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      12-30-2006, 01:42 AM   #1
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Huge Tranny issue with E92...

I learned a lot today about the M5 and M6 Tranny...

the STICK IS .5 SECONDS SLOWER THAN THE SMG WTFFF.....
people say u cannot turn off the DSC completely. and i saw an M5 stick today wentinside did not see the DSC button, only the EDC... I am pissed, now does anybody know if we will have this issue with our E92's?
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      12-30-2006, 02:55 AM   #2
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Doing what

Quote:
Originally Posted by m_bazeepaymon View Post
I learned a lot today about the M5 and M6 Tranny...

the STICK IS .5 SECONDS SLOWER THAN THE SMG WTFFF.....
people say u cannot turn off the DSC completely. and i saw an M5 stick today wentinside did not see the DSC button, only the EDC... I am pissed, now does anybody know if we will have this issue with our E92's?
.5 seconds slower doing what? If you're talking 0-60, then wouldn't it depend on the driver, especially in a manual tranny?
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      12-30-2006, 03:07 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skierman64 View Post
.5 seconds slower doing what? If you're talking 0-60, then wouldn't it depend on the driver, especially in a manual tranny?
you cannot completely tun off the DSC in the M5 and M6 with the Manual Tranny...

and this is by professional drivers
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      12-30-2006, 07:31 AM   #4
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Simply put. In the eyes of BMW a manual is an inferior choice to SMG. They only provide it for those that want a lever to play with while they drive. Those drivers are willing to accept slower shifts and fewer gears in order to be able to push around a pedal and lever. So its easy to understand why they might figure you don't care about dsc since you intentionally ordered a car that slower just to have an extra pedal and lever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m_bazeepaymon View Post
the STICK IS .5 SECONDS SLOWER THAN THE SMG WTFFF.....
people say u cannot turn off the DSC completely. and i saw an M5 stick today wentinside did not see the DSC button, only the EDC... I am pissed, now does anybody know if we will have this issue with our E92's?
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      12-30-2006, 03:05 PM   #5
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Manual have 1 gear less, of course its slower
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      12-30-2006, 03:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crea View Post
Manual have 1 gear less, of course its slower
really bad arguement...
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      12-30-2006, 03:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crea View Post
Manual have 1 gear less, of course its slower
Sorry, but that makes no sense whatsoever.
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      12-30-2006, 06:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crea View Post
Manual have 1 gear less, of course its slower
LMFAO HAHAHA
It's not the number of gears that make it faster than manual.
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      12-30-2006, 08:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last E92 M3 View Post
LMFAO HAHAHA
It's not the number of gears that make it faster than manual.
stop flaming him

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      12-30-2006, 10:05 PM   #10
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Deserved

Quote:
Originally Posted by m_bazeepaymon View Post
stop flaming him

Well I would not call that flaming (flaming = insult). However, with ridiculous statements like that on a M3 forum that fellow deserves a flame...
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      12-30-2006, 10:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Well I would not call that flaming (flaming = insult). However, with ridiculous statements like that on a M3 forum that fellow deserves a flame...
A flame not 4 flames
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      12-31-2006, 12:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crea View Post
Manual have 1 gear less, of course its slower
Nice.
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      12-31-2006, 05:54 AM   #13
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i guess none of u know gear ratio makes a huge difference in acceleration time

7spd SMG has a much closer gear ration compare to the 6MT, hence faster acceleration and the 7spd allows the V10 to be kept inside its powerband better then the 6MT

this is what i found on the M5 Forums:


Some thoughts about the comparative gearing of the E60 M5 SMG vs. 6-Speed manual:

-Both cars share the same 3.62 Final Drive.

-5th, 6th, and 7th gears in the 7-Speed SMG share virtually the same ratios as 4th, 5th, and 6th in the 6-Speed manual! (i.e. 4th gear in the 6-Speed manual is 2.5% shorter than 5th in the SMG, 5th in the 6-Speed manual is DEAD IDENTICAL to 6th in the SMG, and 6th in the 6-Speed manual is 4.5% shorter than 7th in the SMG).

-The "extra" gear in the 7-Speed SMG is found in the 2nd-3rd-4th area of the SMG gearbox (i.e. as compared to the six gears in the manual gearbox).

-1st gear in the SMG is 1.8% taller / longer than 1st gear in the 6-Speed manual.

-Reverse gear is 7.8% shorter on the SMG (i.e. 3.99 for SMG vs. 3.68 for 6-Speed


GUSTAV'S REPLY TO ME: But for "everyday racing" it seems like the manual


will see the taillights of the SMG, since most normal races do occur in the 2,3,4 gear area. Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav
Thanks to HadE55NowM5 I posted the gearign charts:




BMW E60/E63 SMG


1st 3.99 45 mph (73 km/h) @8250 rpm


2nd 2.65 68 mph (110 km/h) @8250 rpm


3rd 1.81 101 mph (164 km/h) @8250 rpm


4th 1.39 131 mph (213 km/h) @8250 rpm


5th 1.16 158 mph (256 km/h) @8250 rpm


6th 1.00 171 mph (277 km/h) @?


7th 0.83 ? ??



Final Drive: 3.62





BMW E60 6-Speed Manual


1st 4.06


2nd 2.40


3rd 1.58


4th 1.19


5th 1.00


6th 0.87


Final Drive: 3.62
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      12-31-2006, 12:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crea View Post
i guess none of u know gear ratio makes a huge difference in acceleration time

7spd SMG has a much closer gear ration compare to the 6MT, hence faster acceleration and the 7spd allows the V10 to be kept inside its powerband better then the 6MT

this is what i found on the M5 Forums:


Some thoughts about the comparative gearing of the E60 M5 SMG vs. 6-Speed manual:

-Both cars share the same 3.62 Final Drive.

-5th, 6th, and 7th gears in the 7-Speed SMG share virtually the same ratios as 4th, 5th, and 6th in the 6-Speed manual! (i.e. 4th gear in the 6-Speed manual is 2.5% shorter than 5th in the SMG, 5th in the 6-Speed manual is DEAD IDENTICAL to 6th in the SMG, and 6th in the 6-Speed manual is 4.5% shorter than 7th in the SMG).

-The "extra" gear in the 7-Speed SMG is found in the 2nd-3rd-4th area of the SMG gearbox (i.e. as compared to the six gears in the manual gearbox).

-1st gear in the SMG is 1.8% taller / longer than 1st gear in the 6-Speed manual.

-Reverse gear is 7.8% shorter on the SMG (i.e. 3.99 for SMG vs. 3.68 for 6-Speed


GUSTAV'S REPLY TO ME: But for "everyday racing" it seems like the manual


will see the taillights of the SMG, since most normal races do occur in the 2,3,4 gear area. Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav
Thanks to HadE55NowM5 I posted the gearign charts:




BMW E60/E63 SMG


1st 3.99 45 mph (73 km/h) @8250 rpm


2nd 2.65 68 mph (110 km/h) @8250 rpm


3rd 1.81 101 mph (164 km/h) @8250 rpm


4th 1.39 131 mph (213 km/h) @8250 rpm


5th 1.16 158 mph (256 km/h) @8250 rpm


6th 1.00 171 mph (277 km/h) @?


7th 0.83 ? ??



Final Drive: 3.62





BMW E60 6-Speed Manual


1st 4.06


2nd 2.40


3rd 1.58


4th 1.19


5th 1.00


6th 0.87


Final Drive: 3.62
Some of us know that gear ratios make a difference in acceleration!

You did post some informative data. It clearly points out one if the advantages of SMG. The close ratio gearing of the SEVEN speed SMG may pursuade me to go that route, IF, I'm confident that BMW has made the E90's shifting less jerking and/or sloppy. It's the close ratios and the choice of seven gears that does it for me, not the fact that SMG shifts faster in S7 mode.
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      12-31-2006, 01:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crea View Post
i guess none of u know gear ratio makes a huge difference in acceleration time

7spd SMG has a much closer gear ration compare to the 6MT, hence faster acceleration and the 7spd allows the V10 to be kept inside its powerband better then the 6MT

this is what i found on the M5 Forums:


Some thoughts about the comparative gearing of the E60 M5 SMG vs. 6-Speed manual:

-Both cars share the same 3.62 Final Drive.

-5th, 6th, and 7th gears in the 7-Speed SMG share virtually the same ratios as 4th, 5th, and 6th in the 6-Speed manual! (i.e. 4th gear in the 6-Speed manual is 2.5% shorter than 5th in the SMG, 5th in the 6-Speed manual is DEAD IDENTICAL to 6th in the SMG, and 6th in the 6-Speed manual is 4.5% shorter than 7th in the SMG).

-The "extra" gear in the 7-Speed SMG is found in the 2nd-3rd-4th area of the SMG gearbox (i.e. as compared to the six gears in the manual gearbox).

-1st gear in the SMG is 1.8% taller / longer than 1st gear in the 6-Speed manual.

-Reverse gear is 7.8% shorter on the SMG (i.e. 3.99 for SMG vs. 3.68 for 6-Speed


GUSTAV'S REPLY TO ME: But for "everyday racing" it seems like the manual


will see the taillights of the SMG, since most normal races do occur in the 2,3,4 gear area. Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav
Thanks to HadE55NowM5 I posted the gearign charts:




BMW E60/E63 SMG


1st 3.99 45 mph (73 km/h) @8250 rpm


2nd 2.65 68 mph (110 km/h) @8250 rpm


3rd 1.81 101 mph (164 km/h) @8250 rpm


4th 1.39 131 mph (213 km/h) @8250 rpm


5th 1.16 158 mph (256 km/h) @8250 rpm


6th 1.00 171 mph (277 km/h) @?


7th 0.83 ? ??



Final Drive: 3.62





BMW E60 6-Speed Manual


1st 4.06


2nd 2.40


3rd 1.58


4th 1.19


5th 1.00


6th 0.87


Final Drive: 3.62
If I remember correctly, I didn't see anything about gear ratio.
I am sorry!
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      12-31-2006, 05:28 PM   #16
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The ratio's of the gears in the SMG car are not particularly close. The STi and Celca are good examples of close ratio gear boxes.

The performance advantage of SMG comes from the reduction in time spent at zero (or negative) acceleration. Thats the time at which the car stops acelerating in the lower gear because the system has started to clutch in to the time its accelerating again in the next gear with the clutch fully engaged.

Every shift the SMG car spends less time coasting than the manual car will. Thats its advantage in a straight line.

The fact it allows the driver to focus more on driving is a separate and important issue.
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      12-31-2006, 05:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last E92 M3 View Post
If I remember correctly, I didn't see anything about gear ratio.
I am sorry!
?
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      12-31-2006, 08:27 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
?
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      01-01-2007, 09:16 PM   #19
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Overall: The SMG is for those who like the speed and use it on a regular basis and want to get every millisecond knocked off their time.
The clutch is for those who want to be fully in control of their m3's gear changing. Also more old fashion, there are actually people like myself who enjoy making the shifts themselves, and know its not "computer assisted". I would rather loose a race with a clutch, than win one without, because when I win in my 6-speed, I know it was me who did all the work.
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      01-01-2007, 09:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW4CHAZ View Post
I would rather win a loose a race with a clutch than win one without a clutch, because when I win I know I was the one who did the work!
Then why not take up bycicle racing and stop using this engine to do all the work of carying you down the racetrack

The car does all the work. All you are doing is giving it commands about what to do. All SMG does is change the interface used to give it those commands.
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      01-01-2007, 11:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
Then why not take up bycicle racing and stop using this engine to do all the work of carying you down the racetrack

The car does all the work. All you are doing is giving it commands about what to do. All SMG does is change the interface used to give it those commands.
The satisfaction of driving is not just about how fast you can go, but the achievement of attaning those speeds (both in corners and in a straight line). Those who defend SMG as the best choice have never performed a perfectly executed heel-toe downshift (and probably don't even know what that is).

One additional point in favor of the manual is the fact you can launch the car however you want (high RPM burnout, low RPM smooth takeoff, etc). The SMG chooses for you, and this takes away a good degree of the control (and fun!) of driving.

No one can argue that SMG is not faster around a track, since you can concentrate on braking, cornering, etc., but as you lap 1 second faster you are having less fun than the guy rowing his own gears.

It's a pity BMW may have dumbed down the M5's manual 6-speed.
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      01-02-2007, 01:04 AM   #22
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No so

Quote:
Originally Posted by e36jakeo View Post
Those who defend SMG as the best choice have never performed a perfectly executed heel-toe downshift (and probably don't even know what that is).

One additional point in favor of the manual is the fact you can launch the car however you want (high RPM burnout, low RPM smooth takeoff, etc). The SMG chooses for you, and this takes away a good degree of the control (and fun!) of driving.

No one can argue that SMG is not faster around a track, since you can concentrate on braking, cornering, etc., but as you lap 1 second faster you are having less fun than the guy rowing his own gears.
Get real. That is complete crap. Those who defend SMG are from at least 2 camps. One being the lazy racer type (lots of benefit without a great deal of skill required) as well as the serious and seriously skilled recreational racer with all the skill and experience and many years of perfect heel and toe down shifting. SMG offers great benefit for both. Of course we all know all top racers such as F1 use and prefer SMG type boxes.

SMG also offers the ability to launch a car with varying degrees of intensity. You are in control not the SMG. Honestly you sound like you have not driven SMG much.

I don't argue that MT driving and tracking/racing ar not more raw and that the mechanics of the shifting require certain skills. It is just with SMG you can focus more on other important subtleties (that are fun to ponder require skill as well) such as exact shift points, braking, turning, fine throttle control etc.
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