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      02-05-2011, 11:37 AM   #331
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New
Why?
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      02-05-2011, 01:53 PM   #332
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I mean new speculations. For me it looks very realistic and I hope it will be close to that.
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      02-05-2011, 02:36 PM   #333
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      07-31-2011, 05:17 AM   #334
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Other thoughts

I know there is little sence to talk about this, especially for those than can profit from the M3 E9X today, but I know I won't be getting it for quite many reasons. For this reason I am very excited about the next generation M3, that might be the only BMW I'd wish to own. However I'll continue with some other ideas based on the last BMW releases.

New name, new style

We now know there won't be any 3 Series Coupé anymore, but a 4 Series Coupé. For the M version it means the M3 will have to be called M4. For me this is not a problem, as a turboed M3 is no M3 anymore. At BMW's place I would write the M3 story to an end with a limited edtion M3 CSL (E92), as the last naturally aspirated M3 and M Car and start a new story with the M4. However this seams not to be the case, and BMW may still give the 4 Series M the name "M3". It is confusing because the number is lower than number 4 and some may think it is the M version of the 3 Series. In other words, avarage people will see the 4 Series with number 3 and think it is inferior.

It came to my mind, as the 3 Series Coupé E92, even being built on the base of the 3 Series Sedan E90, looks very different, except the interior that is exactly the same, so the M3 F32 may look very different compared to the 4 Series F32.
Why so? The M3 F32 is to feature the most advanced amount of CF technology in order to save wieght, and this time not only CF on the roof, but also the hood, the trunk, the doors and maybe even some parts of the chassis, however do not expect it to get a full CF shell as the Aventador or MP4-12C. The fact being, most parts will have to be redesigned compared to the 4 Series F32, BMW can permit it to look very different in style, it could maybe even be lower than the 4 Series Coupé. The M3 F32 would then only get the windows of the 4er F32 and maybe door shape, but the rear quarter panel would in any case be different as they are already today. In this way the M3 F32 could be seen as a standalone M Car, based on the 4 Series F32, that infact is based on the 3 Series F30. This would put the M3 on an even more exclusive position, and be put easely above let us say a 435i F32. The only downside of this, is that BMW could rise the price quite alot, lets just hope not that much, unless it really is VERY FAST and has PERFECT HANDLING.


Some/Many complane(d) the M3 is too similar to a normal 3 Series, and this time it could change. In fact it could even recieve a different key, probably with the traditional M colors, just as we saw the 1 Series F20 with a normal black key, a black key with red insert or white inserd, or the beige key in the 3 Series F30 prototype. I think there might then be many of such tiny details that cold make quite a huge difference. (Please don't tell me you don't care about this, otherwise you'd get an Elise and would not say RS5 and C 63 AMG interior looks betther than M3's).


No manual tranny!

It was said the M3 F32 may no more get any manual transmission and only a DCT one standard. I like manual transmissions, but if there won't be any, would be even happier, because......

Just look, the 458 Italia is the best sportscar today, it only comes with oe of the best dualclutch gearboxes on the market, manual is not available. The MP4-12C that tried to beat it, also only comes with dualclutch and no manual. Lamborghini said, the Gallardo is the last one, to offer a manual gearbox. AMG and RS already do not offer any manual gearboxes, except the R8 and TT-RS, but I would also see it disapear. The only one left is Porsche, but of them are sold with PDK.

But for me, just looking at others is not the point for leaving the M3 F32 without manual transmission, it is more from a technical point of view:

I would really love if the M3 F32 came with only a DCT transmission, but transaxle, just like the Maserati Granturismo, Ferrari 599 GTB/GTO, Ferrari FF, Lexus LF-A, Mercedes SLS AMG and the M3 GT2. It is not easy/possbile to make a manual transaxle gearbox, but as an automatic, sequential or dualclutch it is. For what purpose? To have an eaven better balance, and so emulate a rear-mid-engine sportscar. The M3 F32 getting a 3,3l V6, that is shorter than the V8, will push the engine even further behind, with the gearbox at the rear axle, the wieght distribution could be of 48:52. This would also be of good advantage for gripp, kowing the M3 will have more torque. Such a consturction would then also reduce the costs in building the racecars, such as the M3 GT2, as most will already be done on the production vehicle.
And what then about the hard-core pure racers that want pure feeling? I think there will be nothing more in the coming years, but the now the M2 F22 would take care of those, with a normal manual gearbox placed as usually just at the engine.




Does all this make any sence? If BMW wants the M3 to be still untouchable, then yes. The rivals actual caught up the M3, when you looks at the RS5, C AMG, IS-F and who knows whats is coming more. If BMW only wants to build PRIUS'S, than I am sorry, but BMW is no more the car to desire.
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      07-31-2011, 08:00 AM   #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin(OKC) View Post
Just a slight correction:

M3 E30: 15"
and E92 was 18" standard with 19" optional
not
"M3 E9X: 19" and also 18""
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      07-31-2011, 08:09 AM   #336
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And this is why I ordered mine with a 6MT. I love the DCT (BMW programmed it right and made it sporty, unlike VW did with the DSG where they tried to have it mimmick a slushbox auto), but I have a hunch that the next time around, I won't have the choice, so 6MT it is for now.

I do wish that all manufacturers will keep offering manuals, but a trip to any showroom will prove that almost all are available in auto. You'd be hard pressed to find 6MT M3s on the lot here in socal. I've only run across two, out of the dozens that I've seen.
VW is actually going back to a manual for the upcoming '13 R (replacement for the R32), after the DSG only last one did not sell well. They now understand that the enthusiast market still demands a manual.
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      07-31-2011, 11:59 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
VW is actually going back to a manual for the upcoming '13 R (replacement for the R32), after the DSG only last one did not sell well. They now understand that the enthusiast market still demands a manual.
Indeed.

Hopefully, for enthusiasts' and BMW's sake, the powers that be at BMW will realize the marketing and brand image folly of putting all of their eggs in the DCT basket.
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      07-31-2011, 12:27 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I know there is little sence to talk about this, especially for those than can profit from the M3 E9X today, but I know I won't be getting it for quite many reasons. For this reason I am very excited about the next generation M3, that might be the only BMW I'd wish to own. However I'll continue with some other ideas based on the last BMW releases.

New name, new style

We now know there won't be any 3 Series Coupé anymore, but a 4 Series Coupé. For the M version it means the M3 will have to be called M4. For me this is not a problem, as a turboed M3 is no M3 anymore. At BMW's place I would write the M3 story to an end with a limited edtion M3 CSL (E92), as the last naturally aspirated M3 and M Car and start a new story with the M4. However this seams not to be the case, and BMW may still give the 4 Series M the name "M3". It is confusing because the number is lower than number 4 and some may think it is the M version of the 3 Series. In other words, avarage people will see the 4 Series with number 3 and think it is inferior.

It came to my mind, as the 3 Series Coupé E92, even being built on the base of the 3 Series Sedan E90, looks very different, except the interior that is exactly the same, so the M3 F32 may look very different compared to the 4 Series F32.
Why so? The M3 F32 is to feature the most advanced amount of CF technology in order to save wieght, and this time not only CF on the roof, but also the hood, the trunk, the doors and maybe even some parts of the chassis, however do not expect it to get a full CF shell as the Aventador or MP4-12C. The fact being, most parts will have to be redesigned compared to the 4 Series F32, BMW can permit it to look very different in style, it could maybe even be lower than the 4 Series Coupé. The M3 F32 would then only get the windows of the 4er F32 and maybe door shape, but the rear quarter panel would in any case be different as they are already today. In this way the M3 F32 could be seen as a standalone M Car, based on the 4 Series F32, that infact is based on the 3 Series F30. This would put the M3 on an even more exclusive position, and be put easely above let us say a 435i F32. The only downside of this, is that BMW could rise the price quite alot, lets just hope not that much, unless it really is VERY FAST and has PERFECT HANDLING.


Some/Many complane(d) the M3 is too similar to a normal 3 Series, and this time it could change. In fact it could even recieve a different key, probably with the traditional M colors, just as we saw the 1 Series F20 with a normal black key, a black key with red insert or white inserd, or the beige key in the 3 Series F30 prototype. I think there might then be many of such tiny details that cold make quite a huge difference. (Please don't tell me you don't care about this, otherwise you'd get an Elise and would not say RS5 and C 63 AMG interior looks betther than M3's).


No manual tranny!

It was said the M3 F32 may no more get any manual transmission and only a DCT one standard. I like manual transmissions, but if there won't be any, would be even happier, because......

Just look, the 458 Italia is the best sportscar today, it only comes with oe of the best dualclutch gearboxes on the market, manual is not available. The MP4-12C that tried to beat it, also only comes with dualclutch and no manual. Lamborghini said, the Gallardo is the last one, to offer a manual gearbox. AMG and RS already do not offer any manual gearboxes, except the R8 and TT-RS, but I would also see it disapear. The only one left is Porsche, but of them are sold with PDK.

But for me, just looking at others is not the point for leaving the M3 F32 without manual transmission, it is more from a technical point of view:

I would really love if the M3 F32 came with only a DCT transmission, but transaxle, just like the Maserati Granturismo, Ferrari 599 GTB/GTO, Ferrari FF, Lexus LF-A, Mercedes SLS AMG and the M3 GT2. It is not easy/possbile to make a manual transaxle gearbox, but as an automatic, sequential or dualclutch it is. For what purpose? To have an eaven better balance, and so emulate a rear-mid-engine sportscar. The M3 F32 getting a 3,3l V6, that is shorter than the V8, will push the engine even further behind, with the gearbox at the rear axle, the wieght distribution could be of 48:52. This would also be of good advantage for gripp, kowing the M3 will have more torque. Such a consturction would then also reduce the costs in building the racecars, such as the M3 GT2, as most will already be done on the production vehicle.
And what then about the hard-core pure racers that want pure feeling? I think there will be nothing more in the coming years, but the now the M2 F22 would take care of those, with a normal manual gearbox placed as usually just at the engine.




Does all this make any sence? If BMW wants the M3 to be still untouchable, then yes. The rivals actual caught up the M3, when you looks at the RS5, C AMG, IS-F and who knows whats is coming more. If BMW only wants to build PRIUS'S, than I am sorry, but BMW is no more the car to desire.

Doing away with manual is stoopid. What they need to do is advance MTs like they have been the DCT. The M3 6MT gearbox is shit compared to what it could be. If they would invest a little money on that, they could easily offer amazing MT option ALONGSIDE the DCT option.

And if it's called the M4, has three turbos on it, and doesn't come in manual, I am f-king done. On to a GT3 for me.
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      07-31-2011, 01:43 PM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40 View Post
And if it's called the M4, has three turbos on it, and doesn't come in manual, I am f-king done. On to a GT3 for me.
I think you missed to point of the M3. It is a sportscar/racecar for the street (unfortunately there are speed limits). A sportscar has only two seats and is all focused on performance and handling. An M3 will never be better than an R8, 911 or Ferrari. However it has 4 seats and is more practical, better as daily driver and also costs less. Even now with NA V8 and MT the 911 GT3 is still the better car.
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      07-31-2011, 03:06 PM   #340
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40 View Post
And if it's called the M4, has three turbos on it, and doesn't come in manual, I am f-king done. On to a GT3 for me.
I think you missed to point of the M3. It is a sportscar/racecar for the street (unfortunately there are speed limits). A sportscar has only two seats and is all focused on performance and handling. An M3 will never be better than an R8, 911 or Ferrari. However it has 4 seats and is more practical, better as daily driver and also costs less. Even now with NA V8 and MT the 911 GT3 is still the better car.
Maybe it's time I get a dedicated fun/track car and a true DD. The more the M3 turns into the jack of all trades the less I like it. I want it to specialize in performance and handing. Don't care about 4 seats or two, luxury, etc.
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      07-31-2011, 03:29 PM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I think you missed to point of the M3. It is a sportscar/racecar for the street (unfortunately there are speed limits). A sportscar has only two seats and is all focused on performance and handling. An M3 will never be better than an R8, 911 or Ferrari. However it has 4 seats and is more practical, better as daily driver and also costs less. Even now with NA V8 and MT the 911 GT3 is still the better car.




The M3 matches the R8 V8. Watch as it pulls back lost ground. That's a 6spd. I don't think the DCT would of lost any ground.

P.S. Also notice that was a civic M3. Not a ZCP one.
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      07-31-2011, 05:10 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40 View Post
Maybe it's time I get a dedicated fun/track car and a true DD. The more the M3 turns into the jack of all trades the less I like it. I want it to specialize in performance and handing. Don't care about 4 seats or two, luxury, etc.
That's exactly what I did, except I spread my eggs into 3 fun baskets. For the price of a loaded E92 M3 I got:

- A pristine/rare 2005 E46 M3

- A perfect little track car in a the form of 1975 911 S that was already set up for the track by the previous owner.

- A brand new 2011 SRT8 Challenger (with the new 6.4L 470hp/470ft-lb. engine) in stick shift that is an amazing dailiy with massive torque. It even gets better gas milage than the E92 M3.


I was strongly considering an E92 M3 a couple years back, but I definitely made the right decision, for me at least. My only regret is missing out on doing European Delivery. I realized my biggest reason for wanting an E92 M3 was so I could do European Delivery, and not for the car itself which did not meet my wants and desires as an enthusiasts sports car.

It's kind of sad what has happened to the M3 and BMW in general, and the only near term solution would be a 1M CSL or E92 M3 CSL. Clearly there is going to be an E92 M3 CSL of sorts as the CFRP E90 M3 will obviously have a Coupe version made in the near future. However it surely won't come to the US.

Just drop the S65 in the 1M for the 1M's second model year and be done with it already.
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      07-31-2011, 07:13 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post


The M3 matches the R8 V8. Watch as it pulls back lost ground. That's a 6spd. I don't think the DCT would of lost any ground.

P.S. Also notice that was a civic M3. Not a ZCP one.
True if straight line speed is all that matters to you. I always get frustrated when people brag about stop light race ability (not saying that is what you are doing). ANY car can be made to be stupid fast in a straight line and just because the R8 (V8) and M3 are comparable for straight line speed doesn't mean a lot IMO.

The M3, as much as I love it, is not an R8 on a track or in the twisties. It is not as pure of a sports car. It is very close and price/performance is arguably better but price aside, it is NOT an R8. The M3 is more practical, more comfortable and 95% of the performance but if I wanted a pure weekend/track car and money didn't matter, I would pick the R8. The reason I own an M3... and the reason I believe the F3x M3 will be in my garage... is because it is the best overall compromise available. You get a little R8, a little 911 GT3, and a little regular 3 series.

For those who say the M3 is too soft, I don't agree. I have driven the 911S, an R8 and been in a GT3 at the track and the M3 is not as pure of a sports car as any of those three but it is NOT soft... it is very capable and will hang with those cars on the track (well, maybe not with the GT3 but that is in another leaque). It is more "comfortable" than the others for daily use but not "soft".
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      07-31-2011, 08:31 PM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
True if straight line speed is all that matters to you. I always get frustrated when people brag about stop light race ability (not saying that is what you are doing). ANY car can be made to be stupid fast in a straight line and just because the R8 (V8) and M3 are comparable for straight line speed doesn't mean a lot IMO.

The M3, as much as I love it, is not an R8 on a track or in the twisties. It is not as pure of a sports car. It is very close and price/performance is arguably better but price aside, it is NOT an R8. The M3 is more practical, more comfortable and 95% of the performance but if I wanted a pure weekend/track car and money didn't matter, I would pick the R8. The reason I own an M3... and the reason I believe the F3x M3 will be in my garage... is because it is the best overall compromise available. You get a little R8, a little 911 GT3, and a little regular 3 series.

For those who say the M3 is too soft, I don't agree. I have driven the 911S, an R8 and been in a GT3 at the track and the M3 is not as pure of a sports car as any of those three but it is NOT soft... it is very capable and will hang with those cars on the track (well, maybe not with the GT3 but that is in another leaque). It is more "comfortable" than the others for daily use but not "soft".
You really can't compare the two together. The R8 is a midengined super car and the M3 is a front engined grocery getter. It's just impressive for the M3 to keep up with the R8 in a straight line nonetheless. On the track, it's a different story.
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      07-31-2011, 08:49 PM   #345
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Thank you very much for posting, looks like I need to find out when the best time is to purchase an e92 M3 (6MT).
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      08-01-2011, 12:32 PM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HBspeed View Post
It's kind of sad what has happened to the M3 and BMW in general, and the only near term solution would be a 1M CSL or E92 M3 CSL. Clearly there is going to be an E92 M3 CSL of sorts as the CFRP E90 M3 will obviously have a Coupe version made in the near future. However it surely won't come to the US.

Just drop the S65 in the 1M for the 1M's second model year and be done with it already.
No, the M3 CSL E92 won't come to the US. But also, seeing how were priced the M3 GTS E92 and M3 CRT E90, I would expect the M3 CSL E92 to be come close to 150.000 € here in EU. That is alot more compared to the M3 CLS E46 that costed 85.000 € when a base M3 E46 was at 60.000 €.


Oh yes, would love a 1 Series M Coupé V8 Edition, that would be something else.
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      08-01-2011, 02:36 PM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
The M3 matches the R8 V8. Watch as it pulls back lost ground. That's a 6spd. I don't think the DCT would of lost any ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
You really can't compare the two together. The R8 is a midengined super car and the M3 is a front engined grocery getter. It's just impressive for the M3 to keep up with the R8 in a straight line nonetheless. On the track, it's a different story.
Honestly, straight line speed is the least impressive fact for any car. It is just a function of power/weight and then power/drag (100+mph)... In the case of M3 and R8, they have very similar power.. So what do you expect to happen anyways?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40 View Post
Maybe it's time I get a dedicated fun/track car and a true DD. The more the M3 turns into the jack of all trades the less I like it. I want it to specialize in performance and handing. Don't care about 4 seats or two, luxury, etc.
Join the club, get a Mini Cooper S

A new Mini Cooper S ~30k with nice options. Lotus Exige S can be had for 35-40k used..
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      08-02-2011, 06:21 PM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
You really can't compare the two together. The R8 is a midengined super car and the M3 is a front engined grocery getter. It's just impressive for the M3 to keep up with the R8 in a straight line nonetheless. On the track, it's a different story.
Come on that is downright inciting. Neither is the R8 a super car nor the M3 a grocery getter. You have pulled each to the absolute extreme possible with more inaccuracy in describing the M3.

Furthermore they are not that far apart on the track either. On a huge range of tracks the R8 outpaces the M3 by about 1-2 seconds a minute. Have a look at the compare function on fastestlaps.com (I chose the 4.2 l Audi). That is basically down to what could be made up with track rubber. It is certainly well within the bounds of being a drivers race as well. Put a slightly more talented driver in the M3 and slightly less so in the R8 and the M3 will win at the track every time.
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      08-02-2011, 07:38 PM   #349
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Come on that is downright inciting. Neither is the R8 a super car nor the M3 a grocery getter. You have pulled each to the absolute extreme possible with more inaccuracy in describing the M3.

Furthermore they are not that far apart on the track either. On a huge range of tracks the R8 outpaces the M3 by about 1-2 seconds a minute. Have a look at the compare function on fastestlaps.com (I chose the 4.2 l Audi). That is basically down to what could be made up with track rubber. It is certainly well within the bounds of being a drivers race as well. Put a slightly more talented driver in the M3 and slightly less so in the R8 and the M3 will win at the track every time.
The R8 isn't a supercar? What? That's a first. The M3 is a grocery getter and the R8 is in fact a supercar. Let me guess, you think it's as sports car? While I LOVE the M3, it's just another BMW on the road. It has no presence on the road anymore. The M3 is a quick GT. A heavy, bloated, quick GT that goes to the store and back. God knows it can't do the track properly thanks to improper brakes, and poor ventilation. The M3 is the jack of all trades, but the master of none. It's still my dream car. Can't wait.
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      08-02-2011, 08:00 PM   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
The R8 isn't a supercar? What? That's a first. The M3 is a grocery getter and the R8 is in fact a supercar. Let me guess, you think it's as sports car? While I LOVE the M3, it's just another BMW on the road. It has no presence on the road anymore. The M3 is a quick GT. A heavy, bloated, quick GT that goes to the store and back. God knows it can't do the track properly thanks to improper brakes, and poor ventilation. The M3 is the jack of all trades, but the master of none. It's still my dream car. Can't wait.
To call the M3 a "grocery getter" is just silly. It is NOT the pure sports car that some other might be be calling it a grocery getter shows either that you are just trying to stir up crap or just don't get what the car is.

Although you believe it is a "fact", the R8, especially the V8, is NOT a super car. It is Porsche 911S level performance. How does that level of performance make it a super car? Do you consider a 911S a super car? Sure it is more of a pure sports car but a super car it isn't. The V10 is approaching the status of super car. A Z06 and the GTR would kick the crap out of an R8 and neither would really be considered a super car. The R8 is an amazing sports car but you seem to have it on some kind of pedastal where it doesn't belong.

To say the M3 has no presence on the road is also ridiculous... will it get the same attention as a Ferrari or Lambo? Of course not but it is NOT just another BMW. I have owned BMWs that were not M3s and they were anonymous... the M3 gets a TON of attention. It has a lot of presence and is well respected by anyone who follows and cares about performance cars.

Lastly, to say the M3 can't do the track properly is a load of crap. It is just as capable as a Cayman or base 911 on the track. Would you say those cars can't "do the track"? When I'm at HPDEs, instructors actually ask to take my M3 out. Two of the instructors own M3s and could have picked most any car.

I do NOT have any delusions of grandeur relative to the M3. I know what it is and what it isn't. It is NOT a pure sports car. As I said earlier, it is NOT an R8 on the track. BUT it is NOT a grocery getter either and it is damn close to an R8 on the track. I have actually spent time in the R8 driving it and, although it is a more capable track car, it is better to some extent due to the AWD that allows you to power through corners and less because of power or balance. Either you have ideas of other cars that are NOT realistic or you don't really understand/appreciate the M3. Again, I am NOT an M3 fanboy or believe the M3 is more than it is but I do know that it is a VERY capable car that is competitive with cars much more expensive and on par with many more "pure" sports cars. Sure it is a jack of all trades and a master of none but what you are overlooking is that on the things where it is not a "master" it is still very, very close to cars that are. If you need a dedicated track car, there are better choices, absolutely. If you need a car that is competitive with almost every car at the track but it is also a car that you can drive daily and, yes, pick up a few groceries then the M3 is a great choice... MUCH better than an R8

Last edited by gthal; 08-02-2011 at 08:28 PM.
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      08-03-2011, 12:41 AM   #351
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I agree with Hot|Ice, the R8 is absolutely a supercar. A supercar is defined by what then for those who don't think it is?

The R8 has an Exotic mid-engine chassis,an exotic high revving V8 engine, and a dry sump oil lubrication system. That sure sounds like a supercar to me. If your only reason against it being a supercar is it's power, then what about the 360 Modena among others?

The engine in the R8 is deserving of sitting in a supercar, just like the S65 V8 in the M3 is. The difference between being a sporty GT and a supercar lines in the package as a whole.
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      08-03-2011, 01:01 AM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
To call the M3 a "grocery getter" is just silly. It is NOT the pure sports car that some other might be be calling it a grocery getter shows either that you are just trying to stir up crap or just don't get what the car is.

Although you believe it is a "fact", the R8, especially the V8, is NOT a super car. It is Porsche 911S level performance. How does that level of performance make it a super car? Do you consider a 911S a super car? Sure it is more of a pure sports car but a super car it isn't. The V10 is approaching the status of super car. A Z06 and the GTR would kick the crap out of an R8 and neither would really be considered a super car. The R8 is an amazing sports car but you seem to have it on some kind of pedastal where it doesn't belong.

To say the M3 has no presence on the road is also ridiculous... will it get the same attention as a Ferrari or Lambo? Of course not but it is NOT just another BMW. I have owned BMWs that were not M3s and they were anonymous... the M3 gets a TON of attention. It has a lot of presence and is well respected by anyone who follows and cares about performance cars.

Lastly, to say the M3 can't do the track properly is a load of crap. It is just as capable as a Cayman or base 911 on the track. Would you say those cars can't "do the track"? When I'm at HPDEs, instructors actually ask to take my M3 out. Two of the instructors own M3s and could have picked most any car.

I do NOT have any delusions of grandeur relative to the M3. I know what it is and what it isn't. It is NOT a pure sports car. As I said earlier, it is NOT an R8 on the track. BUT it is NOT a grocery getter either and it is damn close to an R8 on the track. I have actually spent time in the R8 driving it and, although it is a more capable track car, it is better to some extent due to the AWD that allows you to power through corners and less because of power or balance. Either you have ideas of other cars that are NOT realistic or you don't really understand/appreciate the M3. Again, I am NOT an M3 fanboy or believe the M3 is more than it is but I do know that it is a VERY capable car that is competitive with cars much more expensive and on par with many more "pure" sports cars. Sure it is a jack of all trades and a master of none but what you are overlooking is that on the things where it is not a "master" it is still very, very close to cars that are. If you need a dedicated track car, there are better choices, absolutely. If you need a car that is competitive with almost every car at the track but it is also a car that you can drive daily and, yes, pick up a few groceries then the M3 is a great choice... MUCH better than an R8
1. Entitled to your opinion my friend. Around these parts, an M3 is a dime a dozen. Nobody really looks at them around here. Or Florida...or California...They're everywhere....You don't have some kind of masterpiece. The M3 has been milked. When it passes by, everybody thinks it's 328i with quad exhausts. It doesn't have any presence on the road. Only a REAL auto enthusiast will be able to see the air ducts and the mirrors and tell the difference. The average Joe really won't know what it is. BMW in general is now becoming Ford and Chevy of of the Luxury car brands. YOU have the M3 in the wrong place. It IS just another BMW. You can thank BMW's new mentality of lets milk the M badge for all it's worth. That's why everyone and their mother now has one.

2.Notice that I praised the M3 for being able to keep up with the R8 4.2 a page back. The GT-R puts up supercar numbers so that makes it as supercar in my book.

The rest of what I wanted to say was said below.

3. TL;DR.

4. I'm sure the F3x will be an amazing car, no doubt. My only concern is that BMW will keep cutting corners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HBspeed View Post
I agree with Hot|Ice, the R8 is absolutely a supercar. A supercar is defined by what then for those who don't think it is?

The R8 has an Exotic mid-engine chassis,an exotic high revving V8 engine, and a dry sump oil lubrication system. That sure sounds like a supercar to me. If your only reason against it being a supercar is it's power, then what about the 360 Modena among others?

The engine in the R8 is deserving of sitting in a supercar, just like the S65 V8 in the M3 is. The difference between being a sporty GT and a supercar lines in the package as a whole.
You understand me.
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