BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
GT Haus
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-08-2007, 11:48 AM   #1
coaster
Private First Class
 
coaster's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 123
iTrader: (0)

New ISF 400 HP, 350 ft-lbs, 0-60 in 4.9s

Just saw the live introduction of the new ISF. Dissapointing numbers ...

Performance-wise this car is competing with the chipped 335i.

The real competition to the new M3 appears to be the new Lexus LF-A which they also showed (500 HP) but no release plans yet.

Oh well ... let's hope the new M3 is not equally disappointing.
coaster is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-08-2007, 04:18 PM   #2
carnuts3
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2008 535i
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Connecticut

Posts: 408
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
Just saw the live introduction of the new ISF. Disappointing numbers ...

Performance-wise this car is competing with the chipped 335i.

The real competition to the new M3 appears to be the new Lexus LF-A which they also showed (500 HP) but no release plans yet.

Oh well ... let's hope the new M3 is not equally disappointing.
Disappointing? Maybe in substance because it really doesn't say much about the car except that its 0-60 performance is less than 4.9 secs. This could mean 4.8 or 4.2.... if 4.2, well that won't be disappointing. Having said that, BMW better watch out because 415-420 hp may not be enough with the competition upping the ante all over the place.
carnuts3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-08-2007, 05:11 PM   #3
coaster
Private First Class
 
coaster's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 123
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by carnuts3 View Post
Disappointing? Maybe in substance because it really doesn't say much about the car except that its 0-60 performance is less than 4.9 secs. This could mean 4.8 or 4.2.... if 4.2, well that won't be disappointing. Having said that, BMW better watch out because 415-420 hp may not be enough with the competition upping the ante all over the place.
Well, disappointing in that they barely reached the magic round number of 400 HP out of a 5 liter V8 engine when pre-release rumors had them at 425, 440 and even 500 HP. I tuned in to their broadcast expecting to hear mid 400's in power with 4.5s at worse in 0-60 and naturally I was dissapointed.

The 0-60 time of 4.9s better be stated very conservatively because the factory standard 335i sedan has tested at 4.8s already. Until C&D saves at least 0.4s off the Lexus stated time I am afraid the 335i is the shit for price-performance.

I will wait for the test-drive reviews but it looks like this car ain't gonna cut it for me. It's either the new M3 or the chipped 335i with yet-to-be-released performance package.

Please M3 don't dissappoint!
coaster is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-08-2007, 07:42 PM   #4
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,068
iTrader: (1)

Cant count on press release specs at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
Well, disappointing in that they barely reached the magic round number of 400 HP out of a 5 liter V8 engine when pre-release rumors had them at 425, 440 and even 500 HP. I tuned in to their broadcast expecting to hear mid 400's in power with 4.5s at worse in 0-60 and naturally I was dissapointed.

The 0-60 time of 4.9s better be stated very conservatively because the factory standard 335i sedan has tested at 4.8s already. Until C&D saves at least 0.4s off the Lexus stated time I am afraid the 335i is the shit for price-performance.

I will wait for the test-drive reviews but it looks like this car ain't gonna cut it for me. It's either the new M3 or the chipped 335i with yet-to-be-released performance package.

Please M3 don't dissappoint!
Even though you can't trust the "specs" given at such a launch there is some things to be learned. Lexus said OVER 400 hp and LESS than 4.9 sec for 0-60. If they are as conservative at BMW (say for instance with the 335i specifically) it should be a great performer (at least wrt raw numbers). Also the 350 tq figure will one up both 335i and E92 M3. Either way I am still a believer that they won't get the handling and feel anywhere close to an M3 in this first release. I'd never buy it with an auto though even with paddle shifters, way too much hp loss in the tranny. It has been stated many times but competition is certainly a good thing. Let the games begin.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-08-2007, 08:14 PM   #5
MisterBMW
Private First Class
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asia

Posts: 167
iTrader: (0)

Lexus always put a bigger displacement engine in their BMW-competiting models, much like AMG.
MisterBMW is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2007, 02:59 AM   #6
enigma
Captain
 
Drives: E92 M3 and Elise
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Land of the Microchip

Posts: 689
iTrader: (0)

Weight?

As usual, better brakes than the BMW. Otherwise I would rate it a disappointment.

Also beware Lexus tends to underrate HP just like BMW.
__________________
Manual gearboxes, the rotary dial of cars.
enigma is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2007, 03:01 AM   #7
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,068
iTrader: (1)

Don't agree at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
Just saw the live introduction of the new ISF. Dissapointing numbers ...

Performance-wise this car is competing with the chipped 335i.

The real competition to the new M3 appears to be the new Lexus LF-A which they also showed (500 HP) but no release plans yet.

Oh well ... let's hope the new M3 is not equally disappointing.
Well you might say LS-F may compete with a chipped 335i but comparing a modded car to a stock one is almost always a poor comparison. LS-F by its specs and by it direct market positioning by Lexus is competing against the new M3. LF-A with 2 doors only, V10, approx. 500 hp, approx. $100k is hardly competing with the E90 M3. I would say M6 would be the closest BMW competitor to LF-A.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2007, 12:43 PM   #8
coaster
Private First Class
 
coaster's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 123
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Well you might say LS-F may compete with a chipped 335i but comparing a modded car to a stock one is almost always a poor comparison. LS-F by its specs and by it direct market positioning by Lexus is competing against the new M3. LF-A with 2 doors only, V10, approx. 500 hp, approx. $100k is hardly competing with the E90 M3. I would say M6 would be the closest BMW competitor to LF-A.
Well, with the M3's weight advantage, more engine power from a smaller block (I expect 420 HP minimum), better transmission in SMGIII, and better suspension I don't expect the ISF to be anywhere near the new M3 in performance --including straight line.

What exactly did they do with the ISF? They took their IS-350, put in a larger motor, larger brakes, 8-speed automatic tranny, new exhaust. Then add some minor styling changes to the body and push it out the door as a competitor to the M3. Oh please ... I don't see any kind of new technology here that will bring about a new level of performance out of this car. I hope I am wrong and willing to wait for the testing reviews but I just don't see this car being revolutionary in any way. Now if they price it at $45K ... :rocks:

As for the chipped 335i it doesn't involve any hardware modding, just ~$1K worth of software so in my mind it's OK to compare it both with this car and the new M3.

Finally I expect the lexus LF-A to have kick-ass performance that should put it ahead of the new M3 (although not by much). But if you are into 2-door cars, it's gonna be hard to beat the price-performance proposition that will be offered in the upcoming Nissan GTR.

These are good times to be in the market for a fast car ...
coaster is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2007, 02:11 PM   #9
mmmpowr
New Member
 
Drives: '01 M3
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: MI

Posts: 11
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post

The real competition to the new M3 appears to be the new Lexus LF-A which they also showed (500 HP) but no release plans yet.
There is no comparison between the M3 and LF-A. Both cars will be in completely different price points. The LF-A is supposed to be their supercar and will more than likely be priced in the 100K range. It'll probably be compared to the M6 instead.
mmmpowr is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2007, 06:38 PM   #10
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,068
iTrader: (1)

Uhh... did you read the whole tread before posting

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmpowr View Post
There is no comparison between the M3 and LF-A. Both cars will be in completely different price points. The LF-A is supposed to be their supercar and will more than likely be priced in the 100K range. It'll probably be compared to the M6 instead.
You would save nearly duplicate posts if you did.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2007, 08:15 PM   #11
coaster
Private First Class
 
coaster's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 123
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
You would save nearly duplicate posts if you did.
Oh sure Lexus wants the LF-A to compete with the Porsches and the M6s and they sure can slap a high price on that car but can they really deliver the performance? They haven't shown us anything yet. Their first opportunity to impress in this segment came yesterday with the new IS-F and it sure doesn't look like they did. That's why I think the LF-A will not be as good and I bet the new M3 will not be that far from it in performance.

We'll see ...
coaster is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-09-2007, 09:37 PM   #12
sdiver68
Expert Road Racer
 
Drives: 07 335i e90, 09 335i e93
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 1,330
iTrader: (3)

Toyota makes a competitive F1 car and won the CHAMP series. Let's not kid ourselves and say Toyota can't make a fast road car.
sdiver68 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-10-2007, 02:20 AM   #13
Romo
Captain
 
Romo's Avatar
 
Drives: 1M, HP4 Competition
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Netherlands

Posts: 919
iTrader: (0)

Toyota has a lot of R&D done, they make the most reliable cars in the world, but making a fast car is some what different IMO, so with all due respect; there is a lot off work to do.........................................
Romo is offline   Netherlands
0
Reply With Quote
      01-10-2007, 10:25 AM   #14
carnuts3
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2008 535i
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Connecticut

Posts: 408
iTrader: (0)

Anyone see the white toyota concept hybrid sports car exhibited at the Detroit Auto Show? Could be coming in the next 2-3 years. Performance - 0-60 in around 4.0 secs. That's FAST! Great gas mileage too.
carnuts3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-10-2007, 08:58 PM   #15
coaster
Private First Class
 
coaster's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 123
iTrader: (0)

Looks like they are gonna price the ISF right around $50K. That's about the price of the old M3.

Not bad at all.
coaster is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-10-2007, 10:43 PM   #16
zuggerat89
Still waiting...
 
zuggerat89's Avatar
 
Drives: OGV
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Monmouth County, NJ

Posts: 887
iTrader: (0)

its so lumpy looking, and the quad stacked exhaust looks ridiculous, like some high school kid in art class had a novel idea. thank god for german engineering, i need a beer after that mess of metal
zuggerat89 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-11-2007, 05:29 PM   #17
Last E92 M3
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Virginia

Posts: 1,507
iTrader: (0)

So, how many people are surprised of thess ISF/LFA?
I can't say much about LFA but ISF looks like poop to be honest.
Interior is beautiful but exterior is just...yuk!

IMO, it will look a LOT better with coupe than 4 door.
That's what I am thinking since new IS first came out.

I hope you are kidding about those ridiculous exhausts. LOL!!!
Last E92 M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-11-2007, 06:46 PM   #18
zuggerat89
Still waiting...
 
zuggerat89's Avatar
 
Drives: OGV
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Monmouth County, NJ

Posts: 887
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Last E92 M3 View Post
So, how many people are surprised of thess ISF/LFA?
I can't say much about LFA but ISF looks like poop to be honest.
Interior is beautiful but exterior is just...yuk!

IMO, it will look a LOT better with coupe than 4 door.
That's what I am thinking since new IS first came out.

I hope you are kidding about those ridiculous exhausts. LOL!!!
if you were talkin about my post i meant ridiculous as in i could have taking a crap on a drafting board and would have came up with a better looking exhaust arrangement than that...
zuggerat89 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-12-2007, 12:33 AM   #19
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,068
iTrader: (1)

Some guesses

Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
Weight?
Well the IS350 is about 3520 (w/aluminum V6). The engine, brakes, wheels/tires, exhaust, etc. of the IS-F might add (very rough guesses) 75, 25, 25, 20, 50 lb. So my guess is about 3725, unless they made a concerted low weight effort. With a very concerted effort maybe they could keep it down to 3650?? My bet on the E90 M3 weight is 3500
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-12-2007, 01:16 AM   #20
mmmpowr
New Member
 
Drives: '01 M3
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: MI

Posts: 11
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Well the IS350 is about 3520 (w/aluminum V6). The engine, brakes, wheels/tires, exhaust, etc. of the IS-F might add (very rough guesses) 75, 25, 25, 20, 50 lb. So my guess is about 3725, unless they made a concerted low weight effort. With a very concerted effort maybe they could keep it down to 3650?? My bet on the E90 M3 weight is 3500
I agree, I think it'll weigh roughly 200 lbs more than the IS350. There was no mention at the press conference of any effort to make this thing lighter with body panels, suspension components or sound deadening. Basically, it sounds like they keeping the luxury while enhancing the performance. But this performance comes with a cost, they're adding a bunch of weight to the front of this thing like the V8 engine, larger transmission, oil coolers and bigger brake rotors. It would have been ideal for them to move the battery to the trunk for better weight distribution, but it's right there in the engine bay still. And the engine cover, they could have done away with that. Why wouldn't they want to show off the engine. So it's all these items that make it seem that it will not quite be the performance match for the upcoming M3.
mmmpowr is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-12-2007, 02:02 AM   #21
enigma
Captain
 
Drives: E92 M3 and Elise
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Land of the Microchip

Posts: 689
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romo View Post
Toyota has a lot of R&D done, they make the most reliable cars in the world, but making a fast car is some what different IMO, so with all due respect; there is a lot off work to do.........................................
You must never have driven a Supra. Nice and fast but the on/off nature of the turbos made them a trip to try to drive on a track.

I bet Swamp's ~3700 lbs guess is close. Its got a fundamentally better front suspension than the BMW. If they get the springs and shocks right it would put up a good fight. However, its unlikely they will give it enough tire to cope with the extra weight.

I would put it as a slight edge to BMW assuming Lexus sticks with their traditional soft spring/shock package. If they don't, it will be trouble.
__________________
Manual gearboxes, the rotary dial of cars.
enigma is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-12-2007, 04:07 PM   #22
Last E92 M3
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Virginia

Posts: 1,507
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zuggerat89 View Post
if you were talkin about my post i meant ridiculous as in i could have taking a crap on a drafting board and would have came up with a better looking exhaust arrangement than that...
nonono, i actually went to ISF forum and surprised how everyone said it's a great looking car without saying anything about weird looking exhaust.

Lexus got some work to do
Last E92 M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:40 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST