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      11-15-2010, 07:03 AM   #1
sameh
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Transien throttle cut off while cornering!! freaking out

This is the second time it happens. 1st time was few days ago but I couldnít believe it happened and found 17 different reasons to calm myself down. This morning is the second time. When Iím taking a 90 degree turn from a standstill and I try to overpower the DSC the car holds back and there is a transient throttle cut off as if I hit the rev limiter. Then it responds again. Is that normal? I wanna believe that I can always overpower the DSC if I want/need to. I had my car for over 6 months with almost 13000 miles on it and this week was first time to experience that TWICE. May be Iím getting used to the car limits and started pushing beyond them, may be the tires arenít as good as before or may be I have a real problem. Thoughts please
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      11-15-2010, 08:37 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by sameh View Post
This is the second time it happens. 1st time was few days ago but I couldnít believe it happened and found 17 different reasons to calm myself down. This morning is the second time. When Iím taking a 90 degree turn from a standstill and I try to overpower the DSC the car holds back and there is a transient throttle cut off as if I hit the rev limiter. Then it responds again. Is that normal? I wanna believe that I can always overpower the DSC if I want/need to. I had my car for over 6 months with almost 13000 miles on it and this week was first time to experience that TWICE. May be Iím getting used to the car limits and started pushing beyond them, may be the tires arenít as good as before or may be I have a real problem. Thoughts please
If you have it - use MDM mode or shut off the DSC entirely.
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      11-15-2010, 08:42 AM   #3
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Yeah I know that if I used MDM or shut the DSC off it shouldn't happen (I'll make sure thought) but it didn't feel right at all. The engine sound went silent and the car experienced a brief DEATH. That doesn't sound right! It was like a setting duck for a second. I don't have the DCT lag issue but from others describing it, it kinda feel like that.
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      11-15-2010, 10:37 AM   #4
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Its normal. You can not overpower the DSC, that is why you can turn it off. Your tires are older and weather is colder, so this will be more noticeable.

If you want to drive like the way you describe - turn traction off and learn to use your right foot to modulate.
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      11-15-2010, 10:47 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by 1MORELAP View Post
Its normal. You can not overpower the DSC, that is why you can turn it off. Your tires are older and weather is colder, so this will be more noticeable.

If you want to drive like the way you describe - turn traction off and learn to use your right foot to modulate.
Yep, definitely normal. The DSC will cut off power entirely and feel exactly like that. It's pretty "scary" if you're not expecting it and want power (which is what usually happens since you're generally flooring it or wanting power when that happens).

I don't have that M mode or whatever in my car, but I think you're able to change the "sensitivity" of the DSC. Just watch out since we're having much colder weather now. In the mornings leaving my development at grandma pace, the rear end wiggles a bit when it's below 40 degrees F.
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      11-15-2010, 10:49 AM   #6
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DSC can be subtle or abrupt depending on what is needed to "regain" vehicle control. If DSC is active, it will have "first rights of refusal" for your throttle requests.

MDM mode will "learn" your driving style and begin to allow the power-on oversteer you are "requesting" as you ask for it. You have to have MDM active for it to learn, though, so it will start off at "Full DSC" and gradually allow the driver more control.

I usually drive with MDM active, and have noticed the dynamics where DSC used to intervene have been relaxed. Give it a shot!
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      11-15-2010, 11:26 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by ZCPM3owner View Post
DSC can be subtle or abrupt depending on what is needed to "regain" vehicle control. If DSC is active, it will have "first rights of refusal" for your throttle requests.

MDM mode will "learn" your driving style and begin to allow the power-on oversteer you are "requesting" as you ask for it. You have to have MDM active for it to learn, though, so it will start off at "Full DSC" and gradually allow the driver more control.

I usually drive with MDM active, and have noticed the dynamics where DSC used to intervene have been relaxed. Give it a shot!
I am soooo relieved that DSC cutting power is normal. You know with all the problems i read on this forum i certainly didn't wanna hear that I have one. It might be my mechanical ignorance but i thought DSC controls the LSD but I didn't know it can cut power. And yes, it is freaknd scary feeling literally POWERLESS . I have been driving around the past hour or so on MDM to try it in 90 degree turns and it's awesome. It gives me just enough control to turn aggressively with some tyre spinning but I know it got my back if I get stupid. For the past 6 months I only used the MDM in linear acceleration to avoid the DSC bugging but I just started using it for cornering. Which probably means that my driving style became more aggressive. That I like. Thanks guys
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      11-15-2010, 11:49 AM   #8
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I suspect part of the problem may be cold temperatures in the tires due to colder weather. On the PS2's low temperatures can make a big difference.
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      11-15-2010, 11:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
I am soooo relieved that DSC cutting power is normal. You know with all the problems i read on this forum i certainly didn't wanna hear that I have one. It might be my mechanical ignorance but i thought DSC controls the LSD but I didn't know it can cut power. And yes, it is freaknd scary feeling literally POWERLESS . I have been driving around the past hour or so on MDM to try it in 90 degree turns and it's awesome. It gives me just enough control to turn aggressively with some tyre spinning but I know it got my back if I get stupid. For the past 6 months I only used the MDM in linear acceleration to avoid the DSC bugging but I just started using it for cornering. Which probably means that my driving style became more aggressive. That I like. Thanks guys
You might want to read your owners manual. There's lots of good stuff in there.
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      11-15-2010, 12:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMOCHOSTO View Post
I suspect part of the problem may be cold temperatures in the tires due to colder weather. On the PS2's low temperatures can make a big difference.
Conti 3 here! But they could be the same.
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      11-15-2010, 01:36 PM   #11
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I usually drive in MDM mode all the time when it gets cold. Otherwise the tires slip a little, and power cuts and your screwed. A little wheel spin is okay.
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      11-15-2010, 01:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCPM3owner View Post
DSC can be subtle or abrupt depending on what is needed to "regain" vehicle control. If DSC is active, it will have "first rights of refusal" for your throttle requests.

MDM mode will "learn" your driving style and begin to allow the power-on oversteer you are "requesting" as you ask for it. You have to have MDM active for it to learn, though, so it will start off at "Full DSC" and gradually allow the driver more control.

I usually drive with MDM active, and have noticed the dynamics where DSC used to intervene have been relaxed. Give it a shot!
Is this really true??? That MDM will learn?
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      11-15-2010, 02:04 PM   #13
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By cranking in 90 degrees of steering and then full or heavy throttle, you have just given the computer the perfect storm of pending disaster. So yes, it will certainly shut down the throttle, probably along with specific corner braking to regain what it is interpreting as a loss of control.
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      11-15-2010, 02:43 PM   #14
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I've started turning DSC off regularly unless driving on the highway, or in really bad weather. I leave it on on the highway because I think it may help if you are trying to execute an emergency steering maneuver. But otherwise...

On track it was absolutely amazing how much faster and smoother I was with the DSC off...
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      11-15-2010, 03:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skierman64 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameh View Post
I am soooo relieved that DSC cutting power is normal. You know with all the problems i read on this forum i certainly didn't wanna hear that I have one. It might be my mechanical ignorance but i thought DSC controls the LSD but I didn't know it can cut power. And yes, it is freaknd scary feeling literally POWERLESS . I have been driving around the past hour or so on MDM to try it in 90 degree turns and it's awesome. It gives me just enough control to turn aggressively with some tyre spinning but I know it got my back if I get stupid. For the past 6 months I only used the MDM in linear acceleration to avoid the DSC bugging but I just started using it for cornering. Which probably means that my driving style became more aggressive. That I like. Thanks guys
You might want to read your owners manual. There's lots of good stuff in there.
You know what. Since I didn't remember reading that much about MDM reading the manual 2 or 3 times when I purchased the car. I just re-read the manual and couldn't find where it talks about MDM learning my driving style. In fact now after driving this car for > 6 months the manual is talking about a different car. A car that has a "sport button" behind the shifting lever, a car that pushing the shifting lever to the left put it in a "sport mode", a car that if you leave it on manual mode without shifting for a while it goes back to "D"??? A car that has a button in the middle of the front middle vents says DTC on it and apparently it deactivated DSC and finally a car that has run flat tires!!! And before you ask, yes it is an M3 manual. No wonder I threw it in the closet and didn't read it again. I'm nit sure which car does this manual talk about but it certainly not mine. I guess I need to read the manual online, hopefully it's different.
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      11-15-2010, 03:27 PM   #16
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Is this really true??? That MDM will learn?
If it is, this is the first I've ever heard about it. I am skeptical, but would love to see some documentation on it if he has it...
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      11-15-2010, 03:30 PM   #17
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You know what. Since I didn't remember reading that much about MDM reading the manual 2 or 3 times when I purchased the car. I just re-read the manual and couldn't find where it talks about MDM learning my driving style.
That's because it doesn't (as far as I know, and I've read the whole thing).

Quote:
In fact now after driving this car for > 6 months the manual is talking about a different car. A car that has a "sport button" behind the shifting lever, a car that pushing the shifting lever to the left put it in a "sport mode", a car that if you leave it on manual mode without shifting for a while it goes back to "D"??? A car that has a button in the middle of the front middle vents says DTC on it and apparently it deactivated DSC and finally a car that has run flat tires!!! And before you ask, yes it is an M3 manual. No wonder I threw it in the closet and didn't read it again. I'm nit sure which car does this manual talk about but it certainly not mine. I guess I need to read the manual online, hopefully it's different.
It sounds to me like you might have the supplemental manual from a 335is with DCT.
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      11-15-2010, 04:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
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That's because it doesn't (as far as I know, and I've read the whole thing).



It sounds to me like you might have the supplemental manual from a 335is with DCT.
Or just the stock M3 manual which has the automatic descriptions for "7 gear sport automatic transmission" as well. Don't know if the supplement comes in hard copy with the car (as my car hasn't arrived yet); I got both manuals from the my BMW site.

That said, the M3 supplemental manual doesn't mention anything about learning behavior either.

MDynamic Mode MDM*
M Dynamic Mode is a mode of the Dynamic
Stability Control DSC that permits greater longitudinal
and lateral acceleration when driving
on dry surfaces, yet with reduced driving stability.
Only at the absolute limit of stability does
the system intervene to stabilize the vehicle by
reducing engine power and applying the brakes
on the wheels. In such situations, additional
corrective steering maneuvers may be necessary.


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      11-15-2010, 06:05 PM   #19
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I don't think MDM learns your driving style. Where did that come from, besides this thread.
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      11-15-2010, 07:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MORELAP View Post
Its normal. You can not overpower the DSC, that is why you can turn it off. Your tires are older and weather is colder, so this will be more noticeable.

If you want to drive like the way you describe - turn traction off and learn to use your right foot to modulate.
+1
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      11-15-2010, 07:24 PM   #21
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      11-16-2010, 12:11 AM   #22
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MDM does not learn your driving style or adjust the amount of intervention based on how you're driving.
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