill 300k Chinese to prevent anything, it was cold blooded murder of innocent men, women and children
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      02-11-2007, 12:00 AM   #62
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no, it does not give the right to americans to kill 250k of japanese. the US used Atomic bomb because it was a preventive measure to avoid an American ground invasion of the Japanese mainland which would kill probably millions of Japanese and American soldiers and also because of Russia's reluctance to assist the Americans if there was going to such ground invasion

the japanese did not kill 300k Chinese to prevent anything, it was cold blooded murder of innocent men, women and children
WOW, next you're going to tell me that thanks to the US the Germans were defeated in the WW2...

As for the murder...some can claim the same during the bombings of Serbia, Bosnia, and now almost 1/2 a mil Iraqis are dead...a lot of "colleteral damage" in those three examples...
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      02-11-2007, 12:03 AM   #63
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I like this argument. You say the state of israel is as legitimate a state as any other nation in the world. I would say as legitimate a state as america is. Or say the state of california is. How fortuitous that the europeans discovered the land of the americas. A so called discovered land that was already inhabited by the "red indians" and the incas. How you distort history my friend.
Can someone tell me WTF Muslims in America and UK are so freakin obsessed about what is going on in Israel?? I am a Pakstani Christian and Christians in Pakistan are consistently victimized, Churchs are burned etc...you don’t see me blowing myself and killing Muslims to protest this...you want tolerance but yet you are intolerant...first look at yourselves before you scream about America's hypocrisy..
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      02-11-2007, 12:06 AM   #64
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Can someone tell me WTF Muslims in America and UK are so freakin obsessed about what is going on in Israel?? I am a Pakstani Christian and Christians in Pakistan are consistently victimized, Churchs are burned etc...you donít see me blowing myself and killing Muslims to protest this...you want tolerance but yet you are intolerant...first look at yourselves before you scream at America's hypocrisy..
Although I strongly disagree with both approaches -- Israeli and Palestinian, the explanation to your observation is simple -- Israel has one of the most powerful Armies in the World, palestinians have rifles and explosives, that is about it. So, they use what they have to fight for their cause (that is positivein their minds).
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      02-11-2007, 05:13 PM   #65
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WOW, next you're going to tell me that thanks to the US the Germans were defeated in the WW2...
How can you argue otherwise?
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shit, if i had that kind of money id buy a gtstreet for monday, an ascari a10 for tuesday, a DBS for wednesday and id just ride jessica alba the rest of the week.
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      02-11-2007, 05:45 PM   #66
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How can you argue otherwise?
The turn in WW2 began when Hitler was too eager to conquer Moscow, no matter what. Russians were the first ones to kick them out...
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