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      10-22-2010, 03:42 PM   #23
aajami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prichards516 View Post
I ordered my car with the ZCP and i love it!! The EDC is amazing and i love the wider offset on the tires.
The wheels have a wider offset, but the tires on the 359Ms are the same size as those on the 220Ms.
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      10-22-2010, 03:47 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
The wheels have a wider offset, but the tires on the 359Ms are the same size as those on the 220Ms.
so are you saying that the zcp wheels has the same stance than non zcp w/ 19' wheels?
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      10-22-2010, 04:01 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geneatals View Post
so are you saying that the zcp wheels has the same stance than non zcp w/ 19' wheels?
No, I think he was only responding since you mentioned the tires in your post, making it slightly unclear what you meant. The tires are, in fact, identical regardless of which 19" wheel you get.

However, yes, it is still true that because the 359M give the M3 a slightly wider track, the outside edge of the tires thereby sticks out further than they do with the 220M. So yes, the stance is different. And anyway, the stance would be differenent regardless of that fact, since the ZCP also lowers the car's suspension slightly too.
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      10-22-2010, 04:20 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 008 View Post
I ordered without. I drove an edc car, a zcp car and standard car back to back and thought the differences were minute.
Most likely this will be my decision. I am not going to track my car and don't particularly feel I need or even want EDC. That combined with the desire for 220M and I'm going non ZCP. Now if I decide to go the route of the sedan and get a non zcp sedan, I will really be neutering this car. Not really, but some may think so.
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      10-22-2010, 05:00 PM   #27
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359M bigger than 220M, therefore 359M can take on bigger tires

Bigger Wheels+
Wider offset+
Lowered Suspension+
Remapped EDC+

How can anyone pass on this Performance Package genuine M Factory mod for some $2500?
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      10-22-2010, 05:03 PM   #28
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The car on 18s and no EDC will have 99.9999% of the ZCP capabilities on the street and on the track a set of R compounds will do more to lower lap times than EDC or wider wheels. In fact the wider and larger diameter wheels may be heavier to the point of being a handicap but I haven't checked the wieghts. I was just not impressed with EDC. I think the Porsche PASM system is much more pronounced and effective but everyone has different criteria. For resale I'm sure ZCP will be very important but that's not something I'm concerned with. This is first and foremost a street car for me that probably won't see 10 track days per year. I am pissed that the 18s aparently are no longer graphite but I should find out for sure as my car hit the dealer today.
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      10-22-2010, 05:06 PM   #29
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You may want to consider it for resale down the road depending on how long you keep your car. The competition package still commands a premium on E46s.
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      10-22-2010, 06:33 PM   #30
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[quote=dimabimmer;8205686]359M bigger than 220M, therefore 359M can take on bigger tires

QUOTE]

In case it may matter to you, the 220M wheels are forged whereas the 359M wheels are cast. BMW did the same thing with the ZCP on the E46 M3 wheels.
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      10-22-2010, 08:15 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 008 View Post
The car on 18s and no EDC will have 99.9999% of the ZCP capabilities on the street and on the track a set of R compounds will do more to lower lap times than EDC or wider wheels....
Seriously agree. Unless you already make a living driving on Sunday, the money spent for ZCP would do you better in a driving school if you really want to lower your lap times.

If you plan to track, I'd consider ZCP, but it's not the most important factor in getting the most from your ///M. Driver skill improvement will get you much further.
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      10-22-2010, 08:49 PM   #32
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[quote=BobsM3Coupe;8206151]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimabimmer View Post
359M bigger than 220M, therefore 359M can take on bigger tires

QUOTE]

In case it may matter to you, the 220M wheels are forged whereas the 359M wheels are cast. BMW did the same thing with the ZCP on the E46 M3 wheels.
BMW says 359M are forged, but you say otherwise... so who should I believe?

Here is the newest updated M3 brochure, see for yourself:


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      10-22-2010, 10:48 PM   #33
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... the 359M are not forged. This is the same exact false BMW advertisement as they did in 2005 for the E46 M3 ZCP.

Fooling twice is not even funny.
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      10-22-2010, 11:17 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
... the 359M are not forged. This is the same exact false BMW advertisement as they did in 2005 for the E46 M3 ZCP.

Fooling twice is not even funny.
What is this based on? I have seen numerous posts on this forum stating that the ZCP wheels are not forged when BMW marketing materials state the are forged. I am not trying to start a flame war, but I have not seen anything to substantiate the claim that the wheels are not forged.
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      10-22-2010, 11:24 PM   #35
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I was wondering when the forged/cast debate was going to begin.....
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      10-23-2010, 06:37 AM   #36
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here we go again
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      10-23-2010, 11:05 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLoven View Post
What is this based on? I have seen numerous posts on this forum stating that the ZCP wheels are not forged when BMW marketing materials state the are forged. I am not trying to start a flame war, but I have not seen anything to substantiate the claim that the wheels are not forged.
I answered the same question back in 2005... just look at the OEM price difference of the 359M wheel vs the real forged 220M. Then look at BMW's own parts database and find the only M3 wheel that states that it is FORGED... the 220M.
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      10-23-2010, 11:18 AM   #38
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      10-23-2010, 06:56 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
I answered the same question back in 2005... just look at the OEM price difference of the 359M wheel vs the real forged 220M. Then look at BMW's own parts database and find the only M3 wheel that states that it is FORGED... the 220M.
Thank you. I was going to make almost the exact same explanation, but you beat me to it.

Hopefully this will be the final answer to those that think the 359M wheels are forged. But I doubt it.
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      10-23-2010, 08:12 PM   #40
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Go ZCP, and Sedan !
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      10-23-2010, 08:29 PM   #41
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zcp if remaining stock, no if going to mod
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      10-23-2010, 08:33 PM   #42
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I have a ZCP so please understand where I am coming from. I got the ZCP because I love the wheels and for $2500 I thought it was a great deal. However, I read advise that if you track get the ZCP if you don't track you don't need it. Even if you track the ZCP package is not enough..the brakes need reinforcement, you need to switch out to R compound tires and at wider width plus a host of other enhancements. Even a non ZCP car can enjoy a good DE as long as you aren't driving over 8/10s of the cars capability. A ZCP car well at 8.5/10s.

You know I do notice the 10mm lower suspension, its nothing drastic like a set of KWs or such but I do notice it..its subtle and it is the perfect height for me. Thats why 99% of the people who get the ZCP really probably only do it for the wheels and the slightly lower ride height..not because they are going to track the car.
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      10-23-2010, 08:36 PM   #43
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      10-23-2010, 10:58 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
I answered the same question back in 2005... just look at the OEM price difference of the 359M wheel vs the real forged 220M. Then look at BMW's own parts database and find the only M3 wheel that states that it is FORGED... the 220M.
Buts thats just a reasoned opinion and not at all conclusive. All that tells me is that the 220M is forged. Does it say the 359M is cast? And just because there is a price difference doesn't necessarily mean 359M is not forged. Aren't these wheels manufactured by different companies? There is more that goes into pricing than materials and method of construction, such as marketing, equipment, facilities, etc.
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