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      12-04-2010, 05:04 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Gains:
More weight comes from bigger wheels (in some cases), brakes, muffler and perhaps transmission enhancements (LSD, M3 tranny) - would you say about 50-75lbs or so?

Neutral:
Engine compartment looks all but the same. Bumpers are unknown. Interior probably the same.

Savings:
A few lbs are shaved from the aluminum suspension components. I'm guessing sunroof will not be standard (that's a 40lbs saving).

I give it the same as a 135i, or under 3400lbs.
If they nix the sunroof it should indeed be.

Let's be clear though. Curb weight vs. unladen weight

Unladen: includes a 90 per cent fuel tank filling, 68 kg for the driver and 7 kg for luggage. 135i unladen with 6MT is 3373 (DCT is 3439).

Curb weight is the same less driver and luggage. I prefer curb weight as a "standard", just my preference.

If they do not nix the sunfoor I don't think the 1M will have an unladen weight of less than 3400 lb by BMWs spec sheet.
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      12-04-2010, 05:25 PM   #24
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thoughts? yeah how can i compare the m3 to a 1 m when the 1m doesnt exist?
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      12-04-2010, 08:24 PM   #25
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Doesn't have 4 doors so big nope from me,... kid seat and all.

However, in its price range (which is rumored to be between 43k-53k), I'm not so sure thats the first coupe I would latch on to. Loaded Mustang GT at 43k, GT500 with comp package at 53k, used Cayman S that is lighter, or used Z06, or even a regular vette. The 1M is going to be pretty niche to BMW enthusiasts, less attractive to the average coupe buyer.

That being said, the stripper 1M will be a competative car. At 53K loaded however, not so much.
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      12-04-2010, 09:03 PM   #26
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Definitely, not a game changer at all. It will be a delight for people seeking something more than 135 with similar pocket size dimension, but M3 will hold its own against 1M since driving experience is completely different.

It will be heavier than the 135i which is close to 3400 lbs, which will put the actual 1M curb weight around 3500 lbs (1580 KG or so). The car has a souped up N54 x35 engine and identical redline of 7000 rpm so the hugely reduced redline and piston speeds for an M car change the visceral feel of the car.

All the reviews have said the induction, exhaust sound is disappointing for obvious reasons that it is a turbocharged engine. The engine seems to still lose steam past 5500 rpm much like the base N54 engine with similar characteristics.

Throttle response wise, I have read Chris Harris' impressions where he mentioned the throttle response only gets good near redline where the car is in full boost. At low revs, turbo lag is still pronounced.
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      12-04-2010, 10:43 PM   #27
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Quote:
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At its price, which will most likely be mid to high 50s
Mid to high 40s, you mean.

Handling wise, it has the capacity to be better than the M3, due to the lower weight and shorter wheelbase. Whether or not it will fulfill this promise remains to be seen.


I am perhaps one of the few who don't have any big problems with the N54 throttle response or general characteristics. At low revs it still scoots very well (albeit with some turbo lag) and at high revs (say track driving) the lag pretty much disappears. And for a car that's supposed to be a daily driver, you cannot argue with its around-town flexibility or fuel economy.

The deal breaker for getting a 135i, for me personally, was the handling not the engine.
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      12-05-2010, 07:02 PM   #28
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I just dont see the 1M being anything more than an alternative to someone who NEEDS a backseat over the other cars that are in the price range or near about.
Well, the Cayman S you were comparing it against starts at $62k, way over a loaded 1M will be. So we're talking about a mid 50s BMW or a 70k Cayman.

Even casting seating arrangement aside, I don't think many people will cross-shop.


But M3 owners (like me) will definitely cross-shop.
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      12-10-2010, 10:31 PM   #29
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thoughts?
Off course - how about horseradish?
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      12-11-2010, 08:55 PM   #30
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Love the interior..
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      12-11-2010, 10:14 PM   #31
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      12-12-2010, 01:39 AM   #32
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Apparently the "official" N'Ring time for the 1M is 8:12. Pretty solid considering its power to weight ratio is very close to the E46 M3 which turned in an 8:22.
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      12-12-2010, 09:16 PM   #33
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Love the interior..
I don't like the look of where BMW placed the nav screen. Looks like an afterthought. Also the eyebrow over the instrument cluster looks like the end of a surfboard. All it needs is a fin.
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      12-12-2010, 11:10 PM   #34
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Love the interior..
+1 I absolutely love the liberal use of alcantara in the interior. I hope they make the F3X M3 as sporty from the inside.

I love everything I've read/seen about the 1M except the motor. That being said, what more can we really expect for a base price of ~$46k. Plus there probably won't be a $1300 GGT like the M3. While I'm a bit bummed out about the lack of an M exclusive engine, I think this car will be an absolute blast to drive and a simple tune will make this thing a monster.
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      12-13-2010, 12:01 AM   #35
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Quote:
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Apparently the "official" N'Ring time for the 1M is 8:12. Pretty solid considering its power to weight ratio is very close to the E46 M3 which turned in an 8:22.
I would hope 10 years accounts for something. However, if you know anything about the standard E46 M3 you'll know its weak point is its brakes. Not ideal for laps on the ring.
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      12-13-2010, 02:23 AM   #36
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I would hope 10 years accounts for something. However, if you know anything about the standard E46 M3 you'll know its weak point is its brakes. Not ideal for laps on the ring.
Brakes for aggressive track laps have never really been strong on any generation of the M3. I had an E46 M3 but not for long and never get her to the track. I think the gains comparing the two is more from the chassis and suspension advanced as opposed to braking improvements. Just a hunch though.
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      12-13-2010, 03:38 AM   #37
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Quote:
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Love the interior..
I personally love it. Kind of reminds me of my ZHP but more modern with an idrive/nav
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      12-13-2010, 09:45 AM   #38
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Quote:
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Apparently the "official" N'Ring time for the 1M is 8:12. Pretty solid considering its power to weight ratio is very close to the E46 M3 which turned in an 8:22.
For me, the 8:12 shows that the 1M is pretty much on par with the current M3 on track, which is pretty damned impressive when you consider the power differential.

I am mentally giving the M3 an 8:10 around the 'Ring, since Walter Rohrl says that PSC+ sneakers are worth five seconds in that venue.

Amazing. I'm thinking the chassis may just be sublime, and for the first time in a long while, I'm excited about a new M offering.

Looking at the specs, it seems as if the baby M may come in at quite a bit less than 3400 pounds, which is heartwarming. Converting Euro weight specs to SAE (full tank, nobody aboard and no luggage) gives you just a hair over 3300 pounds. Then adding U.S. safety stuff will add a few pounds.

Say, 3350 or so? I find it hard to believe, but maybe?

Cool.

I also think the quarter mile time may be down at 13 flat or so, possibly tickling the high twelves, at just below 110 mph.
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      12-13-2010, 10:07 AM   #39
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Quote:
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For me, the 8:12 shows that the 1M is pretty much on par with the current M3 on track, which is pretty damned impressive when you consider the power differential.

I am mentally giving the M3 an 8:10 around the 'Ring, since Walter Rohrl says that PSC+ sneakers are worth five seconds in that venue.

Amazing. I'm thinking the chassis may just be sublime, and for the first time in a long while, I'm excited about a new M offering.

Looking at the specs, it seems as if the baby M may come in at quite a bit less than 3400 pounds, which is heartwarming. Converting Euro weight specs to SAE (full tank, nobody aboard and no luggage) gives you just a hair over 3300 pounds. Then adding U.S. safety stuff will add a few pounds.

Say, 3350 or so? I find it hard to believe, but maybe?

Cool.

I also think the quarter mile time may be down at 13 flat or so, possibly tickling the high twelves, at just below 110 mph.

My feelings echo yours. Although, some may consider the engine a disappointment I think the package, M package that is, will make it a wonderful car. Love the simple interior and the Alcantara. This car will be a lot of fun.
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      12-13-2010, 12:38 PM   #40
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At its price, which will most likely be mid to high 50s, I dont see it being as capable, as fun nor nearly as razor sharp and precise as a cayman S/boxster S, which can be had for slightly more. It will likely gain weight from the beefed up suspension, wheels, brakes, etc. And if it has a motor that is nothing more than a tuned 135 engine, i cant see it being too fun either.
The only thing it will have going for it over buying a better more pure car is its practicality...other than that I dont see it being all that great.
in another thread, the 1m was 45k vs 70k cayman s. that's a huge difference in price of 25k.
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      12-13-2010, 12:40 PM   #41
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Love the interior..
this car is epic inside/out especially the aggressive exterior. a tune.....and it's gonna be rocket.
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      12-13-2010, 01:15 PM   #42
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OK, loaded 1M is going to be 55K OTD. You can buy a new cayman S for ~65K, and even then, you can buy a used cayman S for in the 40s. Not even close to a 25K difference new vs new. Again, unless having a back seat is a must...this car will not be any type of real competition for what is probably the best drivers car in the world.
For the record, I LIKE the 1M, but dont see a 55K entry level car being worth it. And lets not forget...you can be sure dealers will be asking 10K over sticker for them.
I like the 1M too, especially attention to weight reduction. Still not in Cayman territory (3,000 lbs) but a good move in the right direction (about time too)!

But you're right, a nicely equipped Cayman S with around 12K-14K miles (Gen I) can be had in many cases for under 40K. Gen II in the low 40s. New around 65k if you don't go nuts on the insanely overpriced options.

Buy a nice used Gen II, put some camber plates (to correct the silly lack of decent camber adjustment) and TPC bars on it and you'll still be out the door for much less and have a car that sticks like glue (go-kart like) while still being very comfortable on the street.

Or, buy a cheaper Gen I (unless you plan to track it extensively) and slap a TPC turbo kit on it (~15K including install). The turbo puts out 485 HP which takes things to another level.

Last edited by Finnegan; 12-13-2010 at 01:22 PM.
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      12-13-2010, 02:03 PM   #43
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OK, loaded 1M is going to be 55K OTD. You can buy a new cayman S for ~65K,
But you're comparing a loaded car vs. a base car - standard equipment is at least as good in the 1M as in the Cayman. So option for option, we are talking in fact about at minimum $20k difference in price.


Quote:
and even then, you can buy a used cayman S for in the 40s. Not even close to a 25K difference new vs new.
But what's the point of comparing a used car with a new one? It makes no sense whatsoever. Here's an example: If I wanted a razor sharp track car for $45k or less, I'd buy a nice used E46 M3 (they can be had for $15k-18k with one owner) and then throw a Moton suspension at it with some AP Racing brakes to match, wheels/tires and top it off with a supercharger, just for fun. Something like this would blow everything into the weeds except for a GT3, and retain the back seats.

I don't think you fully understand the main reason people buy BMW's - it's because at heart, they are useful daily cars. They mostly feature 4-5 seats, are comfortable (even the M versions) and yet posses a level of driver involvement or satisfaction that no other sedan has.

And guess what, they work pretty well even on a racetrack. Some better than others naturally, but they don't disgrace themselves.

So yes, we do need the back seats or yes, these are our daily drivers so we cannot take a bone rattling suspension. Or both.

Quote:
For the record, I LIKE the 1M, but dont see a 55K entry level car being worth it.
For the record, as an entry level car it's a $45k proposition, not $55k. Entry level means no options.

Unless of course by entry level you mean the cheapest model in the range - that's where the Cayman comes in as well.

Quote:
And lets not forget...you can be sure dealers will be asking 10K over sticker for them.
Please, stop. I get it, you are not a fan - but you aren't objective about this, not by a long shot. In every post you make you stack up the odds against the 1M (or any BMW for that matter) - if it's a question of price, you compare loaded BMW vs. bare bones Porsche. Or talk used Porsches. Or discover that no matter what else it's still not as sharp. Or like here, anticipate absurd dealer markups - guess what, not going to happen here in my area, besides which, I'll still get my Euro discount from my favorite BMW sales guy.

Best of all? Nobody here has driven the damn thing, so we're all just shooting BS, waiting for the time to pass.

Please, step up the level of maturity in your posts. It's okay if BMW comes up with a nice car, and we still like Porsches.
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      12-13-2010, 03:22 PM   #44
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For me, the 8:12 shows that the 1M is pretty much on par with the current M3 on track, which is pretty damned impressive when you consider the power differential.

I am mentally giving the M3 an 8:10 around the 'Ring, since Walter Rohrl says that PSC+ sneakers are worth five seconds in that venue.

Amazing. I'm thinking the chassis may just be sublime, and for the first time in a long while, I'm excited about a new M offering.

Looking at the specs, it seems as if the baby M may come in at quite a bit less than 3400 pounds, which is heartwarming. Converting Euro weight specs to SAE (full tank, nobody aboard and no luggage) gives you just a hair over 3300 pounds. Then adding U.S. safety stuff will add a few pounds.

Say, 3350 or so? I find it hard to believe, but maybe?

Cool.

I also think the quarter mile time may be down at 13 flat or so, possibly tickling the high twelves, at just below 110 mph.
Taking the tires into consideration does indeed make the accomplishment of the 1M chassis even more impressive but only of the tires used on the 1M for its hot lap are somehow inferior to the PSC+. I though the consensus here on the form was that a PSC+ is way closer to a PS2 than it is to a true PSC. Thus, I'm questioning the 5 seconds for the PSC+.

I've also added a post on the main thread about the 1Ms time to see if anyone knows exactly which tires it was running.

It is (as you probably know) basically a complete E92 M3 suspension on the car.
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Last edited by swamp2; 12-13-2010 at 04:00 PM.
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