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      12-29-2006, 11:45 AM   #1
JEllis
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Some Concerns

I have a few concerns..

1. Is anyone else worried that the new E92 M3 is going to look a lot less sporty and instead even more like a luxury car?

2. I think we are all going to love the new engine and power but is anyone else worried that that the new M3 is going to have the same complicated sport systems the M6 and M5 have.

-Allow me to elaborate. The M6 and M5 are both really powerful and fast but lets say you pull up to a light or maybe just get onto an on-ramp and want to let loose a bit. Well, you have to go through a slew of programs in the computer to get the shift response you want (assuming E92 will come with SMG standard) and then you have to hit the M button to get the desired HP output you want. Yeah, it probably only takes 30sec to run through everything once you know what your doing but I want my power there all the time. I want the deciding factor of how much "sport" I want to be how far I am pressing the gas pedal down.

Well, if the M3 comes with a an optional 6spd then that solves part of the problem. I just dont like how a lot of cars are getting over teched. I just want a steering wheel, shift lever, and a gas pedal.

Jason
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      12-29-2006, 12:45 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
I have a few concerns..

1. Is anyone else worried that the new E92 M3 is going to look a lot less sporty and instead even more like a luxury car?

2. I think we are all going to love the new engine and power but is anyone else worried that that the new M3 is going to have the same complicated sport systems the M6 and M5 have.

-Allow me to elaborate. The M6 and M5 are both really powerful and fast but lets say you pull up to a light or maybe just get onto an on-ramp and want to let loose a bit. Well, you have to go through a slew of programs in the computer to get the shift response you want (assuming E92 will come with SMG standard) and then you have to hit the M button to get the desired HP output you want. Yeah, it probably only takes 30sec to run through everything once you know what your doing but I want my power there all the time. I want the deciding factor of how much "sport" I want to be how far I am pressing the gas pedal down.

Well, if the M3 comes with a an optional 6spd then that solves part of the problem. I just dont like how a lot of cars are getting over teched. I just want a steering wheel, shift lever, and a gas pedal.

Jason
Hello!

1. No need to worry...

2. That's not a big deal. Once you have done your preferences on the I-Drive you only have to push the M-Button on the steering wheel:


[source: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ring+wheel%22]

And yes, there should be a manual transmission (at least as a option)

Best regards, south
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      12-29-2006, 12:47 PM   #3
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Controls

I'd be willing to be there is a sport mode (faster throttle mapping), DSC but no full/partial hp button. I'd also bet that sport mode is off and DSC is on by default when you fire it up. All of this is based on current "standards". Since the M3 will be more sport and less luxury compared to M5/M6 and because of less power overall I would bet against the full/partial hp button. I sure would like complete memory of settings upon turning off the ignition but doubt it will be that way.
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      12-29-2006, 01:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I'd be willing to be there is a sport mode (faster throttle mapping), DSC but no full/partial hp button. I'd also bet that sport mode is off and DSC is on by default when you fire it up. All of this is based on current "standards". Since the M3 will be more sport and less luxury compared to M5/M6 and because of less power overall I would bet against the full/partial hp button. I sure would like complete memory of settings upon turning off the ignition but doubt it will be that way.
Did I mention the M Button...?
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      12-29-2006, 02:46 PM   #5
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I have many of the same concerns (plus a few nagging other issues) but mostly about the power/tran. issues. I just got the Feb 2007 Car and Drive and they did a comparo. with the M5, Audi S6 and the M.B. E63 AMG. And for the first time since I can remember a car mag really ragged on BMW. Their test M5 had the 6 speed manual transmission not the SMG and they report that with the manual trans you can NOT fully turn off DSC! So for the guy who buys the M5 with the manual trans wanting all the glorious M power, he can't really get it because the electronics manages the throttle and the brakes so that things don't get out of control. THAT SUCKS! 0-60 lap times went from 4.2 WITH SMG to 4.7 with the manual. And quarter mile times went from 12.5 118 to 13.0 114! A half second and 4 MPH in the quarter mile because of DSC in an M car?! THAT REALLY SUCKS!! What is BMW thinking? Skid pad and lane changes were equally effected. Basicly BMW brought a knife to a gun fight and still managed to shot themselfs in the foot! All this plus the continued hatred of iDrive placed the M5 in LAST PLACE!

So back to the M3, I've said it here before and I'll say it again, the M3 just looks too tame! I still think that BMW may have a few tricks up their sleeves on the M3. Or at least I hope so!!! We can ONLY hope that BMW realizes VERY Soon that people who buy M cars, and M3's in particular, buy them NOT for the electronics but for the go fast goodies that they've given us with past M cars! Now let's see what BMW has to say about all of this!
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      12-29-2006, 03:59 PM   #6
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^Great post!

As to the OP...I think that the car is going to lose a bit of sportiness that the E46 had and add a little bit of luxury (looks wise) But overall I dont think that it will be a step back in anything (except for big brother idiot driver systems, eg; DSC)

I have been doing some hard thinking lately and I realized that I would be paying $1.8-2K a month with insurance on this car. (Im 20, so im looking at $450-500 for this car insured) I think that what I am *Godwilling* going to do is pick up a used '06 E46 ZCP, and go with an AA S2 SC. And invest accordingly...if it all works out I could have A faster more trackable/afforable car. $45K for car $20K for mods. I really don't know anymore.

But these two videos of this guys car, make me think twice.


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      12-29-2006, 06:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milehigh E90 View Post
I have many of the same concerns (plus a few nagging other issues) but mostly about the power/tran. issues. I just got the Feb 2007 Car and Drive and they did a comparo. with the M5, Audi S6 and the M.B. E63 AMG. And for the first time since I can remember a car mag really ragged on BMW. Their test M5 had the 6 speed manual transmission not the SMG and they report that with the manual trans you can NOT fully turn off DSC! So for the guy who buys the M5 with the manual trans wanting all the glorious M power, he can't really get it because the electronics manages the throttle and the brakes so that things don't get out of control. THAT SUCKS! 0-60 lap times went from 4.2 WITH SMG to 4.7 with the manual. And quarter mile times went from 12.5 118 to 12.0 114! A half second and 4 MPH in the quarter mile because of DSC in an M car?! TAHT REALLY SUCKS!! What is BMW thinking? Skid pad and lane changes were equally effected. Basicly BMW brought a knife to a gun fight and still managed to shot themselfs in the foot! All this plus the continued hatred of iDrive placed the M5 in LAST PLACE!

So back to the M3, I've said it here before and I'll say it again, the M3 just looks too tame! I still think that BMW may have a few tricks up their sleeves on the M3. Or at least I hope so!!! We can ONLY hope that BMW realizes VERY Soon that people who buy M cars, and M3's in particular, buy them NOT for the electronics but for the go fast goodies that they've given us with past M cars! Now let's see what BMW has to say about all of this!
u just scared the living shit outta me iwth the 6 speed...
i dnt think ill get it if it has this DSC issue
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      12-29-2006, 07:12 PM   #8
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Unfortunately, it is highly likely that the new M3 will have more electronic gadgets than the last one. BMW would call this "progress."
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      12-29-2006, 07:44 PM   #9
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Well, I am glad that I am not the only one. If it turns out the M3 doesnt look as sporty as I hope and has too many tech items between me and 420Hp then a used RS4 is going to start looking pretty good. Or perhaps even a used 997. Both cars are in the same performance category with no nonsense approaches to getting the power to the ground.

Jason
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      12-29-2006, 11:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milehigh E90 View Post
I have many of the same concerns (plus a few nagging other issues) but mostly about the power/tran. issues. I just got the Feb 2007 Car and Drive and they did a comparo. with the M5, Audi S6 and the M.B. E63 AMG. And for the first time since I can remember a car mag really ragged on BMW. Their test M5 had the 6 speed manual transmission not the SMG and they report that with the manual trans you can NOT fully turn off DSC! So for the guy who buys the M5 with the manual trans wanting all the glorious M power, he can't really get it because the electronics manages the throttle and the brakes so that things don't get out of control. THAT SUCKS! 0-60 lap times went from 4.2 WITH SMG to 4.7 with the manual. And quarter mile times went from 12.5 118 to 13.0 114! A half second and 4 MPH in the quarter mile because of DSC in an M car?! THAT REALLY SUCKS!! What is BMW thinking? Skid pad and lane changes were equally effected. Basicly BMW brought a knife to a gun fight and still managed to shot themselfs in the foot! All this plus the continued hatred of iDrive placed the M5 in LAST PLACE!

So back to the M3, I've said it here before and I'll say it again, the M3 just looks too tame! I still think that BMW may have a few tricks up their sleeves on the M3. Or at least I hope so!!! We can ONLY hope that BMW realizes VERY Soon that people who buy M cars, and M3's in particular, buy them NOT for the electronics but for the go fast goodies that they've given us with past M cars! Now let's see what BMW has to say about all of this!
The inability to completely deactivate DSC is also present in the current M3 as well. I don't know if there is any appreciable difference in lap times, etc. between an e46 M3 6 sp vs SMG. From my understanding, iDrive will be an option on the upcoming M3.
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      12-29-2006, 11:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychobabble View Post
The inability to completely deactivate DSC is also present in the current M3 as well. I don't know if there is any appreciable difference in lap times, etc. between an e46 M3 6 sp vs SMG. From my understanding, iDrive will be an option on the upcoming M3.
That's incorrect. By pressing the DSC button once on the E46 M3, it disables the system completely. Only ABS remains active.

-Adam
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      12-29-2006, 11:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by replicat View Post
I think that what I am *Godwilling* going to do is pick up a used '06 E46 ZCP, and go with an AA S2 SC. And invest accordingly...if it all works out I could have A faster more trackable/afforable car.
I wouldn't want to go near a track with a SC E46 m3. Thats just a blowup waiting to happen.

Seriously, what you need to do is go to a track. Put up your best times there. Then give your keys to an instructor and see what times they can do in the same car. Then stop thinking about all the mods you need until you can match their time.

As to the M3 debate here. I wouldn't worry about DSC. Its never been an issue at the track. Its just one of those urban legands. The SMG II would sometimes clutch in when I didn't want it to in 1st gear turns.

At to the manual M5, its about what I expected. BMW assumes if you don't want SMG then you must not care that much about performance. Seriously, people who buy one are ordering a system that known to be inferior in terms of performance.
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      12-30-2006, 12:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
I wouldn't want to go near a track with a SC E46 m3. Thats just a blowup waiting to happen.

Seriously, what you need to do is go to a track. Put up your best times there. Then give your keys to an instructor and see what times they can do in the same car. Then stop thinking about all the mods you need until you can match their time.

As to the M3 debate here. I wouldn't worry about DSC. Its never been an issue at the track. Its just one of those urban legands. The SMG II would sometimes clutch in when I didn't want it to in 1st gear turns.

At to the manual M5, its about what I expected. BMW assumes if you don't want SMG then you must not care that much about performance. Seriously, people who buy one are ordering a system that known to be inferior in terms of performance.
+1

-Adam
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      12-30-2006, 11:25 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
I wouldn't want to go near a track with a SC E46 m3. Thats just a blowup waiting to happen.

Seriously, what you need to do is go to a track. Put up your best times there. Then give your keys to an instructor and see what times they can do in the same car. Then stop thinking about all the mods you need until you can match their time.

As to the M3 debate here. I wouldn't worry about DSC. Its never been an issue at the track. Its just one of those urban legands. The SMG II would sometimes clutch in when I didn't want it to in 1st gear turns.

At to the manual M5, its about what I expected. BMW assumes if you don't want SMG then you must not care that much about performance. Seriously, people who buy one are ordering a system that known to be inferior in terms of performance.
I agree....
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      12-30-2006, 02:12 PM   #15
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I like getting the latest technology and gadgets in a car AS LONG AS:

1- It is simple to use
2- It does not detract from the driving experience or make the car feel "artificial"
3- The electronics DO NOT BREAK

The fear I have with electronic systems controlling so many functions of the car is that they are prone to fail or "fault" more than mechanical parts would. This makes me leery of owning the car out of warranty, and makes resale poor for a car that is out of warranty, because no one else wants to own it out of warranty either. If the technology works well and is reliable, I am all for it. If it's a gadget that costs thousands to fix, then what we have is a version of a Ferrari on a smaller scale: a car no one wants to own when it has some miles on it. I think I'm going to really like the new M3 and would like to own it for many, many miles. Will that be possible without an extended warranty? It used to be....
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      12-30-2006, 04:04 PM   #16
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Clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Did I mention the M Button...?
I did not mean there would not be an "M Button", I just meant there would not be a hp reduce/increase function. I am certainly hoping as well that like the 335i iDrive is an option not standard.
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      12-30-2006, 06:33 PM   #17
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there better be an M button
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      01-05-2007, 12:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
there better be an M button
I hope not.. I want my 420hp on tap all the time...

Jason
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      01-10-2007, 10:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
Seriously, people who buy one are ordering a system that known to be inferior in terms of performance.
Car and Driver said that would've probably gotten better times with the manual M5 if they could've completely dissactivated the DSC.
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