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      12-02-2010, 11:16 PM   #23
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I want an M3 soooooo bad.
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      12-02-2010, 11:23 PM   #24
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All I can say is that I too would hate to see my M3 go byebye. I have not driven the Volt, and wonder how many of the FUD-peddlers actually have.
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      12-02-2010, 11:46 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by quiksi View Post
I take their "car of the year" not as the "best" car, but the "most significant" car of the year for various reasons
Yup. And keep in mind, up until recently, it was domestic vehicles only. Import car of the year was a separate deal. Somewhere along the line, things changed, I think due to manufacturing location. Either way, there are some dogs in there.
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      12-02-2010, 11:55 PM   #26
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I've only driven an M3 briefly, at BMW Canada driving school. Got to drift it, got to autocross it - great fun, even better in someone else's M3. I would love to buy one before they stop making the current V8 model....maybe even pick it up at the factory.

BTW - don't buy any 1 year old, black, CPO M3 coupes that are from BMW Canada fleet.
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      12-03-2010, 01:42 AM   #27
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why are all those COTY american cars? I guess I am one of the few that actually thinks the Volt deserves the COTY title more then anything else out there. Sure its not a true electric car (but its also not a hybrid...), but the concept is the perfect car for 90% of people whose daily commute is less then 45 miles or so. Plus, when was the last time GM turned out a car with that level of engineering sophistication? COTY doesn't have to be the best car, much less the car an enthusiast would want to own, but probably needs to be the years most significant car....I think it most definitely is.

M3 really is a special car - I cant think of any other cars below 100k that blend being a "real drivers car" with the polish and premium feel of the M3. I am coming out of an M6 before I got my e93, and aside for having a little more sack in a straight line, the M3 blows it apart in terms of handling and road feel. I think its not the ultimate performance capabilities of the M3 that are so amazing on a daily basis (its hard to play schumacher every day..) but its the incredible feel of the car -- steering, brakes, the sound of the engine, etc...

Here's to hoping BMW doesnt F*CK the next one up like they have done with new 5 (at least from an enthusiasts perspective.)
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      12-03-2010, 01:57 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmehta211 View Post
Agreed---nothing against the M3 but here is a list of their earlier cars of the year: (Caprice, Malibu, PT cruiser???)

2002 Ford Thunderbird
2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser
2000 Lincoln LS
1999 Chrysler 300M
1998 Chevrolet Corvette
1997 Chevrolet Malibu
1996 Dodge Caravan
1995 Chrysler Cirrus
1994 Ford Mustang
1993 Ford Probe GT
1992 Cadillac Seville Touring Sedan
1991 Chevrolet Caprice Classic LTZ
1990 Lincoln Town Car
1989 Ford Thunderbird SC
1988 Pontiac Grand Prix
1987 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
1986 Ford Taurus LX
And every one of them American. Where's my BS flag smiley when I need it?
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      12-03-2010, 02:09 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyd1961 View Post
everything so well said right up to the Alfa. i had the 1974 GTV piece of junk. chased alfa out of the country.
Couple of things to clear up the confusion re: my choice of Alfa Romeo [to everyone else I know I am but this is obviously important to clear up so do forgive my digression and bear with me...]

The Alfa Romeo model I referred to is not just any Alfa from the bygone era of the 70's, but in fact a limited edition bespoke 500 unit model run developed for some of the world's most highly regarded car collectors. Case in point: The first American-market 8C was seen in November 2008, wearing "001 USA" registration plates. The car was purchased by film director and stock exchange magnate James Glickenhaus, also known for being the owner of the bespoke and absolutely insane Enzo-based Ferrari P4/5.

Racing pedigree: The 8C Competizione was introduced at the Frankfurt Motor Show in 2003. The lines of the twin seater are meant to echo the styling of Alfas of the 1950s and 1960s, and the "Competizione" name is a reference to the 1948 6C 2500 Competizione, which competed in the 1949 and 1950 Mille Miglia race and came third both times.

An 8C Competizione was featured on the main sculpture at the 2010 Goodwood Festival of Speed. Probably one of the most exclusive annual car events in Europe.

Powertrain: The car uses a modified Maserati platform and powertrain and features a Ferrari/Maserati derived 90 degree cross-plane wet sump lubricated 4.7-litre V8 assembled by Ferrari producing over 440hp, with a 7500 redline and capable of 190+ mph. The 6 speed transaxle electronic gearbox can shift in 175 milliseconds when using Sport mode. The 8C also has a limited slip differential.

Performance: It is fitted with specially developed 20 inch tires: 245/35 at the front and 285/35 at the rear, fitted on perforated rims in fluid moulded aluminium. The 8C brakes have been called "phenomenal" by Road & Track magazine, with a stopping distance of 32 metres (105.0 ft), when travelling at an initial speed of 60 mph.

But the above to me means absolutely nothing, nada, a big zero.

So why do I love the 8C Competizione? Because it is one of the most beautiful car designs I have seen in my life time; the word Timeless comes to mind. Obviously my very own biased opinion. It pays homage to its racing pedigree in a very modern way.

And the exhaust note the engine delivers is simply incredible. I would park this car in my living room and stare at it like a piece of art.

Exhibit A


Exhibit B


Exhibit C


Exhibit D | The 8C Competizione Spider version...


& finally...check out one of the most incredible exhaust notes known to mankind...well not quite but you'll get the point.



Case closed. Just so we are on the same page, I am still buying the M3 Sedan
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Last edited by OSK77; 12-03-2010 at 02:16 AM.
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      12-03-2010, 03:04 AM   #30
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Keep in mind someone mentioned MT's COTY was strictly domestic cars. It is tough to pick the best domestic car when they all suck... at least the volt is part electric, which is awesome. And also keep in mind, the '011 M3 was not named COTY, it was "WORLD'S GREATEST ALL-AROUND CAR" which is a much much higher status.
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      12-03-2010, 03:32 AM   #31
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Just about every automotive publications have said during past several years that E9x M3 is probably the world's greatest all-around car. And, why wouldn't it be, with its performance, looks, practicality, price, etc. And, that high-revving V8, what a motor!
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      12-03-2010, 04:19 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OSK77 View Post
Couple of things to clear up the confusion re: my choice of Alfa Romeo [to everyone else I know I am but this is obviously important to clear up so do forgive my digression and bear with me...]

The Alfa Romeo model I referred to is not just any Alfa from the bygone era of the 70's, but in fact a limited edition bespoke 500 unit model run developed for some of the world's most highly regarded car collectors. Case in point: The first American-market 8C was seen in November 2008, wearing "001 USA" registration plates. The car was purchased by film director and stock exchange magnate James Glickenhaus, also known for being the owner of the bespoke and absolutely insane Enzo-based Ferrari P4/5.

Racing pedigree: The 8C Competizione was introduced at the Frankfurt Motor Show in 2003. The lines of the twin seater are meant to echo the styling of Alfas of the 1950s and 1960s, and the "Competizione" name is a reference to the 1948 6C 2500 Competizione, which competed in the 1949 and 1950 Mille Miglia race and came third both times.

An 8C Competizione was featured on the main sculpture at the 2010 Goodwood Festival of Speed. Probably one of the most exclusive annual car events in Europe.

Powertrain: The car uses a modified Maserati platform and powertrain and features a Ferrari/Maserati derived 90 degree cross-plane wet sump lubricated 4.7-litre V8 assembled by Ferrari producing over 440hp, with a 7500 redline and capable of 190+ mph. The 6 speed transaxle electronic gearbox can shift in 175 milliseconds when using Sport mode. The 8C also has a limited slip differential.

Performance: It is fitted with specially developed 20 inch tires: 245/35 at the front and 285/35 at the rear, fitted on perforated rims in fluid moulded aluminium. The 8C brakes have been called "phenomenal" by Road & Track magazine, with a stopping distance of 32 metres (105.0 ft), when travelling at an initial speed of 60 mph.

But the above to me means absolutely nothing, nada, a big zero.

So why do I love the 8C Competizione? Because it is one of the most beautiful car designs I have seen in my life time; the word Timeless comes to mind. Obviously my very own biased opinion. It pays homage to its racing pedigree in a very modern way.

And the exhaust note the engine delivers is simply incredible. I would park this car in my living room and stare at it like a piece of art.

Exhibit A


Exhibit B


Exhibit C


Exhibit D | The 8C Competizione Spider version...


& finally...check out one of the most incredible exhaust notes known to mankind...well not quite but you'll get the point.



Case closed. Just so we are on the same page, I am still buying the M3 Sedan
my car was a beauty too but couldnt run. piece of crap
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      12-03-2010, 04:21 AM   #33
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Quote:
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I take their "car of the year" not as the "best" car, but the "most significant" car of the year for various reasons
car of the ear means nothing 1984 car of year chevy corvette. it was the worst vette ever i know i had a new vette everything went wrong starting at month 1 and continueing forever.
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      12-03-2010, 04:43 AM   #34
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Sorry, but that engine sounds good, but isn't overtly impressive...?
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      12-03-2010, 06:36 AM   #35
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Woohooooo woohooooo
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      12-03-2010, 06:38 AM   #36
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i love my 335i to death but while me and my family were in the accord last night an idiot with an M3 gun down the pedals and went flying through us and weaving through traffic and made the accord, me, and all my passengers shake to our knees and my dad said wow that will kill you're 335i! i said on a straight line to a quarter mile we can pretty much hang with it but on the track it will pretty much eat my car alive.

i just started influencing my dad about BMW and once he felt how the M3 just flew by us and how the exhaust sounded and making us feel the power without touching our car. i can definitely say one of the best all around cars in the world. specially if it is a sedan because it's still family friendly. if i can only read my dads mind at that time i think he was wondering why i got the 335 instead of the m3... let me tell you i can't afford the M3 then!
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      12-03-2010, 06:49 AM   #37
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A year seems like a short stint with such a great car - I agree - but they did knock out over 20k miles in that time!

Speaking of buying (or avoiding) CPO cars in Canada that formerly served as driving school mules, R&T and MotorTrend sell these fleet cars off at real deals. My buddy just picked up an R8 from Road & Track with 18,000 on the clock for less than 70k. They provided a proper servicing and tossed on new rubber.

I'm sure the 18,000 miles were well earned but with the exception of some atypical clutch drops for 0-60 times and sporadic track days for comparison tests, I doubt those guys are significantly harder on their cars than an enthusiastic M owner would be on a properly broken in M3. I'm sure the car mag guys have better maintenance too.
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      12-03-2010, 07:28 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OSK77 View Post
Couple of things to clear up the confusion re: my choice of Alfa Romeo [to everyone else I know I am but this is obviously important to clear up so do forgive my digression and bear with me...]

The Alfa Romeo model I referred to is not just any Alfa from the bygone era of the 70's, but in fact a limited edition bespoke 500 unit model run developed for some of the world's most highly regarded car collectors. Case in point: The first American-market 8C was seen in November 2008, wearing "001 USA" registration plates. The car was purchased by film director and stock exchange magnate James Glickenhaus, also known for being the owner of the bespoke and absolutely insane Enzo-based Ferrari P4/5.

Racing pedigree: The 8C Competizione was introduced at the Frankfurt Motor Show in 2003. The lines of the twin seater are meant to echo the styling of Alfas of the 1950s and 1960s, and the "Competizione" name is a reference to the 1948 6C 2500 Competizione, which competed in the 1949 and 1950 Mille Miglia race and came third both times.

An 8C Competizione was featured on the main sculpture at the 2010 Goodwood Festival of Speed. Probably one of the most exclusive annual car events in Europe.

Powertrain: The car uses a modified Maserati platform and powertrain and features a Ferrari/Maserati derived 90 degree cross-plane wet sump lubricated 4.7-litre V8 assembled by Ferrari producing over 440hp, with a 7500 redline and capable of 190+ mph. The 6 speed transaxle electronic gearbox can shift in 175 milliseconds when using Sport mode. The 8C also has a limited slip differential.

Performance: It is fitted with specially developed 20 inch tires: 245/35 at the front and 285/35 at the rear, fitted on perforated rims in fluid moulded aluminium. The 8C brakes have been called "phenomenal" by Road & Track magazine, with a stopping distance of 32 metres (105.0 ft), when travelling at an initial speed of 60 mph.

But the above to me means absolutely nothing, nada, a big zero.

So why do I love the 8C Competizione? Because it is one of the most beautiful car designs I have seen in my life time; the word Timeless comes to mind. Obviously my very own biased opinion. It pays homage to its racing pedigree in a very modern way.

And the exhaust note the engine delivers is simply incredible. I would park this car in my living room and stare at it like a piece of art.

Case closed. Just so we are on the same page, I am still buying the M3 Sedan
does your decision have anything to do with the 8C being $230K and sold out versus $65K for the M3?
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      12-03-2010, 08:30 AM   #39
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does your decision have anything to do with the 8C being $230K and sold out versus $65K for the M3?
Yea really this is what I was saying to myself , you can't have a more night and day comparison of cars. Here in the us the 8c is 300k and the m3 65k-70k don't see how your thinking about getting the alpha..
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      12-03-2010, 08:37 AM   #40
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That is exactly what it represents but I have to admit some of the cars that were chosen as COTY leave me scratching my head.

CA
A number of years ago, Motor Trend was caught red-handed basically selling the "COTY" award. They went around to all the manufacturers, and asked, "if we pick your car as COTY, how many pages of advertising will you buy this year?" When the expose hit the news, MT said the responses from the manufacturers had no impact on their COTY decision - they just wanted to know "for planning purposes." What a crock. I cancelled my MT subscription, and I've never subscribed again.
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      12-03-2010, 08:43 AM   #41
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A year seems like a short stint with such a great car - I agree - but they did knock out over 20k miles in that time!

Speaking of buying (or avoiding) CPO cars in Canada that formerly served as driving school mules, R&T and MotorTrend sell these fleet cars off at real deals. My buddy just picked up an R8 from Road & Track with 18,000 on the clock for less than 70k. They provided a proper servicing and tossed on new rubber.

I'm sure the 18,000 miles were well earned but with the exception of some atypical clutch drops for 0-60 times and sporadic track days for comparison tests, I doubt those guys are significantly harder on their cars than an enthusiastic M owner would be on a properly broken in M3. I'm sure the car mag guys have better maintenance too.
You have obviously never been to a press launch or manufacture sponsered trackday where the cars are supplied.I have been to many as both a guest and as an instructor and I would say that 90% of the automotive press have no clue about driving a performance car on a track.Personally I would never touch any car that was used for these kind of events as I have witnessed the abuse that happens to these cars.
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      12-03-2010, 09:06 AM   #42
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I think I was quoted out of context.

There is no comparison btw. the already sold out Alpha 8C and the M3. I would never compare the two, totally different cars and different price points.

The Alpha to me is a pipe dream aka Dream car and thus I mentioned it. Something I would get if I won the lottery and money was no object. The M3 is still attainable in the near future and I would be satisfied with it for years to come.

The reason I ended up digressing is because a fellow member was citing his probably accurate experience with a '74 Alfa and how the car was a disaster.

The M3 Sedan for me is the pinnacle of automotive engineering, no questions asked. It has been defined by Car and Driver as one of the world's best cars ever built. Who am I to argue with that statement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iMIAMI View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by karussell View Post
does your decision have anything to do with the 8C being $230K and sold out versus $65K for the M3?
Yea really this is what I was saying to myself , you can't have a more night and day comparison of cars. Here in the us the 8c is 300k and the m3 65k-70k don't see how your thinking about getting the alpha..
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      12-03-2010, 09:12 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by nmehta211 View Post

Agreed---nothing against the M3 but here is a list of their earlier cars of the year: (Caprice, Malibu, PT cruiser???)
Interesting that Cars OTY are all American made. Maybe the unions put pressure on the publisher Or the government is subsidizing the magazine.
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      12-03-2010, 10:03 AM   #44
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Interesting that Cars OTY are all American made. Maybe the unions put pressure on the publisher Or the government is subsidizing the magazine.
1983 COTY was a Renault Alliance, fine automobile that was..

Only thing I hope M/Ts "WORLD'S GREATEST ALL-AROUND CAR" label does is increase trade-in and resale prices
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