BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Wheels + Tires Sponsored by The Tire Rack
  TireRack

KEEP M3POST ALIVE BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER LINK!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-27-2010, 02:14 PM   #1
Fsarc
0
Lieutenant
 
Fsarc's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.5 E92 M3 LMB
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: BC-Northern NJ

Posts: 418
iTrader: (3)

Question on 5mm spacers

I did a search and can't seem to find a definitive answer. I have the ZCP/359 rims and I'm running a 275/35/19 in the rear. Are 5mm spacers okay to use on the rear hubs? I know some people run a 5mm spacer and 5mm was also recommended to me by a vendor for that tire size. Then I just read another vendor says 5mm will definitely not work and won't even sell them.

I want to be safe first and foremost and also don't want to run into any vibration issues- not worth it Is there enough of the stock hub lip left after installing the 5mm spacer to avoid any issues? I know the 5mm spacers are not hub-centric and you are relying on the stock hub lip to properly seat the rim. I've read the stock hub lip in the rear is 12mm and after the 5mm spacer is installed there will be 7mm of hub lip remaining. Is that correct? Is 7mm enough?

This is from Turner MS on the 5mm-
"* = a 5mm spacer sits on the existing hub lip but leaves less than 5mm of lip for the wheel to rest on. Therefore, wheels that have a bevel around the center bore will not engage the hub lip and a vibration may result."

Do the 359 rims have a bevel around the center bore?

Thanks!
Fsarc is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2010, 03:17 PM   #2
11' AW M3
0
Major
 
Drives: 11' ZCP E92 M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: california

Posts: 1,237
iTrader: (2)

if you search my posts, you will find that I was running MS 5mm spacers with no problems on 275/35 vreds. FYI, now that I swapped them for 10mm spacers, I am 90% sure I am rubbing. Not much room there with the 275s unfortunately. I almost want to give up the 275s so that I can keep running the larger spacer...
__________________
2011 AW/FR Extended E92 M3... fully loaded
11' AW M3 is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2010, 08:01 PM   #3
geneatals
0
Ninja
 
geneatals's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.5 E90 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: So Cal (SFV)

Posts: 3,206
iTrader: (2)

so the stock 265's on 359's w/ ZCP +12.5 mm spacers should not rub then....

sorry for the thread jack...

I'm also curious as TMS states they don't recc running anything less than 12.5mm (5mm and 10mm are not recc'd for reasons mentioned by the OP).....


***can someone provide a pic of the inner hub of 359 wheels...
__________________
2011.5 E90 M3 AW l Black Novillo Leather | Carbon Fiber Leather Trim | ZCP | ZP2 | M-DCT | Navigation | Moonroof | 6FL l Pics/Mods
Retired: 2008 535i l AW l Black Dakota Leather l Bamboo Anthracite l ZPP l ZSP l 6FL

Last edited by geneatals; 11-27-2010 at 08:17 PM.
geneatals is online now   Philippines
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 04:51 PM   #4
alpina527
0
Banned
 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3 DCT JZB/FR
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London, England

Posts: 638
iTrader: (1)

The internal 30 degree chamfer on oem rims is 6mm long. The spigot is 10.8mm long.

This leaves 4.8mm for the wheel to locate on.

Add a 5mm spacer and you won't be locating properly.

Best to get 10mm or bigger hubcentrics or the TMS extenders if you rally want the 5mm spacers
alpina527 is offline   United Kingdom
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 05:47 PM   #5
e1000
0
that's what SHE said!
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: OC

Posts: 1,076
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by geneatals View Post
so the stock 265's on 359's w/ ZCP +12.5 mm spacers should not rub then....

sorry for the thread jack...

I'm also curious as TMS states they don't recc running anything less than 12.5mm (5mm and 10mm are not recc'd for reasons mentioned by the OP).....


***can someone provide a pic of the inner hub of 359 wheels...
Stock 265's w/ 359M's +12.5mm TMS spacers do not rub

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450066
__________________
e1000 is offline  
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 05:48 PM   #6
acuteperformance
0
 
acuteperformance's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 Audi R8 V8 | 15 BMW M4 YMB
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pasadena, CA

Posts: 1,013
iTrader: (14)

Send a message via AIM to acuteperformance Send a message via MSN to acuteperformance
+1. Haven't heard of anyone running into issues using 12.5 TMS spacers.

Michael
Acute Performance - TMS Dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by e1000 View Post
Stock 265's w/ 359M's +12.5 TMP spacers do not rub

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450066
acuteperformance is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 06:15 PM   #7
geneatals
0
Ninja
 
geneatals's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.5 E90 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: So Cal (SFV)

Posts: 3,206
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e1000 View Post
Stock 265's w/ 359M's +12.5mm TMS spacers do not rub

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450066
right, again, thanx for chiming and for the pm's..

just curious to know why 10mm is not recc'd by this one company...and if the disclaimer is valid RE: the stock hub lip and 10mm or 5mm spacer application....
__________________
2011.5 E90 M3 AW l Black Novillo Leather | Carbon Fiber Leather Trim | ZCP | ZP2 | M-DCT | Navigation | Moonroof | 6FL l Pics/Mods
Retired: 2008 535i l AW l Black Dakota Leather l Bamboo Anthracite l ZPP l ZSP l 6FL
geneatals is online now   Philippines
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 06:36 PM   #8
Daft
0
Captain
 
Daft's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 ZCP E92 M3 & 2003 E46 M3
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 887
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [4.86]
2003 BMW M3  [5.00]
For what it's worth I'm running 15mm spacers up front, 12mm rear on 275/35, 255/35 tires with ZCP wheels. No rubbing whatsoever even on big bumps and full lock turns. Lowering springs are also installed. And this is my winter setup so the tires have more beefy rubber than summers. The look is great!
__________________

2011 M3 ZCP | ESS SUPERCHARGED | AKRAPOVIC EVOLUTION | 20" HRE P40 | BREMBO BBK | B&G SPRINGS
Daft is offline   Canada
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 06:38 PM   #9
acuteperformance
0
 
acuteperformance's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 Audi R8 V8 | 15 BMW M4 YMB
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pasadena, CA

Posts: 1,013
iTrader: (14)

Send a message via AIM to acuteperformance Send a message via MSN to acuteperformance
just wondering but did you get an alignment after lowering? remember what the camber was at?

michael
acute performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daft View Post
For what it's worth I'm running 15mm spacers up front, 12mm rear on 275/35, 255/35 tires with ZCP wheels. No rubbing whatsoever even on big bumps and full lock turns. Lowering springs are also installed. And this is my winter setup so the tires have more beefy rubber than summers. The look is great!
acuteperformance is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 07:14 PM   #10
11' AW M3
0
Major
 
Drives: 11' ZCP E92 M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: california

Posts: 1,237
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daft View Post
For what it's worth I'm running 15mm spacers up front, 12mm rear on 275/35, 255/35 tires with ZCP wheels. No rubbing whatsoever even on big bumps and full lock turns. Lowering springs are also installed. And this is my winter setup so the tires have more beefy rubber than summers. The look is great!
There has to be something unique about your setup. Either your springs are much more stiff than stock, or your rear camber was adjusted. Like I mentioned your thread and here, I am rubbing with a 275 tire and 10mm spacer (no mods to my oem zcp suspension). Another guy on here with a sedan, which supposedly has more room in the back than us coupes, was also complaining about rubbing with 275s and a 10mm spacer.
__________________
2011 AW/FR Extended E92 M3... fully loaded
11' AW M3 is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 07:16 PM   #11
acuteperformance
0
 
acuteperformance's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 Audi R8 V8 | 15 BMW M4 YMB
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pasadena, CA

Posts: 1,013
iTrader: (14)

Send a message via AIM to acuteperformance Send a message via MSN to acuteperformance
i suspect it has something to do with his camber.

michael
acute performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11' AW M3 View Post
There has to be something unique about your setup. Either your springs are much more stiff than stock, or your rear camber was adjusted. Like I mentioned your thread and here, I am rubbing with a 275 tire and 10mm spacer (no mods to my oem zcp suspension). Another guy on here with a sedan, which supposedly has more room in the back than us coupes, was also complaining about rubbing with 275s and a 10mm spacer.
acuteperformance is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 07:33 PM   #12
geneatals
0
Ninja
 
geneatals's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.5 E90 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: So Cal (SFV)

Posts: 3,206
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daft View Post
For what it's worth I'm running 15mm spacers up front, 12mm rear on 275/35, 255/35 tires with ZCP wheels. No rubbing whatsoever even on big bumps and full lock turns. Lowering springs are also installed. And this is my winter setup so the tires have more beefy rubber than summers. The look is great!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11' AW M3 View Post
There has to be something unique about your setup. Either your springs are much more stiff than stock, or your rear camber was adjusted. Like I mentioned your thread and here, I am rubbing with a 275 tire and 10mm spacer (no mods to my oem zcp suspension). Another guy on here with a sedan, which supposedly has more room in the back than us coupes, was also complaining about rubbing with 275s and a 10mm spacer.
what brand of tires?

also: anyone else care to chime RE: the hub lip and if 10mm/5mm will "safely" fit....
__________________
2011.5 E90 M3 AW l Black Novillo Leather | Carbon Fiber Leather Trim | ZCP | ZP2 | M-DCT | Navigation | Moonroof | 6FL l Pics/Mods
Retired: 2008 535i l AW l Black Dakota Leather l Bamboo Anthracite l ZPP l ZSP l 6FL

Last edited by geneatals; 11-29-2010 at 07:39 PM.
geneatals is online now   Philippines
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 07:52 PM   #13
Fsarc
0
Lieutenant
 
Fsarc's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.5 E92 M3 LMB
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: BC-Northern NJ

Posts: 418
iTrader: (3)

I was kind of looking for a "definitive" answer as well. Either it fits properly or it doesn't. If it doesn't, than a vendor on this forum is providing inaccurate recommendations for use of a 5mm spacer with a ZCP/359 wheel and 275/35/19 tire. I don't car if you can put it on an drive away and look cool, I want to know if it is correct from a technical point of view.
Fsarc is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 08:01 PM   #14
acuteperformance
0
 
acuteperformance's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 Audi R8 V8 | 15 BMW M4 YMB
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Pasadena, CA

Posts: 1,013
iTrader: (14)

Send a message via AIM to acuteperformance Send a message via MSN to acuteperformance
It's not that simple. There is a specific tolerance that is deemed acceptable when you build a car. Then you throw in tire sizes, brands, how low the car is, driver weight, etc it'll all throw it off.

This is exactly why when companies build rims for cars they are less aggressive, they need to compensate for this tolerance.

So, what 15/12mm might work for someone, it won't work 100% of the time. Know what I mean?

Michael
Acute Performance


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fsarc View Post
I was kind of looking for a "definitive" answer as well. Either it fits properly or it doesn't. If it doesn't, than a vendor on this forum is providing inaccurate recommendations for use of a 5mm spacer with a ZCP/359 wheel and 275/35/19 tire. I don't car if you can put it on an drive away and look cool, I want to know if it is correct from a technical point of view.
acuteperformance is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 09:22 PM   #15
11' AW M3
0
Major
 
Drives: 11' ZCP E92 M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: california

Posts: 1,237
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by geneatals View Post
what brand of tires?

also: anyone else care to chime RE: the hub lip and if 10mm/5mm will "safely" fit....
Vreds... both of us if I remember correctly
__________________
2011 AW/FR Extended E92 M3... fully loaded
11' AW M3 is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 10:03 PM   #16
tom @ eas
0
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
tom @ eas's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

Posts: 10,480
iTrader: (13)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fsarc View Post
I did a search and can't seem to find a definitive answer. I have the ZCP/359 rims and I'm running a 275/35/19 in the rear. Are 5mm spacers okay to use on the rear hubs? I know some people run a 5mm spacer and 5mm was also recommended to me by a vendor for that tire size. Then I just read another vendor says 5mm will definitely not work and won't even sell them.

I want to be safe first and foremost and also don't want to run into any vibration issues- not worth it Is there enough of the stock hub lip left after installing the 5mm spacer to avoid any issues? I know the 5mm spacers are not hub-centric and you are relying on the stock hub lip to properly seat the rim. I've read the stock hub lip in the rear is 12mm and after the 5mm spacer is installed there will be 7mm of hub lip remaining. Is that correct? Is 7mm enough?

This is from Turner MS on the 5mm-
"* = a 5mm spacer sits on the existing hub lip but leaves less than 5mm of lip for the wheel to rest on. Therefore, wheels that have a bevel around the center bore will not engage the hub lip and a vibration may result."

Do the 359 rims have a bevel around the center bore?

Thanks!
We're recommending the Macht Schnell 12mm front and 10mm rear on the ZCP wheels, we've done so for many ZCP models this year. This allows the wheels to sit flush with the fenders and giving an overall aggressive look ot your M3.

Feel free to contact me directly if you should have any further questions.
__________________
tom @ eas is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 10:38 PM   #17
geneatals
0
Ninja
 
geneatals's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.5 E90 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: So Cal (SFV)

Posts: 3,206
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
We're recommending the Macht Schnell 12mm front and 10mm rear on the ZCP wheels, we've done so for many ZCP models this year. This allows the wheels to sit flush with the fenders and giving an overall aggressive look ot your M3.

Feel free to contact me directly if you should have any further questions.
so 5mm/10mm spacers fit safely/properly on the hub lips for the front and rear? does MS have the same disclaimer regarding 5mm/10mm for spacers as TMS?

I think we're asking about proper fit/vibration, not flushness...
__________________
2011.5 E90 M3 AW l Black Novillo Leather | Carbon Fiber Leather Trim | ZCP | ZP2 | M-DCT | Navigation | Moonroof | 6FL l Pics/Mods
Retired: 2008 535i l AW l Black Dakota Leather l Bamboo Anthracite l ZPP l ZSP l 6FL
geneatals is online now   Philippines
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 11:11 PM   #18
Daft
0
Captain
 
Daft's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 ZCP E92 M3 & 2003 E46 M3
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 887
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [4.86]
2003 BMW M3  [5.00]
Yes the shop that installed my springs, which also did my Brembo brake install at the same time, did a proper alignment after everything. They're a very reputable racing shop, took nearly 2 full days for install, and charged me up the ass, but I am really happy with their work. The car does handle better than stock dispite just being a simple spring install. The alignment was done with the summer setup; 20" HRE P40 with PS2 tires.
Winter tires are Blizzaks LM-60 on the stock ZCP wheelies.

I have the Macht Schnell spacers. I don't think it matters what thickness you get in terms of safe fitment. All spacers will completly fit the wheel hub regardless of thickness. It's basically an extention of the offset of your wheels so it shouldn't matter as the part that fits on the hub is always the same length.
__________________

2011 M3 ZCP | ESS SUPERCHARGED | AKRAPOVIC EVOLUTION | 20" HRE P40 | BREMBO BBK | B&G SPRINGS
Daft is offline   Canada
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 11:27 PM   #19
geneatals
0
Ninja
 
geneatals's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.5 E90 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: So Cal (SFV)

Posts: 3,206
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daft View Post
I have the Macht Schnell spacers. I don't think it matters what thickness you get in terms of safe fitment. All spacers will completly fit the wheel hub regardless of thickness. It's basically an extention of the offset of your wheels so it shouldn't matter as the part that fits on the hub is always the same length.
it's not a question of the spacer fitting the hub, it's a matter of how the wheel will sit/fit on the spacer...
__________________
2011.5 E90 M3 AW l Black Novillo Leather | Carbon Fiber Leather Trim | ZCP | ZP2 | M-DCT | Navigation | Moonroof | 6FL l Pics/Mods
Retired: 2008 535i l AW l Black Dakota Leather l Bamboo Anthracite l ZPP l ZSP l 6FL
geneatals is online now   Philippines
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 11:38 PM   #20
Daft
0
Captain
 
Daft's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 ZCP E92 M3 & 2003 E46 M3
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 887
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [4.86]
2003 BMW M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by geneatals View Post
it's not a question of the spacer fitting the hub, it's a matter of how the wheel will sit/fit on the spacer...
I can't say this for other brands, but when I got my MS spacers they were the same length as the wheel hub. I also did a test fit on the wheels that were sitting in my living room. Very tight and flush fit, no chance for vibration at all. It was actually pretty hard removing them from the bare wheel, had to use a flathead to pry them off..
__________________

2011 M3 ZCP | ESS SUPERCHARGED | AKRAPOVIC EVOLUTION | 20" HRE P40 | BREMBO BBK | B&G SPRINGS
Daft is offline   Canada
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2010, 11:44 PM   #21
11' AW M3
0
Major
 
Drives: 11' ZCP E92 M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: california

Posts: 1,237
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daft View Post
Yes the shop that installed my springs, which also did my Brembo brake install at the same time, did a proper alignment after everything. They're a very reputable racing shop, took nearly 2 full days for install, and charged me up the ass, but I am really happy with their work. The car does handle better than stock dispite just being a simple spring install. The alignment was done with the summer setup; 20" HRE P40 with PS2 tires.
Winter tires are Blizzaks LM-60 on the stock ZCP wheelies.

I have the Macht Schnell spacers. I don't think it matters what thickness you get in terms of safe fitment. All spacers will completly fit the wheel hub regardless of thickness. It's basically an extention of the offset of your wheels so it shouldn't matter as the part that fits on the hub is always the same length.
Did they adjust your camber in the rear?
__________________
2011 AW/FR Extended E92 M3... fully loaded
11' AW M3 is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-30-2010, 04:40 AM   #22
e1000
0
that's what SHE said!
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: OC

Posts: 1,076
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daft View Post
I have the Macht Schnell spacers. I don't think it matters what thickness you get in terms of safe fitment. All spacers will completly fit the wheel hub regardless of thickness. It's basically an extention of the offset of your wheels so it shouldn't matter as the part that fits on the hub is always the same length.
Not exactly:

Anything below 10mm will not have the hubcentric lip. This means that the factory wheel hub needs to be long enough to engage the centerbore of the wheel. As debated in this thread 3mm is safe but 5 may be just enough to have the wheel not engage the wheel hub properly.

10mm is the in-between spacer. The stock wheel hub is right at this length, so depending on the spacer the hubcentric lip might prevent the spacer from sitting flush on the stock hub. I'm not sure if this is a problem on the rear hubs of the M3 but I personally didn't want to chance it.

Anything 12mm+ will sit flush and properly engage the wheel centerbore with the new hubcentric lip on the spacer.
__________________
e1000 is offline  
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:24 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST