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      02-19-2007, 05:36 PM   #111
ganeil
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Originally Posted by snawaz View Post
But when God's final will shall be done you will have no way to trick yourselve out of that.
Nor will you if it turns out that Muhammed was a false prophet.
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      02-19-2007, 06:16 PM   #112
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Nor will you if it turns out that Muhammed was a false prophet.
ha ha. I have no answer to that, I cant say anything against your prophets as they're our prophets too!
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      02-19-2007, 07:13 PM   #113
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Maybe because Israel is the only nation in the area that has never sworn to exterminate another nation? All nations are not equal.
not publically.
Otherwise...the area was never stable since 1948...that tells me that no one in the area should have them.

On the other hand, our approach of favoring ones while accusing the others is fueling all those conflicts. Until there is justice for all...we can forget about the peace...
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      02-19-2007, 07:19 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
not publically.
Otherwise...the area was never stable since 1948...that tells me that no one in the area should have them.

On the other hand, our approach of favoring ones while accusing the others is fueling all those conflicts. Until there is justice for all...we can forget about the peace...
Tell me what concession do you think the Israelis could make to the Arabs that would satisfy them?
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      02-19-2007, 07:40 PM   #115
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i never like to get into arguments like this but youyou's coments disgust me. you have no clue of what you are talking about and think since you yell the most you must be right

1.Hezbollah took 2 soldiers because Israel was holding almost 1000 innocent Lebanese citizens and a few members of Hezbollah
2. Hezbollah had three offensive attacks on Israeli soil while every single Israeli attack was against innocent Lebanese
3. Many people say that they cant be held responsible for this because they told the Lebanese to get out of the cities and towns, but i think most would agree this is pretty dificult to do when the few vital bridges in Lebanon were all bombed, leaving them litterly no way to get out
4. Israel commited numerous war crimes such as using cluster bombs and things of the sort
5. Finally people say that Israel should be allowed to do whatever they want to Hezbollah because they are a terrorist orginization and Lebanon is also at fault for backing them. This is not true, Lebanon didnt support Hezbollah but because of previous things that Israel has done to them they have been crippled for yearsand couldnt stop them themselves, also i support disorginizing groups like Hezbollah but this is not what Israel did, they bombed any part of Lebanon at will whether or not Hezbollah was there

These are a fraction of your incorrect arguments. please bring more up and i will be more than happy to refute them
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      02-19-2007, 08:07 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by esbezee92 View Post
1.Hezbollah took 2 soldiers because Israel was holding almost 1000 innocent Lebanese citizens and a few members of Hezbollah
Is that not an issue for the Lebanese government rather than an Iranian backed militia?

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2. Hezbollah had three offensive attacks on Israeli soil while every single Israeli attack was against innocent Lebanese
Hezbollah launched 4,000 rockets into Israeli civilian areas. IDF troops and equipment were not staged in civilian areas but Hezbollah launched and stored its rockets in civilian areas. The responsibility for the resultant civilian losses falls squarely on Hezbollah.

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3. Many people say that they cant be held responsible for this because they told the Lebanese to get out of the cities and towns, but i think most would agree this is pretty dificult to do when the few vital bridges in Lebanon were all bombed, leaving them litterly no way to get out
It was not necessary for the people to leave Lebanon but just the areas used by Hezbollah to launch their attacks. Every village in southern Lebanon is not accessed by a bridge.

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4. Israel commited numerous war crimes such as using cluster bombs and things of the sort
Cluster bombs are not illegal under international law.

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5. Finally people say that Israel should be allowed to do whatever they want to Hezbollah because they are a terrorist orginization and Lebanon is also at fault for backing them. This is not true, Lebanon didnt support Hezbollah but because of previous things that Israel has done to them they have been crippled for yearsand couldnt stop them themselves, also i support disorginizing groups like Hezbollah but this is not what Israel did, they bombed any part of Lebanon at will whether or not Hezbollah was there
Lebanon is responsible for controlling military forces operating inside its territory. If it is unable to do so, they have no standing to protest when others who are threatened do.

I am not sure where you get your information but you should consider alternative sources.
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      02-19-2007, 08:10 PM   #117
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[quote=ganeil;713017]Cluster bombs are not illegal under international law.

QUOTE]

I have no time for other responses...
The cluster bombs are "illegal" in populated areas.
"illegal" can be interpreted 2 ways though. Again, justice for all or no justice at all.
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      02-19-2007, 08:14 PM   #118
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I have no time for other responses...
The cluster bombs are "illegal" in populated areas.
"illegal" can be interpreted 2 ways though. Again, justice for all or no justice at all.
So since Israel warned the civilians to leave then using CBU's was not illegal since everyone left can be assumed to be a combatant.
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      02-19-2007, 08:30 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
So since Israel warned the civilians to leave then using CBU's was not illegal since everyone left can be assumed to be a combatant.
WOW, Milosevic did the same to Kosovars...but we bombed him and spread the word around the World how bad the Serbs were.
Heck, OBL came out with numerous warnings, does that make the 911 legal???

Lets not be militaristic here and follow the common sense and have a little passion. If someone would warn you to leave Georgia because they are going to wipe your city, would you leave it all behind???
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      02-19-2007, 08:41 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
WOW, Milosevic did the same to Kosovars...but we bombed him and spread the word around the World how bad the Serbs were.
Heck, OBL came out with numerous warnings, does that make the 911 legal???

Lets not be militaristic here and follow the common sense and have a little passion. If someone would warn you to leave Georgia because they are going to wipe your city, would you leave it all behind???
Can you show me one instance where Serb forces warned civilians to leave a town or village before they attacked it because I am unaware of any?

When did bin Laden warn those who worked in the World Trade Center that their building was going to be attacked on Sept 11, 01?

Also, bin Laden or his operatives would also have had to warn those who boarded the planes that morning.

If there was an ongoing conflict in Georgia and I was warned that my town would be attacked tomorrow, you bet my family would leave.
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      02-19-2007, 09:39 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by esbezee92 View Post
1.Hezbollah took 2 soldiers because Israel was holding almost 1000 innocent Lebanese citizens and a few members of Hezbollah

Is that not an issue for the Lebanese government rather than an Iranian backed militia?

Because of previous actions Israel took on Lebanon they have been left defenseless for years and unable to stop Hezbollah


Quote:
2. Hezbollah had three offensive attacks on Israeli soil while every single Israeli attack was against innocent Lebanese

Hezbollah launched 4,000 rockets into Israeli civilian areas. IDF troops and equipment were not staged in civilian areas but Hezbollah launched and stored its rockets in civilian areas. The responsibility for the resultant civilian losses falls squarely on Hezbollah.

I dont know where you heard that or if you misinterpretted it but during the main fighting there was no where close to that amount of rockets fired into CIVILIAN areas, they were fairly busy defending the border


Quote:
3. Many people say that they cant be held responsible for this because they told the Lebanese to get out of the cities and towns, but i think most would agree this is pretty dificult to do when the few vital bridges in Lebanon were all bombed, leaving them litterly no way to get out

It was not necessary for the people to leave Lebanon but just the areas used by Hezbollah to launch their attacks. Every village in southern Lebanon is not accessed by a bridge.

Im sorry this somewhat of a translation issue i meant roads and while they didnt necesarily need to leave Lebanon they did need to leave the area which was impossible thus they DIED


Quote:
4. Israel commited numerous war crimes such as using cluster bombs and things of the sort

Cluster bombs are not illegal under international law.

Sorry i thought they were but i hope we can all agree that they are VERY unethical


Quote:
5. Finally people say that Israel should be allowed to do whatever they want to Hezbollah because they are a terrorist orginization and Lebanon is also at fault for backing them. This is not true, Lebanon didnt support Hezbollah but because of previous things that Israel has done to them they have been crippled for yearsand couldnt stop them themselves, also i support disorginizing groups like Hezbollah but this is not what Israel did, they bombed any part of Lebanon at will whether or not Hezbollah was there

Lebanon is responsible for controlling military forces operating inside its territory. If it is unable to do so, they have no standing to protest when others who are threatened do.

As ive said they are a crippled goverment ever since the civil war in 82

Quote:
I am not sure where you get your information but you should consider alternative sources.

I'm going to have to ask you the same thing, unfortunately the US media isnt well know for their validity, and while many know this they only apply it to the topics which they feel makes their arguments stronger and not the ones that weaken them.
While all this was occuring i was watching both the LBC (Lebanese Brdcst Chnl) and al-jazeera, i also watched CNN and Fox and it was amazing how different the two sides of the story are

Oh BTW nice car
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      02-19-2007, 10:13 PM   #122
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Can you show me one instance where Serb forces warned civilians to leave a town or village before they attacked it because I am unaware of any?
.
The conflict in Kosovo started a long time before we saw it on the news. It started between the KLA (US also proclaimed it and still does as the terrorist organization) and the Serbian Police. Very simple thing happened -- the KLA killed Serbian Policeman, they fired back at them. Then the KLA involved the citizens in the whole thing -- causing as we call it the colleteral damage here. But as I pointed out many times before -- when we kill thousands of innocent civilians and simply call them the colleteral damage that is OK, when others do it and if we stand with the other side for our interests -- then the justice (that we created) does not apply there.

Serbian forces did publically announce when and where they will attack when the war spread out, but that part was not shown on CNN or FOX for simple reasons -- it would not have played right with what came after that...

When you saw those reports of displaced people on the TV (800,000 of them), those were the people warned and driven by the Serbian forces out of there to save them. Otherwise, as you have pointed out before (US vs. axis of evil case), Milosevic had the power to wipe them all off in 3 days

So, you're saying if OBL did warn NYC of his intentions, all would have been cool and justified???
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      02-19-2007, 10:37 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by esbezee92 View Post
Because of previous actions Israel took on Lebanon they have been left defenseless for years and unable to stop Hezbollah
How do blame Israel for conditions in Lebanon due to actions that took place almost 25 years ago and not Syria which kept Lebanon as a puppet state for those 25 years?

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I dont know where you heard that or if you misinterpretted it but during the main fighting there was no where close to that amount of rockets fired into CIVILIAN areas, they were fairly busy defending the border
That number seems to be the consensus among the BBC, al-Jazeera, Reuters, and al Arabiya. How many do you believe were fired and where do you get this number?

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Im sorry this somewhat of a translation issue i meant roads and while they didnt necesarily need to leave Lebanon they did need to leave the area which was impossible thus they DIED
Or maybe the cowards in Hezbollah would not let them leave for fear of losing their human shields?

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Sorry i thought they were but i hope we can all agree that they are VERY unethical
No agreement, sorry. They are very effective weapons against dismounted soldiers and light vehicles.

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As ive said they are a crippled goverment ever since the civil war in 82
Then Israel is obligated to defend itself.

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I'm going to have to ask you the same thing, unfortunately the US media isnt well know for their validity, and while many know this they only apply it to the topics which they feel makes their arguments stronger and not the ones that weaken them.
While all this was occuring i was watching both the LBC (Lebanese Brdcst Chnl) and al-jazeera, i also watched CNN and Fox and it was amazing how different the two sides of the story are
Fortunately, I am in a position where I do not have to rely on the media for such information.

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Oh BTW nice car
Thanks, you too!
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      02-19-2007, 10:54 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
The conflict in Kosovo started a long time before we saw it on the news. It started between the KLA (US also proclaimed it and still does as the terrorist organization) and the Serbian Police. Very simple thing happened -- the KLA killed Serbian Policeman, they fired back at them. Then the KLA involved the citizens in the whole thing -- causing as we call it the colleteral damage here. But as I pointed out many times before -- when we kill thousands of innocent civilians and simply call them the colleteral damage that is OK, when others do it and if we stand with the other side for our interests -- then the justice (that we created) does not apply there.

Serbian forces did publically announce when and where they will attack when the war spread out, but that part was not shown on CNN or FOX for simple reasons -- it would not have played right with what came after that...

When you saw those reports of displaced people on the TV (800,000 of them), those were the people warned and driven by the Serbian forces out of there to save them. Otherwise, as you have pointed out before (US vs. axis of evil case), Milosevic had the power to wipe them all off in 3 days

So, you're saying if OBL did warn NYC of his intentions, all would have been cool and justified???
I am sure the residents of Donje Prekaz and Glodjane would dispute your version of events.

The World Trade Center was not a legitimate military target. No one was using the towers to launch attacks on another nation. Airliners full of civilians are not a legitimate weapon. Your inability to make moral distinctions is bizarre and sad.
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      02-19-2007, 11:03 PM   #125
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ganeil i think we can both go on for days like this, i usually hate politics but since my dad moved from Beruit during the war i usually take a strong stance on all issues dealing with Lebanon (I am 50% Lebanese), so i guess neither of us will buge and we can agree to disagree

PS: after reading my comments it seems if taken the wrong way it may seem like i support Hezbollah, just would like to say i dont, i just dont want to see Lebanon in ruble like 30ish years ago
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      02-19-2007, 11:13 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
I am sure the residents of Donje Prekaz and Glodjane would dispute your version of events.

The World Trade Center was not a legitimate military target. No one was using the towers to launch attacks on another nation. Airliners full of civilians are not a legitimate weapon. Your inability to make moral distinctions is bizarre and sad.
Hmmm...there was at least one media house in the twin towers. At least one! Do you agree?
TV Belgrade was the media house in Serbia that you claimed WAS a legitimate military target.

How's that???
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      02-19-2007, 11:22 PM   #127
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I am sure the residents of Donje Prekaz and Glodjane would dispute your version of events.
As much as you think you're good in this politics/war stuff, please do not even go into the Kosovo conflict as I can always get you more (first hand) info instead of your Govt publishings or FOX News data which is one-sided and useless...

Majority of the conflict was heavily fabricated to fit what came next, so...
Anyway, lets stick to the topic of justice for all...

If you allow nukes to Israel, allow them to Egypt, or...
If you bomb Serbia for their police doing something, bomb Israel for the same thing
If you tell me that the World towers were not the legitimate target (which I agree), how can you tell me that Serbian TV was??? Would CNN bilding in your neighborhood be OK?
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      02-20-2007, 12:13 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
As much as you think you're good in this politics/war stuff, please do not even go into the Kosovo conflict as I can always get you more (first hand) info instead of your Govt publishings or FOX News data which is one-sided and useless...

Majority of the conflict was heavily fabricated to fit what came next, so...
Anyway, lets stick to the topic of justice for all...

If you allow nukes to Israel, allow them to Egypt, or...
If you bomb Serbia for their police doing something, bomb Israel for the same thing
If you tell me that the World towers were not the legitimate target (which I agree), how can you tell me that Serbian TV was??? Would CNN bilding in your neighborhood be OK?
I do not accept your premise that all nations are equal. Israel with nukes is not a threat to the region, Iran would be.

Israel does not order its police to target civilians, Serbia did.

CNN would not be a legitimate target but the Voice of America would be if it wa being used to communicate to military forces.
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      02-20-2007, 12:45 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by snawaz View Post
Not at all. Our prophet Muhammed has told of the Palestinian muslim land being controlled by the zionists in the end times after being initially controlled by the muslims. But also that it will return to muslim hands one day with the coming of the Messiah. Enjoy your Zionist state for the time decreed to you by God.

Your prophet Muhammed told you??
There is no Palestinian Land! Don't you understand that. There never has been one and if the Palesteniens continue to blow themselves up and kill innocent people then their never will be.
And you keep on saying Zionist. You people kill me with that BS.
Just accept the fact that Israel is and will always be ISRAEL , the land of the jews.
Oh and when the Messiah returns it'll be Moses so I doubt he'll give you anything. Especially something that ain't yours.

Last edited by youyou; 02-20-2007 at 01:03 AM.
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      02-20-2007, 12:54 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by esbezee92 View Post
i never like to get into arguments like this but youyou's coments disgust me. you have no clue of what you are talking about and think since you yell the most you must be right

1.Hezbollah took 2 soldiers because Israel was holding almost 1000 innocent Lebanese citizens and a few members of Hezbollah
2. Hezbollah had three offensive attacks on Israeli soil while every single Israeli attack was against innocent Lebanese
3. Many people say that they cant be held responsible for this because they told the Lebanese to get out of the cities and towns, but i think most would agree this is pretty dificult to do when the few vital bridges in Lebanon were all bombed, leaving them litterly no way to get out
4. Israel commited numerous war crimes such as using cluster bombs and things of the sort
5. Finally people say that Israel should be allowed to do whatever they want to Hezbollah because they are a terrorist orginization and Lebanon is also at fault for backing them. This is not true, Lebanon didnt support Hezbollah but because of previous things that Israel has done to them they have been crippled for yearsand couldnt stop them themselves, also i support disorginizing groups like Hezbollah but this is not what Israel did, they bombed any part of Lebanon at will whether or not Hezbollah was there

These are a fraction of your incorrect arguments. please bring more up and i will be more than happy to refute them

First of all I don't yell.
Secondly : HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH there i was yelling
And lastly I understand your sentiments towards Israel because you are Lebanese and when your country countlessly hijacked planes and sent missiles into Israel and killed innoncent Israelis with suicide attacks back in the 80's Israel came in and destroyed everything with a just cause.
Until you understand that you don't mess with Israel then you borderline fanatics will eat the dust.
And let me stress the fact again and again that i'm not for war or the killing of innocent people. I have many Arab friends, christians and muslims and we get along like brothers.
But Israel will stand firm with anyone who messes with her. And unfortunately for you guys , since you dont seem to understand , everytime you mess with Israel you get whacked.
Just give it up already. You have many many beautiful and rich countries where you can all live happily.
But no, it's not about " Palestine" or the Palesteniens. It's about the fact that it's Israel and it's a jewish country standing for itself.
Now i'm out.
Peace
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      02-20-2007, 01:06 AM   #131
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I do not accept your premise that all nations are equal. Israel with nukes is not a threat to the region, Iran would be.

Israel does not order its police to target civilians, Serbia did.

CNN would not be a legitimate target but the Voice of America would be if it wa being used to communicate to military forces.
How do we know all that??? NK had the nuke for a few months, but did not touch the south. When US had the nule (in 1945) for a few months, it used it...

Your second statement is without ANY real support. Pure media line. Yes, Israel does order its police/military to do the colleteral damage. Yes, Serbian Govt did the same. They are the same.

Why wouldn't CNN be legitimate target -- it is the same as any other media house -- censored by the Govt.
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      02-20-2007, 01:08 AM   #132
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But Israel will stand firm with anyone who messes with her. And unfortunately for you guys , since you dont seem to understand , everytime you mess with Israel you get whacked.
Just give it up already. You have many many beautiful and rich countries where you can all live happily.
WOW!
All I can say is WOW
With that attitude there would be Israel, USA and GB in the world...
No thanks...
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