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      10-19-2010, 03:52 AM   #23
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All of these cars can go an automotive version of biggest loser
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      10-19-2010, 04:29 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis View Post
Taken from Insideline.com
Thanks!

Now I understand the why in US the numbers are like that.

I've been wondering why Euro models with higher hp outputs and +99 octane fuel gets slower times than the US models..
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      10-19-2010, 07:22 AM   #25
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Interesting. Thanks for posting.
+1..very useful
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      10-19-2010, 07:49 AM   #26
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For DD Alpina is the best: good performances and a better fuel consumption than its competitors; other than that M3 coupe is the right choice
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      10-19-2010, 08:11 AM   #27
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A German Magazine picks German cars for the first 3 slots.
Don't hate
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      10-19-2010, 08:36 AM   #28
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I just drove the CTS-V this past weekend on the track as part of the CTS-V performance lab and I can tell you the car is much faster than what this magazine publishes. Yeah it doesn't have the track carving ability of the M3, but I'd rank the CTS-V above the Alpina, Merc and IS-F any day of the week.

The raw power of that car is just fantastic.
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      10-19-2010, 09:14 AM   #29
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Hi guys,

the report is drafted by the German AutoBild. As a German I don´t give a shit on those tests - AutoBild is quite incompetent, particularly the times driven on the racetracks are sometimes beyond ridiculous. Actually, there´s only one German car magazine which is competent - SportAuto.

The C63 AMG has certainly more power than the M3, but the M3 is the faster car on the racetrack, assuming that somebody is able to drive the car to its limits.

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      10-19-2010, 10:05 AM   #30
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I can't believe the 0-60 discrepancies between the car mags.

The M3 should be listed as: 0-60 - 3.9 to 4.4
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      10-19-2010, 11:23 AM   #31
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probably due to the extra torque it has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis View Post
Interesting that the C63, even with its ~250-300 lb disadvantage bested both the M3 and the CTS. You would think if it beat the M3 that the circuit would be more of a power track, but then the CTS should've pulled in a much better time. The track might've been just right for the C63's combination of power and weight.



Check the more important specs. 0-200 km/h clearly shows the Caddy stomping everyone else. 14s vs the M3's 15.6s. That's definitely not faster.


All these launches are slower than the auto review averages. 0.2s slower to 60 could be chalked up to nothing more than traction issues as a result of poor surfaces. Or not factoring in rollout (which I can't stand) like most US mags do. Or even the fact that 100 km/h translates to 62 mph, not 60.
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      10-19-2010, 11:27 AM   #32
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C63 vs M3

well I have been driving a C63 for a little over a year now and have had the chance to drive an M3 coupe (09) many times during that year (father has one). We both agree that they are both outstanding machines and both of us would be happy with either one. I am normally a BMW fan, but couldn't pass on the discount Mercedes was giving on the C63 ($14K off, brand new).

anyway, the biggest difference we could tell between the cars was feel of power/speed and agility. Driving the C63 everyday and then getting into the M3 I can say the M3 feels lighter and more agile even if its only 275 pounds lighter. The C63 on the other hand feels a ton more powerful even though they are similar/same at 0-60 times. The extra 37 horsepower might just offset the weight but where you feel the power is teh torque, it is about 440lb compared to 300lb on the M3. My dad was even shocked at how different the excelleration felt, he thought for sure my car was faster because of that torque power feeling. So when you see that the C63 can pull off 3.9 or 4.0 and the M3 is normally around 4.2-4.3 depending on the magazine, that is why, yeah its heavier with only 37 more horsepower, but that 140lb of extra torque goes a long way. If I could buy either car at the same price it would be a tough choice, I am so in love with the seats in the AMG, they are better than the M3 and overall driving experience is great, but I still love M's (have owned two in the past). One thing is for sure, I would take either of them anyday over the Lexus or Cadillac, they are much nicer cars all around, Lexus is too new to the high performance game and Cadillac still feels cheap inside to me. And I don't like how they use the 3.9 time in their commercials, all car manufacturers should use "real times" like the Germans do you don't see BMW with M3 commercials saying 4.1 seconds 0-60...

All that said, I can't wait for the new crop of compact performance cars from Mercedes and BMW, now it will be a MPG war instead of power war, I think the 4.0 second time is the standard and no reason to better that in a car that cost under $100K, now get us 20 mpg on average instead of 15-16!
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      10-19-2010, 11:37 AM   #33
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I talked to Frank about the times.

As already discussed, they don't use roll-out like the American mags do.

The Inside-line article explains it pretty well. Personally, I agree, it's stated as 0-60, not roll-out to 60. As well for the German mags it's actually 0 (no roll-out) to 62, which, as mentioned makes several tenths of a difference.

So with all the above taken in, not hard to believe the difference going from 3-5mph-60, vs 0-62mph.

For the Merc, it is mentioned in the article that it was run on 18" (Continental) tires, as apparently with the 19" Michelin's the handling was particularly bad (understeer) and it was 2.5 sec slower.
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      10-19-2010, 11:58 AM   #34
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No Audi showing in this comparo? I think thats the real competition here.
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      10-19-2010, 12:38 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
that is why, yeah its heavier with only 37 more horsepower, but that 140lb of extra torque goes a long way.
Now to put it in perspective, the CTS-V has an additional 107lb/ft on top of what your C63 AMG has.

The CTS-V has a 7.6 lb/hp ratio. And I'm not sure if you've ever actually sat in one, but the interior is actually quite nice.
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      10-19-2010, 02:12 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
well I have been driving a C63 for a little over a year now and have had the chance to drive an M3 coupe (09) many times during that year (father has one). We both agree that they are both outstanding machines and both of us would be happy with either one. I am normally a BMW fan, but couldn't pass on the discount Mercedes was giving on the C63 ($14K off, brand new).

anyway, the biggest difference we could tell between the cars was feel of power/speed and agility. Driving the C63 everyday and then getting into the M3 I can say the M3 feels lighter and more agile even if its only 275 pounds lighter. The C63 on the other hand feels a ton more powerful even though they are similar/same at 0-60 times. The extra 37 horsepower might just offset the weight but where you feel the power is teh torque, it is about 440lb compared to 300lb on the M3. My dad was even shocked at how different the excelleration felt, he thought for sure my car was faster because of that torque power feeling. So when you see that the C63 can pull off 3.9 or 4.0 and the M3 is normally around 4.2-4.3 depending on the magazine, that is why, yeah its heavier with only 37 more horsepower, but that 140lb of extra torque goes a long way. If I could buy either car at the same price it would be a tough choice, I am so in love with the seats in the AMG, they are better than the M3 and overall driving experience is great, but I still love M's (have owned two in the past). One thing is for sure, I would take either of them anyday over the Lexus or Cadillac, they are much nicer cars all around, Lexus is too new to the high performance game and Cadillac still feels cheap inside to me. And I don't like how they use the 3.9 time in their commercials, all car manufacturers should use "real times" like the Germans do you don't see BMW with M3 commercials saying 4.1 seconds 0-60...

All that said, I can't wait for the new crop of compact performance cars from Mercedes and BMW, now it will be a MPG war instead of power war, I think the 4.0 second time is the standard and no reason to better that in a car that cost under $100K, now get us 20 mpg on average instead of 15-16!


too each his own. I do own one BMW and am looking at another (new 5 series).

But My V will run 3.9 (on Gtech) repeatedly with a best of 3.7 so far. And it I drove the the amg before I got the V--it had nowhere near the steering feel, or power. Felt slow.
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      10-19-2010, 03:15 PM   #37
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totally agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
well I have been driving a C63 for a little over a year now and have had the chance to drive an M3 coupe (09) many times during that year (father has one). We both agree that they are both outstanding machines and both of us would be happy with either one. I am normally a BMW fan, but couldn't pass on the discount Mercedes was giving on the C63 ($14K off, brand new).

anyway, the biggest difference we could tell between the cars was feel of power/speed and agility. Driving the C63 everyday and then getting into the M3 I can say the M3 feels lighter and more agile even if its only 275 pounds lighter. The C63 on the other hand feels a ton more powerful even though they are similar/same at 0-60 times. The extra 37 horsepower might just offset the weight but where you feel the power is teh torque, it is about 440lb compared to 300lb on the M3. My dad was even shocked at how different the excelleration felt, he thought for sure my car was faster because of that torque power feeling. So when you see that the C63 can pull off 3.9 or 4.0 and the M3 is normally around 4.2-4.3 depending on the magazine, that is why, yeah its heavier with only 37 more horsepower, but that 140lb of extra torque goes a long way. If I could buy either car at the same price it would be a tough choice, I am so in love with the seats in the AMG, they are better than the M3 and overall driving experience is great, but I still love M's (have owned two in the past). One thing is for sure, I would take either of them anyday over the Lexus or Cadillac, they are much nicer cars all around, Lexus is too new to the high performance game and Cadillac still feels cheap inside to me. And I don't like how they use the 3.9 time in their commercials, all car manufacturers should use "real times" like the Germans do you don't see BMW with M3 commercials saying 4.1 seconds 0-60...

All that said, I can't wait for the new crop of compact performance cars from Mercedes and BMW, now it will be a MPG war instead of power war, I think the 4.0 second time is the standard and no reason to better that in a car that cost under $100K, now get us 20 mpg on average instead of 15-16!
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      10-19-2010, 03:30 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffnbluff View Post
I just drove the CTS-V this past weekend on the track as part of the CTS-V performance lab and I can tell you the car is much faster than what this magazine publishes. Yeah it doesn't have the track carving ability of the M3, but I'd rank the CTS-V above the Alpina, Merc and IS-F any day of the week.

The raw power of that car is just fantastic.
with the possible exception of the M3- the Cts-v is going to beat these other cars around the track.. sorry--it just is
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      10-19-2010, 03:58 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
well I have been driving a C63 for a little over a year now and have had the chance to drive an M3 coupe (09) many times during that year (father has one). We both agree that they are both outstanding machines and both of us would be happy with either one. I am normally a BMW fan, but couldn't pass on the discount Mercedes was giving on the C63 ($14K off, brand new).

anyway, the biggest difference we could tell between the cars was feel of power/speed and agility. Driving the C63 everyday and then getting into the M3 I can say the M3 feels lighter and more agile even if its only 275 pounds lighter. The C63 on the other hand feels a ton more powerful even though they are similar/same at 0-60 times. The extra 37 horsepower might just offset the weight but where you feel the power is teh torque, it is about 440lb compared to 300lb on the M3. My dad was even shocked at how different the excelleration felt, he thought for sure my car was faster because of that torque power feeling. So when you see that the C63 can pull off 3.9 or 4.0 and the M3 is normally around 4.2-4.3 depending on the magazine, that is why, yeah its heavier with only 37 more horsepower, but that 140lb of extra torque goes a long way. If I could buy either car at the same price it would be a tough choice, I am so in love with the seats in the AMG, they are better than the M3 and overall driving experience is great, but I still love M's (have owned two in the past). One thing is for sure, I would take either of them anyday over the Lexus or Cadillac, they are much nicer cars all around, Lexus is too new to the high performance game and Cadillac still feels cheap inside to me. And I don't like how they use the 3.9 time in their commercials, all car manufacturers should use "real times" like the Germans do you don't see BMW with M3 commercials saying 4.1 seconds 0-60...

All that said, I can't wait for the new crop of compact performance cars from Mercedes and BMW, now it will be a MPG war instead of power war, I think the 4.0 second time is the standard and no reason to better that in a car that cost under $100K, now get us 20 mpg on average instead of 15-16!
I can vouch for the amazing seats in the AMG. They're unmatched in this class (although I've yet to see how the RS5's stack up). I've logged a couple thousand miles on my mother's C63 over the past two years and my main beef with it revolves around its balance, or lack thereof. You can really tell that it loads up its tires unevenly during hard cornering. It loves to understeer. Plus the transmission input lag is god-awful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srt8/bmw View Post
too each his own. I do own one BMW and am looking at another (new 5 series).

But My V will run 3.9 (on Gtech) repeatedly with a best of 3.7 so far. And it I drove the the amg before I got the V--it had nowhere near the steering feel, or power. Felt slow.
Haven't had a chance to get behind the wheel of a CTS-V, but my friend owns one and he's given me rides in it. I get that stronger push of torque in my back, but I'm not a fan of the car overall in terms of interior fit/finish and especially exhaust note. Love the car, but not sure if I'd pick it over a C63/M3 despite its pricing advantage.

My thinking as to why the C63 doesn't feel as fast as its torque number suggest is that it has an extremely linear power curve. My 335i, when it was tuned, had an even greater sense of urgency under WOT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srt8/bmw View Post
with the possible exception of the M3- the Cts-v is going to beat these other cars around the track.. sorry--it just is
This should depend on the track. No doubt the V would win on a power-biased track. I don't think it would win outright on any layout though.
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      10-19-2010, 06:27 PM   #40
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Lol, get the Lexus IS-F out of there and put in the Mustang 5.0
Lexus IS-F (with LSD) over Mustang anyday...sit in one, and you'll agree, furthermore, the Lexus is a true M3 sedan rival, the Mustang is not.
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      10-19-2010, 06:29 PM   #41
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the win just keep coming. hehe
yup
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      10-19-2010, 07:47 PM   #42
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Lexus IS-F (with LSD) over Mustang anyday...sit in one, and you'll agree, furthermore, the Lexus is a true M3 sedan rival, the Mustang is not.
Sit in two cars to decide which performs better? Hmm

I'm willing to bet the Mustang 5.0 would make the Lexus IS-F look silly on the track...
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      10-19-2010, 08:53 PM   #43
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Insideline compared the CTS-V sedan with the C63 and M5 over a year ago...

http://www.insideline.com/cadillac/c...-benz-c63.html

On straight line comparisons, I don't think I have ever seen any comparison where the M3 or C63 has bested the Caddy.
As already mentioned, different track set ups will favor different cars.
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      10-19-2010, 10:01 PM   #44
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what does DKG stand for on the M3??

also it looks like the Merc may have had a track wheel/tire setup as it is listed with 18's and diff tires while the others from what i could tell all had 19's and same tires PS2's. i am not familar with that conti tire though so it may not be a track tire??
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