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      01-10-2007, 03:57 PM   #1
JEllis
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Lets be honest

Okay I see a lot of "nay saying" going on throughout the BMW community when it comes to the E92 M3. So lets be honest for a second about some things.

Performance:
Without even seeing the numbers yet you can bet that regardless of everything else, this thing is going to out perform all previous M3's. BMW has never let us down when it comes to its M3 performance. The E36 (Euro or even US version) was faster and performed better than the E30 it replaced. The E46 M3, although heavy, still out performs most E36's. Especially the US spec version. Keep in mind that the outgoing M3 is a beast and anything better is going to be awesome. I have no doubt that the E92 will be fast fast fast. Has BMW ever let us down when it comes to performance? The simple answer is no! So lets move on from this banter about how it will peform..its going to be sick

Handling:
Okay this is a good topic! For a base comparison lets look at the 335i. Several magazines have already reported track/road course times of the 335i to be on par with that of the outgoing M3 they tested. That is just awesome for a car that has an open diff and run flat tires. Now we know the current M3 is going to have an awesome locking diff, improved suspension, better brakes, and bigger stickier tires. I dont know about you but this says to me that the new M3 will probably get around a track/road course a little faster than the outgoing version. And the outgoing version was awesome! So moving on....

Looks:
Well, looks are always subjective but I have yet to see an M car I have not liked. Some of you dont like the way the 335i looks and thus you expect to hate the way the new M looks. I guess its possible you could be dissapointed, but I doubt it. The M5 is gorgeous, the Z4M and M coupe are gorgeous, the M6 is probably the only "okay looking" one of the bunch but its still very pretty (especially next to an Audi). Honestly, how many M cars in BMW history would you say are ugly? Do you honestly believe that this is the one time BMW is going to make an Ugly M3? I highly doubt it. Anyway, this is probably the one subject where everyone needs to slide off of the edge of their seat and sit back and relax. Wait for BMW to clean up their Mules and get the nasty black tape off. I personally dont think we have seen anything but dirty, bent, taped up, dented, and abused BMW mules that represent maybe 15% of the cars true beauty.....


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      01-10-2007, 04:04 PM   #2
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      01-10-2007, 05:01 PM   #3
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Great post. What a way to rally the troops!

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      01-10-2007, 05:05 PM   #4
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^^^ +1. only complaint i have is: it's taking too damn long for M3 to hit the showrooms!!! i want mine now.
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      01-10-2007, 05:09 PM   #5
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      01-10-2007, 05:12 PM   #6
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Oh jeesh ...

You could be a little less optimistic and say that BMW has done so well for so long that it's time for them to slip up. Why not, everybody else is, at least in the looks department.

The bangled E92 is certainly not awe-inspiring and it's very possible that the new M3 could look like the E92 with fatter tires, side vents, and quad tips.

I am far more concerned with them coming in with 401 HP, 3800 lbs, and a 0-60 of 4.8s. Just enough to beat the Lexus entry.
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      01-10-2007, 06:00 PM   #7
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Very well put!

This happens with EVERY new enthusiast car. As an owner of a B7 S4 and a frequent poster on AudiWorld and Audizine, the B6er’s bashed the B7 SOOO much before it’s release, it was embarrassing. I can now say that half of those guys like the B7 styling and the other half have warmed up to it. I can guarantee you it’ll be the same for the E92.

Of all the E92 bashers I can also promise you that all of them have a little envy in them as well. For starters the car is going to have sick numbers, and secondly their E46’s are now going to be an obsolete style. I’m not bashing the E46, I used to own one, but you got to admit that the E46 style is looking a little dated.
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      01-10-2007, 06:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpencerM3 View Post
but you got to admit that the E46 style is looking a little dated.
(1) E46 was the best looking 3-series ever. But to each his own.

(2) the factory E92 is not an ugly car. But the more I look at it, the more I yawn

(3) The main reason to buy BMW is all-around performance, so they better not screw the new M3.

Let me say that unlike many guys here who expect miracles from the new M3 I don't. They got 270 RWHP from the 3.2 liter engine. How much do you think they'll get out of the 4 liter? How about (4/3.2) x 270 = 338 RWHP. So let's not get our expectations too high, they can't perform miracles ya know.

I think they will barely pass the 400 BHP number. I will be thrilled if I am wrong.
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      01-10-2007, 06:54 PM   #9
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BMW M-Engines are some of the best engines in the world, so i don´t really think they have any problems to squeze out 420ish bhp out of an 4 litre engine really. but i guess we have to wait and see
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      01-10-2007, 08:36 PM   #10
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My turn!

I see 335i's daily here in L.A. and the car is simply amazing in person, and menacing at night. The E92 M3 is going to be all that and more.

Next, I think that the pre-face lifted E46 is the greatest looking BMW ever, and the E92 cannot top that...But what it can do is provide a solution to all of us that don't like the immasculine* lady-like "futuristic" garbage we are seeing coming out.

And finally the E92 will outperform the E46 in everyway other than looks (until we get settled in with it) My predicted figures are 0-60mph 4.5, 3525lbs, 'Ring time under 8mins, and 435HP which will be underrated by BMW to 415...which I hope for 365rwhp....

optimistic...yes. unrealalistic...no.

-Pete
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      01-10-2007, 09:29 PM   #11
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I concur wholeheartedly with Jellis, on the first post on this thread. Seems like there are a bunch of people with a ton of negativity on here. Let's wait and see the finished product before passing judgement.
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      01-10-2007, 10:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
(1) E46 was the best looking 3-series ever. But to each his own.
Agree, but it is a dated looking car. Like I said, I was an owner of an E46 and IMO it is one of the best looking BMW's of all time, however that look is now out dated. Whether for good or bad.
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      01-11-2007, 12:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpencerM3 View Post
Agree, but it is a dated looking car. Like I said, I was an owner of an E46 and IMO it is one of the best looking BMW's of all time, however that look is now out dated. Whether for good or bad.
No way E30
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      01-11-2007, 08:01 AM   #14
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Your all wrong

Shit,except about the e30!That was the best lookin motor ever,especially the M3 Sport Evo 111 in Black!!!!
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      01-11-2007, 08:56 AM   #15
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Loving the positive energy here in the land of peace and love (incidentally where many a car commercial is also filmed - i.e. the Marin Headlands). Clearly, we are all extremely excited about this car. And Car Magazine did have an excellent point in that article (which I just bought while in Dublin Ireland over new years, and also has an interesting/rare Bangle interview) about this being a car BMW cannot afford to screw up - the M3 is an enthusiast automobile that leads an aspirational segment for the 3-series (BMW's #1 seller by far) and this new design will be around for the next 5-7 years.

I think the negative sentiment has been tied to the fact that we're all sort of 'holding our breath' to see what the final result looks like. I am not sure about others on this forum, but I for one have been anticipating (googling spy shots, articles, etc.) for about two years now - and the car is almost here! So with that pent up excitement naturally comes a bit of apprehension when we're less than thrilled with the latest photochop or what have you. The performance is absolutely going to be there - I recently drove an '04 545i (325hp v8) and the thing is an absolute beast. Shave off a few hundred pounds, add 100hp, M tune the thing and what the...(!!!).

So for me, it is coming down to the pure lines and looks of the car - an area that BMW enthusiasts have reason to be apprehensive about these days (anyone seen the new X3?). I will have this thing for at least the next three years, and the only other real option that I have is buying a used Porsche 997 for about 65K - an absolutely gorgeous car (with almost zero trunk *******. I think the new M3 will be hotter (i.e. fresher/newer), faster, cheaper, and hold more of my stuff. Never been a real Audi fan - BMW's simply 'feel' better made and more exciting to me. Hopefully, the debate will be put to rest soon, and BMW will make us all true believers. I have little doubt.

So Geneva huh? Really? Jussi where are you bro? Anyone else with credible thoughts on the topic?
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      01-11-2007, 09:22 AM   #16
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There's only one problem: it's taking too long for M3 to launch. I want it now, not 2008.
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      01-11-2007, 12:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
Oh jeesh ...

You could be a little less optimistic and say that BMW has done so well for so long that it's time for them to slip up. Why not, everybody else is, at least in the looks department.

The bangled E92 is certainly not awe-inspiring and it's very possible that the new M3 could look like the E92 with fatter tires, side vents, and quad tips.

I am far more concerned with them coming in with 401 HP, 3800 lbs, and a 0-60 of 4.8s. Just enough to beat the Lexus entry.
Say it's not so. Unfortunately, I have the same concerns. I am not a Bangle fan, althoguh the 3 series is better done than the others. Personally, I don't like the look of the M5 or M6.

I too am very concerned that BMW may drop the ball on HP and introduce a heavy car. If it's not at least 420 claimed bhp, less than 3500 lbs and 0-60 mph in 4.5 sec. or less, they will lose a lot of sales, imo. I certainly won't buy one.

I am hopeful that this does not happen and they do create more than a 335 with bigger tires, vents and quad pipes.
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      01-11-2007, 12:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by replicat View Post
My turn!

I see 335i's daily here in L.A. and the car is simply amazing in person, and menacing at night. The E92 M3 is going to be all that and more.

Next, I think that the pre-face lifted E46 is the greatest looking BMW ever, and the E92 cannot top that...But what it can do is provide a solution to all of us that don't like the immasculine* lady-like "futuristic" garbage we are seeing coming out.

And finally the E92 will outperform the E46 in everyway other than looks (until we get settled in with it) My predicted figures are 0-60mph 4.5, 3525lbs, 'Ring time under 8mins, and 435HP which will be underrated by BMW to 415...which I hope for 365rwhp....

optimistic...yes. unrealalistic...no.

-Pete
It seems that many manufacturers are underrating their engines. So I would compare apples to apples. If 415 bhp is underrated with BMW it's comparable to 415 bhp being underrated elsewhere. In other words, I don't think 415 bhp (claimed) is enough.
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      01-11-2007, 01:54 PM   #19
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My 2 cents

Good discussion. Well-balanced thread.

I had some issues with the looks early on but I think with most the natural tendency is to simply "poo-poo" at the beginning and relish the past. Now, esp. with the recent gray mule photos, I love the look of the car we have seen thus far. I think the large, deep "holes" on the front bumper look super aggressive, both a continuation of the E46 M3 design, as well as nice similarities to the 996 Porsche. As has been said here many times the M3 needs/must have its own face. It can't look like a 335i with an M5 front bumper cover. 98% of the strong nay sayers will change their minds after two important events; the first real pics and the first real test numbers (not under-rated BMW specs). I strongly suspect at least 425 bhp claimed (my official predictions and some good discussion on this is here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13252 , just to top the RS4. Since the M5, which is also likely under-rated, probably puts out about 530 bhp just lopping off 2 cylinders with NO OTHER improvements to hp/l (unlikely since that engine is about 3+ yrs old, counting development) yields 424 bhp. A 15% drive train loss yields 360 rwhp. Also in the thread above I argue why the car will almost for sure be as fast or faster than the M5, 0-60, maybe 0-80 (unlikely after that). The M5, despite its weight is FAST, low 4s 0-60!

BMW literally has an unmatched heritage with the M3 (RS4 is the only car to ever win a magazine comparo yet have never unseated the E46 M3 with respect to the important "fun factor") and despite comments above, a past track record is one of the BEST reasons to be optimistic (rather than thinking it is a good time for BMW to slip up ). I'm glad there are so many here to share my excitement with and BS endlessly . Still praying to see the beast in Geneva.... Cheers.
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      01-11-2007, 02:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Still praying to see the beast in Geneva.... Cheers.
That's quite sure! The M3 Concept had its photoshoot already in Iceland and Dubai (according to another forum). Maybe some leaks will show up even before...

Best regards, south
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      01-11-2007, 05:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
(1) E46 was the best looking 3-series ever. But to each his own.

(2) the factory E92 is not an ugly car. But the more I look at it, the more I yawn

(3) The main reason to buy BMW is all-around performance, so they better not screw the new M3.

Let me say that unlike many guys here who expect miracles from the new M3 I don't. They got 270 RWHP from the 3.2 liter engine. How much do you think they'll get out of the 4 liter? How about (4/3.2) x 270 = 338 RWHP. So let's not get our expectations too high, they can't perform miracles ya know.

I think they will barely pass the 400 BHP number. I will be thrilled if I am wrong.
As I see more, I like E92 more than E46.
Though if I get to go back couple months when I could order E46 M3, I'd get one without doubt because it still makes me drool whenever I see moded M3.

Yesterday I was reading a magazine from bookstore waiting for someone and I noticed that they put IS-F, new M3, GTR, and new vette aka blue devil on same page to compare one to another.
My point is that whenever all of them gets released to market in US, I hope that new M3 doesn't get the lowest rating out of all of these 4 cars.

I doubt that this is going to happen because when E90 came out and tested with 7/8 cars, it had the highest rating.

Don't get a wrong idea though, I am not judging cars based on how magazines rate these cars. I use them as a reference when I purchase it.

I have a faith in BMW so...
DON'T LET ME DOWN! :rocks:
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      01-11-2007, 11:33 PM   #22
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Thumbs up GREAT

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
That's quite sure! The M3 Concept had its photoshoot already in Iceland and Dubai (according to another forum). Maybe some leaks will show up even before...

Best regards, south
Now this sounds like a good/juicy rumor. Which forum/thread did you read this in? If it is in German can you provide some real translation (google translation, or others are way to crappy)? Thanks in advance.

Edit: Heck I would even make a post here on this topic if I uncovered it.
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