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      11-23-2010, 09:50 PM   #1
JPatrick
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Local Dealer or Not (Seattle)

I've waited a long time to buy a really nice car. Now that I'm going to pull the trigger, I want to make sure I don't end up with a questionable deal. I'd prefer to buy from a local dealer (for me that would be Seattle BMW or Bellevue BMW), but I'm doubtful they'll give me the best price. Actually, I'd be willing to pay a little more to buy local, but just a little.

Anyone have good experiences with these dealers? My first conversations sounded an awful like selling service over price. We haven't gotten to the price yet but will be soon (holidays and unusual snow have gotten in the way).

I'm looking for a new E92 with most everything (I'm still noodling ZCP and color).

I do not buy a car that often and never a car this expensive. I'm a bit uncomfortable with the process. Seattle is doing a lot better than many areas so I do not think the dealers feel as much pressure to deal.

Any feedback/advice would be great.

BTW: my first post!

Thanks from a future M3 owner.
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      11-23-2010, 09:56 PM   #2
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Welcome to the board. If you would like to see what others have paid or are paying check out this thread. http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...346708&page=38

its on the last page sorry you will have to scan through the thread. Hope that helps.
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      11-23-2010, 10:54 PM   #3
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Thanks golffrr. I waded through a lot of the posts and it looks like a good price is somewhere around invoice plus 1K (sound about right?).

I need to do a bit more homework, and I'd still rather do a local deal, but I suspect they'll not come close to that.
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      11-23-2010, 11:01 PM   #4
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invoice plus 1k is to much! go to your local dealer and start at 600 over then go from there if you need any help just shoot me a PM. GL with your journey. Have a great turkey day.
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      11-23-2010, 11:58 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by JPatrick View Post
Thanks golffrr. I waded through a lot of the posts and it looks like a good price is somewhere around invoice plus 1K (sound about right?).

I need to do a bit more homework, and I'd still rather do a local deal, but I suspect they'll not come close to that.
You are right. Seattle, Bellevue or Fife will most likely not come close to that. Things are quite a bit different around here than the rest of the country.

If you want to buy from a local dealer, you will have to pay a bit more.

In the past I had great luck w/ Hahn over in Yakima. They've always beat local prices for me.

PS: Don't even waste your time w/ BMW Seattle. Great place to service your car but not a great place to buy a car.
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      11-24-2010, 12:22 AM   #6
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I'm in the same situation as you but perhaps a few weeks out from ordering. Since I'm interested in a custom order, I am leaning strongly towards ordering straight from Ryan..I've only heard great things about Ryan (and David from Eurocarsonline) vs the hassle and the irritation of dealing with the local dealers. I am contemplating a delivery to Seattle or just flying down and driving back up...

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      11-24-2010, 01:32 AM   #7
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Thanks all. w00twoot, I thought about doing the same, I just want to make sure I don't get jammed up on sales taxes & licensing taxes. Hate to pay double. And yes, mine would be a custom order as well. I suspect most M3 purchases are special order as dealers typically don't stock many (if any) M3s as the customers prefer to, well, order special. Does make a bit difficult to test drive one though.

TTG, thanks for the heads up about Seattle BMW. After visiting their oh so nice new facility, I guessed that low price was not in their vocabulary. Yakima would be a nice drive.
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      11-24-2010, 08:14 AM   #8
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Quote:
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Thanks all. w00twoot, I thought about doing the same, I just want to make sure I don't get jammed up on sales taxes & licensing taxes. Hate to pay double. And yes, mine would be a custom order as well. I suspect most M3 purchases are special order as dealers typically don't stock many (if any) M3s as the customers prefer to, well, order special. Does make a bit difficult to test drive one though.

TTG, thanks for the heads up about Seattle BMW. After visiting their oh so nice new facility, I guessed that low price was not in their vocabulary. Yakima would be a nice drive.
good point regd. taxes.. I believe you pay only WA taxes if you get it delivered here but will have to pay CA taxes (and then deal with WA DMV) if you drive it up from there.

Keep us posted on how this goes.. I'm very curious and like I said before, I'm a few weeks behind you but will be ordering by late Dec/Early Jan.
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      11-24-2010, 04:56 PM   #9
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I totally agree with everything TTG said. In our area, you are not going to get prices like CA does. Our economy is not justifiable for some reason. I came into Bellevue and telling them this is what "others" are paying and i'm only paying this much. I ended up getting maybe 2500 discount off MSRP when there were 10 other M3s on the lot.

Most people have bought their cars at Bellevue thru Alvin Ecklund. I get my service done in Seattle now. I hope this helps.
Quote:
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You are right. Seattle, Bellevue or Fife will most likely not come close to that. Things are quite a bit different around here than the rest of the country.

If you want to buy from a local dealer, you will have to pay a bit more.

In the past I had great luck w/ Hahn over in Yakima. They've always beat local prices for me.

PS: Don't even waste your time w/ BMW Seattle. Great place to service your car but not a great place to buy a car.
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      11-24-2010, 05:41 PM   #10
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Well, I live in Issaquah. I ordered through Ryan. I regret it a little bit, as my car will land in LA on 11/30. That means I will need to find a time to fly to LA and drive it back up right between my birthday, holiday parties, and Christmas.

It also means that all my buddies who were all in for a road trip are backing out. But that is my fault, Ryan has been great to work with. Especially if you are used to doing business via e-mail - he gets the concept. That is also part of the problem, as I did the deal while on conference calls and traveling. Did not think through the holidays thing.

I paid less than $600 over invoice and I understand that Oregon dealers will do $1,000 easily. I would be surprised is INTERNET SALES MANAGER locally could not match this. Ryan though did two things that I did not feel comfortable about getting locally. He managed the ED process well, and he got me the car with 4 weeks notice. Additionally he did not markup bank fees nor rates, like the Bellevue dealer does. Basically I grew tired of having to watch my back with the Bellevue guys and went with a guy who earned my trust.

Bellevue dealer tried to charge me more for:
- Mats - $140 or so
- Lease money factor .250 instead of .220 (ED factor)
- ED invoice pricing - claimed at first that ED MSRP was already a great discount!

Eventually, I assumed that they will try to screw me on everything else, registration, marketing fees, who knows... lost confidence and decided to fly to LA to get my car from a guy who is a straight shooter.

In defense of the Bellevue dealer, they never told me - we are the best price guys. They are the - we treat you well, and you PAY for it guys. It works in Seattle where (I am generalizing) people who buy M3s have lots of money and people who don't buy Subarus. We just don't have that many Dallas, NJ, CA DINKs that are willing to spend 20% of their $70K salary on a nice car. (I am not judging, I was one of them 10 years ago when I bought a new S4.) Here most people who drive M3s could pay cash for a Porsche. BMW even 3 series is still a nice car here, not so in NJ where it seems everyone buys one for their admin.

All I am saying, BMWs are volume cars in some parts of the country and still exclusive in others. Here dealers still think exclusive, and if you are buying one $50 or $100 per month is not that important to you.

On this board we have people for whom $100 matters either because it's a lot of money (per month) or just on principle they like getting a great deal. These people do not see eye to eye with local dealers. Different strokes for different folks.

Tomasz

P.S. Sorry for the book. I hope someone cares.
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      11-24-2010, 05:56 PM   #11
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On taxes.

Leased car - just pay WA taxes on lease payment. I am 99% sure CA taxes on down payment if you chose to do so.

Ask Ryan what happens if you finance the car. All of my out of state purchases were leases.

It is VERY unlikely that you would need to pay sales tax twice. And since CA and WA taxes are about the same this should not be an issue. Call our DMV, and ask. They should be slow today.
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      11-24-2010, 06:16 PM   #12
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Thanks Tomasz. Makes perfect sense. While I can afford the car, it is simply being prudent to shop for the best price especially given the messed up state of the economy. $100 a month is not something I'd really worry about but I'd feel like a fool if I paid $2-3K more than necessary.

I always feel at a disadvantage going into a dealership. These folks sell cars day in and day out and know how to sell them. I buy a car every once in a while. When I was buying family cars it was not so much a concern but with this car it is.

Really, the only reason I'm spending any time with a dealer is I need to do some test drives; otherwise, I would not bother at all. I'd just order it and fly somewhere & pick it up. I don't know anyone with a E92 DCT (which is what I want) so I'm stuck screwing around with a dealer to get a bit of seat time.

And flying to CA is inexpensive and driving a new car back would be really nice. Too bad you got stuck right in the middle of the holidays. The good news is that you'll have your new M3 soon.
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      11-24-2010, 06:41 PM   #13
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For taxes on a purchase you only pay the difference between CA and WA (if any). If the CA taxes are more than the WA taxes then you don't get the difference back. I believe that CA dealers are required to collect the taxes on the sale before you can drive off the lot (or something of that nature).

Also, I plan to do exactly the same thing you are talking about but I'll be waiting until the spring. Test drive in Seattle to figure out if I want DCT or 6MT, buy from Ryan, fly to CA and get the car, drive back, schedule 1200 mile service at BMW Seattle for the day after I get back

I plan to drive the Pacific Coast Highway 1 to OR/WA 101 pretty much all the way back so waiting until late spring or early summer is key. Should be a fun drive and the car will be done with the break in period once I get back.

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      11-24-2010, 07:25 PM   #14
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Yup. Sounds perfect. But I don't think I'll wait quite that long. I'll just pray the rain holds off for those couple days. (there, I got my 5 required posts in!)
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      11-24-2010, 08:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
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For taxes on a purchase you only pay the difference between CA and WA (if any). If the CA taxes are more than the WA taxes then you don't get the difference back. I believe that CA dealers are required to collect the taxes on the sale before you can drive off the lot (or something of that nature).
this is great to hear .. I was wondering about the CA / WA Tax thing.. I might just do what you're planning to and make a trip out of it too...

JPatrick are you planning to contact the bmw dealer in Yakima too?
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      11-24-2010, 09:11 PM   #16
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Not at this point unless the tax & license thing turns out to be a headache.

CA is nice 'cause I can combine the trip with a visit with my son at a UC school.

But Yakima (or YakVegas as it is affectionately known) is a pretty easy drive. So right now doubtful but I'll know more after further investigation.
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      11-24-2010, 09:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kibosh View Post
For taxes on a purchase you only pay the difference between CA and WA (if any). If the CA taxes are more than the WA taxes then you don't get the difference back. I believe that CA dealers are required to collect the taxes on the sale before you can drive off the lot (or something of that nature).

Also, I plan to do exactly the same thing you are talking about but I'll be waiting until the spring. Test drive in Seattle to figure out if I want DCT or 6MT, buy from Ryan, fly to CA and get the car, drive back, schedule 1200 mile service at BMW Seattle for the day after I get back

I plan to drive the Pacific Coast Highway 1 to OR/WA 101 pretty much all the way back so waiting until late spring or early summer is key. Should be a fun drive and the car will be done with the break in period once I get back.
Sounds like a awesome trip. I have family in Mill Creek WA and i made the drive 2 times and it was nice. It would have been even better if i had had my M3 then
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      11-24-2010, 11:02 PM   #18
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Most people have bought their cars at Bellevue thru Alvin Ecklund. I get my service done in Seattle now. I hope this helps.
I would say give Alvin a try.....Here is why:

Once you know what you want options & etc:

-It took me less than 10 mins to order my car through Alvin.

-He brought the ED invoice option sheet over and I picked what I want. No games, tricks additional fees & other nonsense. I only paid invoice plus our agreed dealer profit not a penny more.
-I was not quite sure about my final color combo which he told me was no big deal and that I can decide later.

-He knows his ED stuff real well. I was able to get the exact date I wanted which had to be changed in the middle of my wait time as there was a huge convention going on in Munich and I could not get hotel rooms. Alvin was able to get me an earlier delivery.

-For redelivery, he was constantly able to track my car and provide info.

-Once the car arrived, I've asked them not to prep it. Alvin made sure that my car was untouched. It was just as left it in Munich. This was not the case on my previous ED's which I did not go through Alvin.

Overall, I ended up paying a bit more than what you would pay at a CA dealer but my car got delivered 5 miles away from where I live and I was able to stop by and pick it up right after work....

The convenience and the experience was worth paying extra as you will have to pay for hotels, air travel & gas if you choose to travel to CA.

For taxes:

You will need to get a transit permit from CA and won't have to pay sales tax on the car. Once you bring it to WA, DOL will charge you for tax..... Again, this also was another hassle I did not have to deal with.

Let me know if you have other questions.

Here is the thread I started after ordering the M.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361487
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Last edited by TTG; 11-24-2010 at 11:09 PM.
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      11-25-2010, 12:07 AM   #19
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stupid noob question ... what's ED? ... ah never mind.. Euro Delivery :-)
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      11-25-2010, 11:24 AM   #20
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A few slightly off topic questions for TTG and 1MORELAP (and any other Seattle area car owners).

How do you feel about ZCP or, more specifically, the 19 inch wheel package now that you have been running around the Seattle area for a while? In the city of Seattle, where I live, the roads are pretty crappy. The Eastside (where I work), the roads generally are much better. But Seattle (now with its anti-car mayor) is a concern.

TTG, you did not get the premium sound system? Also, I see you got the power rear sunshade. Has it been useful?

Thanks!
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      11-25-2010, 10:20 PM   #21
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I am coming from Cayman S on 19s and Eibachs. I had zero doubt that ZCP would be still more comfortable. While in Germany, I never regretted it. I doubt I will once the car gets here.
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      11-30-2010, 04:00 PM   #22
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It works in Seattle where (I am generalizing) people who buy M3s have lots of money and people who don't buy Subaru's.
Very true. I can't afford any M3 and bought a Subaru instead. Nothing beats the sound of disappointment when I turn the key each morning.

The upshot is, last week's snow did trap me at home at all. Wait... that isn't an upshot...
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