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      02-01-2007, 03:22 PM   #45
ganeil
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Actually, if it happened once, twice, 10, 20 people, I would not object.
But 1000 times and thousands of innocent civilians -- hell yes!
Someone should be responsible for that. Or then don't do it if you don't know how to do it properly...
Who said anything was done improperly? If a legitimate military target is placed in a civilian area, it is still a legitimate target. The responsibility for the civilian deaths rests with whoever put it there.
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      02-01-2007, 03:29 PM   #46
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anyone up for making a resistance group to burn draft cards like in vietnam????

(im not actually serious any army people who might be on this site)
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      02-01-2007, 04:17 PM   #47
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Who said anything was done improperly? If a legitimate military target is placed in a civilian area, it is still a legitimate target. The responsibility for the civilian deaths rests with whoever put it there.
WOW, this robot needs update...maybe Windows Vista?
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      02-01-2007, 06:39 PM   #48
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yea, these arguments are useless, nobody here is clearly budging, which is why the world is in the situation thats its in right now....damn, politics is DIRTY, and just downright nasty
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      02-01-2007, 07:53 PM   #49
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Ok i'm gonna put it clear for all the Israel haters here.
Terrorists must be wiped off the face of the planet. They are worthless scum that use civilians as shields and target civilians for countless murders.
Unfortunatey warfare is ugly but if that's what it takes to get rid of them then so be it. They disrupt the very foundation we live by. Democracy!!!
Now for all of you who said i watch too much Cnn and Fox and am blurred by the media i say this:
I lived in Israel, I saw the horrors with my own eyes. I saw a bus explode 50 feet from me and people decapitated all over. So i know exactly how it is.
To have to live in fear every day that you might blow up on a bus or get kidnapped and slaughtered is not Ideal people...
My father fought in the 6 day war my mother was in the army and if i had the chance to go and wipe these terrorists out of the face of the planet , i would do it in a heartbeat.
You people are the ones blurred by stupid articles and the media. Bringing some articles posted on the net... Are you for real??
Go live in Israel for a year or two and then come back and talk to me.
Yes the president of Iran is a madman and needs to be brought down and yes Hizbollah and all other terrorist cells need to wiped off the face of the planet.
Period
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      02-01-2007, 08:02 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by youyou View Post
Ok i'm gonna put it clear for all the Israel haters here.
Terrorists must be wiped off the face of the planet. They are worthless scum that use civilians as shields and target civilians for countless murders.
Unfortunatey warfare is ugly but if that's what it takes to get rid of them then so be it. They disrupt the very foundation we live by. Democracy!!!
Now for all of you who said i watch too much Cnn and Fox and am blurred by the media i say this:
I lived in Israel, I saw the horrors with my own eyes. I saw a bus explode 50 feet from me and people decapitated all over. So i know exactly how it is.
To have to live in fear every day that you might blow up on a bus or get kidnapped and slaughtered is not Ideal people...
My father fought in the 6 day war my mother was in the army and if i had the chance to go and wipe these terrorists out of the face of the planet , i would do it in a heartbeat.
You people are the ones blurred by stupid articles and the media. Bringing some articles posted on the net... Are you for real??
Go live in Israel for a year or two and then come back and talk to me.
Yes the president of Iran is a madman and needs to be brought down and yes Hizbollah and all other terrorist cells need to wiped off the face of the planet.
Period
I lived in Serbia.
I saw the bonbs blasting buildings around me 50 feet away.
My father fought WW2...

Terrorists are bad.
But for many...what we (and Israel do) is worse...
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      02-01-2007, 08:04 PM   #51
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BTW, no one here hates Israeli people. THey are people like everyone else -- Iranians, N Koreans...living in the cloud of dirty politics for many years...

The Governments need different direction
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      02-01-2007, 08:09 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youyou View Post
Ok i'm gonna put it clear for all the Israel haters here.
Terrorists must be wiped off the face of the planet. They are worthless scum that use civilians as shields and target civilians for countless murders.
Unfortunatey warfare is ugly but if that's what it takes to get rid of them then so be it. They disrupt the very foundation we live by. Democracy!!!
Now for all of you who said i watch too much Cnn and Fox and am blurred by the media i say this:
I lived in Israel, I saw the horrors with my own eyes. I saw a bus explode 50 feet from me and people decapitated all over. So i know exactly how it is.
To have to live in fear every day that you might blow up on a bus or get kidnapped and slaughtered is not Ideal people...
My father fought in the 6 day war my mother was in the army and if i had the chance to go and wipe these terrorists out of the face of the planet , i would do it in a heartbeat.
You people are the ones blurred by stupid articles and the media. Bringing some articles posted on the net... Are you for real??
Go live in Israel for a year or two and then come back and talk to me.
Yes the president of Iran is a madman and needs to be brought down and yes Hizbollah and all other terrorist cells need to wiped off the face of the planet.
Period
There is no real solution knocking off the terrorists of the map. No matter what, more innocent civilian lives will be lost then the terrorist extremists. First, go after the corrupt leaders and their plans to fulfill their "prophecies". I think the only way this violence will end is a cold down period, how do you achieve this state? well u must have a nuclear warfare on both sides. Also i think the media needs to do a better job on covering the real truth behind the lines.
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      02-01-2007, 08:19 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Terrorists are bad.
But for many...what we (and Israel do) is worse...
What does Israel do that even remotely compares to strapping a vest full of explosives on yourself, finding the greatest concentration of civilians you can and blowing them up?

The misguided moral equivalence you spout is astounding.
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      02-01-2007, 08:20 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youyou View Post
Ok i'm gonna put it clear for all the Israel haters here.
Terrorists must be wiped off the face of the planet. They are worthless scum that use civilians as shields and target civilians for countless murders.
Unfortunatey warfare is ugly but if that's what it takes to get rid of them then so be it. They disrupt the very foundation we live by. Democracy!!!
Now for all of you who said i watch too much Cnn and Fox and am blurred by the media i say this:
I lived in Israel, I saw the horrors with my own eyes. I saw a bus explode 50 feet from me and people decapitated all over. So i know exactly how it is.
To have to live in fear every day that you might blow up on a bus or get kidnapped and slaughtered is not Ideal people...
My father fought in the 6 day war my mother was in the army and if i had the chance to go and wipe these terrorists out of the face of the planet , i would do it in a heartbeat.
You people are the ones blurred by stupid articles and the media. Bringing some articles posted on the net... Are you for real??
Go live in Israel for a year or two and then come back and talk to me.
Yes the president of Iran is a madman and needs to be brought down and yes Hizbollah and all other terrorist cells need to wiped off the face of the planet.
Period
a politics and religion thread *cool*

I've been to Israel, to Nazareth, 4 wheeled up the Golan, stayed on a kibbutz, been on the sea of Galilee, ate dinner in Tiberius, and visited Jerusalem during the fall feasts.... I went shopping in Bethlehem, and even visited Ramallah before the intifada.......and I was overwhelmed seeing the places first hand that I knew from biblical Christianity.... it was AMAZING to me, and nothing short of it.

I support Israel 100%...

... even knowing that those in government there have incredibly difficult decisions to make, and might sometimes make debatable choices, but foremost I recognize that God gave that land to the Israelites, and their enemies wish to push them into the sea.

That's NOT a popular view, I am well aware, believe me, but in my heart is an unusual love for that land, and I am bold enough to say what I believe and think regardless of whether it is popular opinion or not.

I wish Jerusalem the peace that comes from being whole
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      02-01-2007, 09:14 PM   #55
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a politics and religion thread *cool*

I've been to Israel, to Nazareth, 4 wheeled up the Golan, stayed on a kibbutz, been on the sea of Galilee, ate dinner in Tiberius, and visited Jerusalem during the fall feasts.... I went shopping in Bethlehem, and even visited Ramallah before the intifada.......and I was overwhelmed seeing the places first hand that I knew from biblical Christianity.... it was AMAZING to me, and nothing short of it.

I support Israel 100%...

... even knowing that those in government there have incredibly difficult decisions to make, and might sometimes make debatable choices, but foremost I recognize that God gave that land to the Israelites, and their enemies wish to push them into the sea.

That's NOT a popular view, I am well aware, believe me, but in my heart is an unusual love for that land, and I am bold enough to say what I believe and think regardless of whether it is popular opinion or not.

I wish Jerusalem the peace that comes from being whole
Very well said.
The problem is , like you said " their enemies wish to push them into the sea."
and most people don't understand that.
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      02-01-2007, 09:14 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
What does Israel do that even remotely compares to strapping a vest full of explosives on yourself, finding the greatest concentration of civilians you can and blowing them up?

The misguided moral equivalence you spout is astounding.
+ 1
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      02-01-2007, 09:31 PM   #57
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Very well said.
The problem is , like you said " their enemies wish to push them into the sea."
and most people don't understand that.
Yes, I know. I'm sorry.

There isn't much compfort to that, at all really... unless any person has faith in the God of Israel, that no matter how bad things seem to get in future, he is real (to me), and there is a plan to it all. I believe that, anyway, and I don't know of anyone I consider more trustworthy than he.

I estimate most people today believe differently, though.
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      02-01-2007, 10:27 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
What does Israel do that even remotely compares to strapping a vest full of explosives on yourself, finding the greatest concentration of civilians you can and blowing them up?

The misguided moral equivalence you spout is astounding.
Strap the explosives to your body and walk into the crowded place, fly the highjacked airplane into the civilian building, drop the "guided" missile into the TV building full of civilian workers or fly a jet over Beirut and drop bombs into civilian targets -- all the same CRAP to me. There is no just side in any war if it included innocent civilians being killed.

You can say whatever you want -- who provoked who, who was oppressed for years, but that does not give the other side any reason to kill or hurt a single innocent civilian.

So, I don't care if you're catholic or Orthodox Christian, or a Jew or if you believe in Alah, or if you speak English or French...this madness needs to stop and innocent should not be killed. Some countries have realized that and did not want a part of all that in Iraq, on the other hand some other countries and groups are unstopable...

Peace to all!
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      02-01-2007, 10:58 PM   #59
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Strap the explosives to your body and walk into the crowded place, fly the highjacked airplane into the civilian building, drop the "guided" missile into the TV building full of civilian workers or fly a jet over Beirut and drop bombs into civilian targets -- all the same CRAP to me. There is no just side in any war if it included innocent civilians being killed.

You can say whatever you want -- who provoked who, who was oppressed for years, but that does not give the other side any reason to kill or hurt a single innocent civilian.

So, I don't care if you're catholic or Orthodox Christian, or a Jew or if you believe in Alah, or if you speak English or French...this madness needs to stop and innocent should not be killed. Some countries have realized that and did not want a part of all that in Iraq, on the other hand some other countries and groups are unstopable...

Peace to all!
Ok my friend go tell that to the terrorists and then when they stop we will as well.
Has Israel ever voluntarely attacked any other country? No i don't think so
Out of all the wars Israel has ever had has Israel always been the one that initiated them? No i don't think so.
I don't know if you realize but Israel only retaliates when they are either attacked or if a suicide bomber has blown himself up.
This madness will never stop until these madmen stop.
So yes peace would be great. Trust me I would love to buy a villa on the beach in Tel Aviv and have a family there but for now i'll stick to Montreal.
I don't want to worry when my kids go to school ( which i don't have yet but hopefully will one day).
And I applaud every single Israeli for being able to live in that fear every day.
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      02-01-2007, 11:03 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Strap the explosives to your body and walk into the crowded place, fly the highjacked airplane into the civilian building, drop the "guided" missile into the TV building full of civilian workers or fly a jet over Beirut and drop bombs into civilian targets -- all the same CRAP to me. There is no just side in any war if it included innocent civilians being killed.

You can say whatever you want -- who provoked who, who was oppressed for years, but that does not give the other side any reason to kill or hurt a single innocent civilian.

So, I don't care if you're catholic or Orthodox Christian, or a Jew or if you believe in Alah, or if you speak English or French...this madness needs to stop and innocent should not be killed. Some countries have realized that and did not want a part of all that in Iraq, on the other hand some other countries and groups are unstopable...

Peace to all!
IMO we all live in a world where everything that is won must be fought for- including the ground under our and your feet (Texas, in your case) which is either part of the USA or part of Mexico, depending on your desire and perspective. Really, would Texas not fight to exist if it came right down to it? You know it's the only state that reserved the right to secede from the union if it ever decided to-!
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      02-01-2007, 11:08 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youyou View Post
Ok my friend go tell that to the terrorists and then when they stop we will as well.
Has Israel ever voluntarely attacked any other country? No i don't think so
Out of all the wars Israel has ever had has Israel always been the one that initiated them? No i don't think so.
I don't know if you realize but Israel only retaliates when they are either attacked or if a suicide bomber has blown himself up.
This madness will never stop until these madmen stop.
So yes peace would be great. Trust me I would love to buy a villa on the beach in Tel Aviv and have a family there but for now i'll stick to Montreal.
I don't want to worry when my kids go to school ( which i don't have yet but hopefully will one day).
And I applaud every single Israeli for being able to live in that fear every day.
Are you a Jew?? You seem to get really offended when people talk against Israel. It's ok no need to hide it be proud.
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      02-01-2007, 11:09 PM   #62
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Are you a Jew?? You seem to get really offended when people talk against Israel. It's ok no need to hide it be proud.
Well, I'm Irish-protestant and it sure bugs me
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      02-01-2007, 11:14 PM   #63
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Ok my friend go tell that to the terrorists and then when they stop we will as well.
Has Israel ever voluntarely attacked any other country? No i don't think so
Out of all the wars Israel has ever had has Israel always been the one that initiated them? No i don't think so.
.
OK, lets be realistic now... Why is Israel "returning" the areas to Palestinians. Word "return" implies previously taken. Remember, there used to be this land called Palestine, that was erased in 1948. I am not an Arab nor a Jew, but I also heard of tough lives and tough times that those Palestinians fought for years...

Quote:
Originally Posted by youyou View Post
I don't know if you realize but Israel only retaliates when they are either attacked or if a suicide bomber has blown himself up.
This madness will never stop until these madmen stop.
So yes peace would be great. Trust me I would love to buy a villa on the beach in Tel Aviv and have a family there but for now i'll stick to Montreal.
I don't want to worry when my kids go to school ( which i don't have yet but hopefully will one day).
And I applaud every single Israeli for being able to live in that fear every day.

Again, I do realize that Israel had really tough time with it all for decades. But if the guy that belongs to some extremist group blows himself up and kills 10 Israelis, then Israel goes over there and kills 10 innocent and 3 bad guys -- that is what I don't accept from the civilized nation. That is the thing that automatically equates the good guys with the bad ones.

Example is Al Zarqawi -- we saw him from up there going to take a piss in his house and boom...gone. THere was no reason previously to blow up 20 other houses full of civilians because "we suspected he was in there"...
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      02-01-2007, 11:14 PM   #64
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Well...I've been following this whole thread and just want to throw one little fact into this whole mix. You guys maybe a little young to remember this but I give it a try. Remember when former President Jimmy Carter brokered a "peace" between Isreal and the Palistinian leadership so negiations could be given a chance? Isreal brought to the table a long list of demands...peace, live together but she wanted the United Nations to guarantee her safety. Arafat came to the table with a long list of demands, too. Isreal agreed to all of them except one which included the nation of Isreal being desolved.

One side has never intended to give an inch. History is clear as to what happened in the past...it will happen, again.

"There is no answer when there is no question".

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      02-01-2007, 11:26 PM   #65
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Well...I've been following this whole thread and just want to throw one little fact into this whole mix. You guys maybe a little young to remember this but I give it a try. Remember when former President Jimmy Carter brokered a "peace" between Isreal and the Palistinian leadership so negiations could be given a chance? Isreal brought to the table a long list of demands...peace, live together but she wanted the United Nations to guarantee her safety. Arafat came to the table with a long list of demands, too. Isreal agreed to all of them except one which included the nation of Isreal being desolved.

One side has never intended to give an inch. History is clear as to what happened in the past...it will happen, again.

"There is no answer when there is no question".

Call

Jimmy who? You mean Clinton wasn't our first president??
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      02-01-2007, 11:30 PM   #66
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Are you a Jew?? You seem to get really offended when people talk against Israel. It's ok no need to hide it be proud.
100% I'm jewish and proud.
Doesn't make a difference though. All men are equal in my eyes whether they be jewish , catholic , irish protestant , muslim etc...
But right and wrong is what i'm trying to portray here and in this case Israel is 100% right... Jewish or not.
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