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      12-18-2006, 12:02 AM   #1
SledgeHammer
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Why are people all GAGA about the E92?

Seriously, why are people going all gaga over the new E92 M3, photoshoping it, posting the same damn images time and time again?

1) Its VERY OBVIOUS that the body is going to take an E92 coupe body, flare the fenders, and stick on an M6'ish front end, and add the typical M3 styling cues.

2) I was ready to pull the trigger on ordering an E46 M3 6 months ago, but instead got laid off ... the E46 M3 looks MUCH nicer and is certainly more rich-ly appointed. So much so, that i'm looking for a young used E46 M3 rather then a new E92... why? heres why:

*EXTERIOR ISSUES*

a) the side lines are a bit too harsh... I realize that is the current trend, but I lost my lunch when the Toyota Celica did it years ago... harsh lines that are horrible...

b) the hood / kidney grill layout... WTF?? that is supposed to be BMWs trademark, and they mangled the kidneys... on the sedan, the broke it in 2 parts (the top chrome line is split) and the parts don't even line up... the chrome part on the hood is straight, so its now more of a flattened kidney... the coupe changed it a LITTLE by cutting out around the kidneys rather then splitting them... I'm not sure which one is uglier... the sedan "split" is definitely ugly while the coupe cutout is maybe a little bit odd... the E46 roll over style was PERFECT...

*INTERIOR ISSUES*

the interior of my 2002 $30,000 E46 325i looks better then the $100,000 2007M6... heres why:

a) quality of the leather seems to have gone down
b) quality of the dash leather seems to have gone down
c) removal of the center console bump out now makes the dash look BARE where as the E46 seemed a lot busier... ok, some people want bare... like the people who buy hondas... I'm looking to pay $50k+ for an M3... I want busy, I want buttons and lights... like the E46...
d) center console in the back now makes it impossible to squeeze a 3rd person in the back
e) STACKED GUAGES!!!! YUCK... my E46 325i has 4 guages with 1 stacked... they now went to 2 guages with both stacked, and removal of one guage... they also made the guages retarded looking by aligning all the needles... yeah, my E46 has one stacked guage, but the needles aren't sweeping the same chord as they do in the E92... Yuck, and yuck again... going from 4 guages to 2 stacked ones, again cheapens the interior... remember, this is a $50,000 car, I want bells and whistles, not a toyota like interior...
f) the center console on the E46, the stuff that went in there (CD, airconditioning, nav, etc) actually FIT... in the E92s, its like a rackmount setup where the stuff is too small for the cut out and they use filler plastic around it... RETARDED...

** ONE LAST COMPLAINT **

everybody I have EVER shown E92 pics to (from BMWs site, etc), the FIRST thing they all say = "why does the back wheel look tiny compared to the front wheel? don't know what I'm talking about?

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3/335icoupe

I DARE you to tell me the back wheel doesn't look weirdly small in both pics.

And this is all from a guy who thought the E46 style was (and still is) the most beautiful design ever to hit the road of any make, model or brand (save for a few exotics that cost more then my house).

Thats enough venting for now
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      12-18-2006, 12:25 AM   #2
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Why...cause people like different things...why? Cause the world would be boring if they weren't any changes..Why? Cause change means improvement...Why? The same reason people like red and others like blue.

Get your E46 M3 and move out of the road...don't get me wrong, I respect your decision, but coming in here and talk bad about other peoples taste is not showing a lot of respect..but then again is a free world.

No matter what you say..I think the E92 will go much futher than the E46, It's a hole different level that goes beyond the design..Are F1 cars the most beautiful thing out there? This is not a model contest...

Enjoy your E46...as much I will enjoy my E92 M3

Know that's enough venting...
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      12-18-2006, 12:47 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROAD EAGLE View Post
Why...cause people like different things...why? Cause the world would be boring if they weren't any changes..Why? Cause change means improvement...Why? The same reason people like red and others like blue.

Get your E46 M3 and move out of the road...don't get me wrong, I respect your decision, but coming in here and talk bad about other peoples taste is not showing a lot of respect..but then again is a free world.

No matter what you say..I think the E92 will go much futher than the E46, It's a hole different level that goes beyond the design..Are F1 cars the most beautiful thing out there? This is not a model contest...

Enjoy your E46...as much I will enjoy my E92 M3

Know that's enough venting...
Amen
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      12-18-2006, 02:22 AM   #4
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Not really into the whole new style much either. The interior and body just doesn't do it for me.

I just like how it has 400+ HP, but soon enough my ZCP will too and I prefer the look of my car than the E92's
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      12-18-2006, 02:39 AM   #5
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I'm not intending to insult anyone (except maybe chris bangle )...

Totally, the hp gains are great! although on the 335i they accomplished that with a turbo... twin turbos as a "band aid fix" for turbo lag. I'd rather have a normally aspirated engine with equal (or even close) hp vs. a twin turbo any day of the week . Don't get me wrong, some of the technology advances are cool. I *DO* like the concept of a start button as it gives the car a more futuristic look and its a conversation piece.
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      12-18-2006, 02:46 AM   #6
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when I drove the 335i, compared to my car...it drove and handled like a gooey M3...fun in a straight line and that's about all it did for me
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      12-18-2006, 02:48 AM   #7
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Thumbs down You must be looking for an argument?

Well, I think ROAD EAGLE summed up a contrary opinion to yours quite well in very general terms. Even though I kind of think your attitude does not deserve a response I am a bit bored waiting for more official news so I guess I will reply, point by point.

This forum in particular is quite good about not reposting old information. Heck I have even been guilty of posting something old once or twice myself. Folks politely correct you and then it moves on. The reason this forum is THE place to go is because it has the most information and the most up to date information. If it does not suit you go elsewhere to rant about the holy E46.

1. What body style do you expect the M3 to have, something that is NOT based on the current 3 series? The M3 has always been this way and always will. It is distinguinshed not only by a major change in looks but also by all the major subsystems in a vehicle that contribute to performance. If you are not aware of the breadth and depth of differences that transform a 3 series into a M3 that is only your own fault.

2. If you think an E46 M3 is more “rich-ly” appointed than an M6, you must be high. Have you sat in one? I am actually a huge E46 fan but come on, who are you kidding?

a. “Harsh lines”: Man you have got it completely backwards if you had to compare E90 vs E46 (M or not) harsh would go on E46 and smooth and flowing on E90. Again a matter of personal preference as to which one you prefer but not much of an argument about the basic terms to apply to each.

b. Grill: This is a constant but evolving design feature of BMW. Again, to each their own, but I enjoy how each series and generation gets a small tweak to a very hallmark design feature. The grill is constantly changing, in many ways, but it is always perfectly BMW.

Interior: If you actually want busy with lots of buttons and lights, “bells and whistles” as you say, just because you paid $XXX for a car you have a problem . It was Le Corbusier who said, “It seems justified to affirm: the more cultivated a person becomes, the more decoration disappears.”

I guess last but not least if you have not understood the issue of 3D perspective in the world or in pictures of the real world then you’ll just have to go on thinking that BWM uses smaller rear wheels than fronts.
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      12-18-2006, 02:57 AM   #8
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2nd post

Nice 2nd post on an E90 M3 enthusiast forum by the way...
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      12-18-2006, 03:24 AM   #9
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I wasn't talking about the technology underneath AT ALL. I know there is more to an M3 then styling. I'm not stupid enough to pay twice the money for a car just because it has M3 sill plates .

I also know the M3 has always been based on the 3 series. I was talking about the overall styling which is not only common to the 3 series, but to the entire "redesigned" line.

You are the one with the problem if you are cool with a toyota interior in a $50,000 car. Bells and whistles is *EXACTLY* what I expect. If you bought a $1,000,000 house, you wouldn't expect it to be head and shoulders above a $500,000 house finish quality wise? You be cool with vinyl floors and white ceramic subway tile in your $1,000,000 house? I'll of course assume its a house and not a Formula One house to cover your next argument...

As for your "3d perspective" argument... check the second smaller picture, guy, "3d perspective" doesn't apply to straight on profile shots. I never said it HAS smaller wheels in the back, I said it LOOKS like it does... and other people have said the same.

Sorry, I thought this was a discussion forum. You'd think you were on the design team or something.
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      12-18-2006, 11:35 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SledgeHammer View Post
I wasn't talking about the technology underneath AT ALL. I know there is more to an M3 then styling. I'm not stupid enough to pay twice the money for a car just because it has M3 sill plates .

I also know the M3 has always been based on the 3 series. I was talking about the overall styling which is not only common to the 3 series, but to the entire "redesigned" line.

You are the one with the problem if you are cool with a toyota interior in a $50,000 car. Bells and whistles is *EXACTLY* what I expect. If you bought a $1,000,000 house, you wouldn't expect it to be head and shoulders above a $500,000 house finish quality wise? You be cool with vinyl floors and white ceramic subway tile in your $1,000,000 house? I'll of course assume its a house and not a Formula One house to cover your next argument...

As for your "3d perspective" argument... check the second smaller picture, guy, "3d perspective" doesn't apply to straight on profile shots. I never said it HAS smaller wheels in the back, I said it LOOKS like it does... and other people have said the same.

Sorry, I thought this was a discussion forum. You'd think you were on the design team or something.

First of all, I respect your decision to go for an E46. I love mine, that's for sure, and even though I put my deposit for the new one down over a year ago; I had doubts when I saw first spy shots.
I was sad when I saw the E90 dash, because I don't like it very much. I wish the layout was still towards the driver, and overall it would not look like a luxurious 5, but rather have that "sporty" feel for an E46. Having said that, I have test driven the E90 330I and the E92 335i, and the longer I was in these cars, the more I changed my mind.

With Navigation System it looks A LOT better than without, but also looks more futuristic than the E46. Details are of higher quality, and I started enjoying the way it is. The dashes went from 4 to 2; so what?! It's a change, which you will get used to, and so many companies went that way with their cars. I am not talking about Toyota, but upper class brands.

My adivce to you is also go to BMW and look at the real car, not pictures and you will see your argument for a smaller looking rear wheel is completely irrelevant. I also disagree that the new E92 looks harsh, I like the front a lot more than the E90 and it certainly looks smooth and very nice. Without a doubt, the E46 M3 is great, but it won't be close to the E92....

Believe what you want, but for me I can imagine the first time I see an E92 M3 in my E46; I just wanna trade.

I find it also sad that you do not seem to enjoy change in design. The lines on the E92 are an improvement, the E46 is starting to look outdated. Look at the way the front bumper is put on...

Of course do what you want, just dont be disappointed when you see the E92 M3 the first time --- I would be
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      12-18-2006, 04:04 PM   #11
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Hehe... as a matter of fact, I sat in a E92 335i coupe YESTERDAY at the dealership along with my dad. Then I took him over to a used E46 M3 (without saying a word) and we sat in that one. I also drove him to the dealership in my E46 325i. He commented on how the old style looked better. Although, he did say he was OK with the side creases and the new hood / grill configuration on both the E92 sedan and coupe. His main comment was that the interior on the new cars looked very plain / bare, while the E46's dash / center console almost make it look like an airplane cockpit. One other comment he had was that he wasnít crazy about the hood / front fascia on the E46 M3 because it was too radical / aggressive for him (heís in his 60s), but said he could see how a younger crowd would like the look.

That being said... I am *NOT* against change... as a matter of fact, I thought EVERY SINGLE GENERATION of BMWs looked superior to their predecessors in so many ways... UP TIL THE CURRENT generation.

That being said #2Ö I *WILL* totally agree with your statement that the body on the E46 is starting to look a bit dated, but I *LOVE* the front end of the E46 M3. From the spyshots Iíve seen, the E92 M3s front end is OK, but it looks more factory vs. the body kit look of the E46.

I dunno, maybe you prefer the factory look better .

Now again, Iím not talking about any underlying technology, handling, horsepower, etc. My complaints were strictly styling elements. Iíve never been a fan of the harsh side creases.

I donít know what Iíll end up getting, because I havenít been able to find an E46 M3 thatís configed how I want and not totally trashed. So maybe when I see the real E92 M3 Iíll change my mind, but looking at the 5, 6 and 7 series, its clear where the E92 M3 is headedÖ at least in my mind.
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      12-18-2006, 05:35 PM   #12
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You do have some good points regarding the shape and the interior. Howerver, we are all going to ignore the reality and try to defend the new e92......

The e92 Sedan looks pretty bad with its funny headlights and rear lights. I recently went to the dealership to purchase a 335i coupe and saw the e46 M3 in the show room and ended up getting the M3..... It just looked expensive while the 335i coupe looked plain.....

Turbo is not the way..... Howerver, the new M3 with a V8 will be nice. Hopefully, they will pump up the shape a little and make it look special.
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      12-18-2006, 08:04 PM   #13
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E46 M3 vs 335i vs E90 M3

95% of the talk comparing E46 M3 to 335i is irrelevant.

Enough will be changed both exterior, interior and engineering ("under the hood") wise that the comparisons are almost totally irrelevant. Sure I like to chat and BS about the 335i as well, as it is the new M base chassis. It took me a long time to get used to the looks of the 335i but on the road and in person I think it is gorgeous. The tail lights at night are spectacular! The M changes will make it even better. I like the interior in the 335i quite well as well. It is still very "BMW" but loaded with lots of comfort and convenience things. Keep in mind that this will all be quite a bit different in the new M as well. Just compare E46 non M to E46 M3 interior (or 5 series M to non M) - quite a lot of changes, not even the same seats. All that being said I don't like the way the 335i drives. I know it is fast but it does not feel fast and the clutch, steering and suspension are nowhere close to E46 M3.

For the naysayers: You do know that if you go BWM and non M, the first M3 you see in person, at a dealer or or on the road (probably in a magazine as well) you will be in full on regret mode.... I'm just warning you...

SledgeHammer:
-If I thought the 335i or new M3 will have a "Toyota" interior I would not be happy about that nor excited about the car. I don't. I like elegance, functionality and most importantly a driving/diver oriented interior. I think BMW has always delivered on this.
-Your "home" comments are not particularly relevant. You did not say the fit, finish and materials are not up to par in the 335. You said specifically you want "bells and whistles". To me (and I think to most) "bells and whistles" has a negative connotation, not a positive one. Sort of like gadgets with not much real purpose, just for the "wow" value. Maybe I am just misunderstanding your language only, not your intent?
-3D perspective: I do see what you mean in the second tiny photo. I only looked at the big one when I replied. I'm sure you have found side photos where this does not appear to be that case?
-Obviosuly I have nothing to do with the design team. Everyone here seems pretty open to discussion IMO. I guess the tone of your post just really sounded like you were looking for an argument and I guess there is a fine line between discussion and argument. As I always say to each their own on taste/aesthetics. Cheers.
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      12-18-2006, 09:26 PM   #14
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Nah, I wasnt looking for an argument, I was looking for a discussion . Sorry if my tone was harsh. Obviously some people like the new look and some don't.

Actually, I *did* say the interior materials & finish were not up to E46 quality IMHO. I ALSO said I want bells & whistles in a $50,000+ car. Do I want my M3to come with an electric can opener and a shoe buffer? Of course not. Do I want it to come with fancy displays that light up like a cockpit at night? Hell ya I do. Do I want it to be lights for the sake of lights? No. Personally, I think the E46 interior lights up with just the right amount of gadgets. I'm not looking for a James Bond car, but I want my $50,000 car to LOOK like it cost $50,000. Like I would want a $1,000,000 house to look like it cost a million and not $500k.

M's have never changed the OVERALL look of the car. They've just added some styling cues. In the E46, chrome rings around the guages, M badging everywhere, M emblazzended seats, etc. But aside from those touches, it still generally LOOKED like a stock 3. It wasn't RADICALLY different.

What are you driving a M3 for, if not for the wow factor? Ok, not all of it, but its definitely part of it.

No actually, ALL pics of it that I've seen look like that. All I've figured out why. Its that sharp side crease that gives it that illusion. I've gone back and revisited E46 M3 side pics, and they also have that illusion, but to a much lesser extent, almost non noticeable because the crease is a lot softer.

Now, I probably haven't said this... but I *DO* like the overall profile of the E92's... I'm just not crazy about the details I mentioned, like the side crease and the grill / hood arangement.

I really only have ONE GRIPE about the E46s (to show you I am not a total E46 ass kisser :rocks... I was never really that big on how the dash looks like its two parts... with the upper front part sort of looking like its sitting on a shelf. The "work around" was to get a black interior so its all one color and blends in.

While an all black interior and a nav in the E92 definitely does take some of the edge off and remove some bareness:

http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos....11_346x270.jpg

I hope you can see in that pic there is still a lot of "bare area" in the center console. The components have several inches of filler all around them.
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      12-18-2006, 09:53 PM   #15
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Why am I driving an M3?

Why am I driving an M3? One word. PERFORMANCE. On the road and on the track (road courses). All the rest is just profiling.
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      12-18-2006, 11:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SledgeHammer View Post
Hehe... as a matter of fact, I sat in a E92 335i coupe YESTERDAY at the dealership along with my dad. Then I took him over to a used E46 M3 (without saying a word) and we sat in that one. I also drove him to the dealership in my E46 325i. He commented on how the old style looked better. Although, he did say he was OK with the side creases and the new hood / grill configuration on both the E92 sedan and coupe. His main comment was that the interior on the new cars looked very plain / bare, while the E46's dash / center console almost make it look like an airplane cockpit. One other comment he had was that he wasnít crazy about the hood / front fascia on the E46 M3 because it was too radical / aggressive for him (heís in his 60s), but said he could see how a younger crowd would like the look.

That being said... I am *NOT* against change... as a matter of fact, I thought EVERY SINGLE GENERATION of BMWs looked superior to their predecessors in so many ways... UP TIL THE CURRENT generation.

That being said #2Ö I *WILL* totally agree with your statement that the body on the E46 is starting to look a bit dated, but I *LOVE* the front end of the E46 M3. From the spyshots Iíve seen, the E92 M3s front end is OK, but it looks more factory vs. the body kit look of the E46.

I dunno, maybe you prefer the factory look better .

Now again, Iím not talking about any underlying technology, handling, horsepower, etc. My complaints were strictly styling elements. Iíve never been a fan of the harsh side creases.

I donít know what Iíll end up getting, because I havenít been able to find an E46 M3 thatís configed how I want and not totally trashed. So maybe when I see the real E92 M3 Iíll change my mind, but looking at the 5, 6 and 7 series, its clear where the E92 M3 is headedÖ at least in my mind.
I pretty much disagree w/ you and your daddy's comments.
and yeah, my daddy doesn't think that E46 M3 looks better than E92 M3.
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      12-19-2006, 08:34 AM   #17
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The current design is aiming towards more elegance and luxury than the outgoing. Some like it and some don't. I prefer the current.
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      12-19-2006, 03:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last E92 M3 View Post
I pretty much disagree w/ you and your daddy's comments.
and yeah, my daddy doesn't think that E46 M3 looks better than E92 M3.
that's b/c you haven't seen the "new" M3...you have seen comoed up pics
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      12-19-2006, 07:00 PM   #19
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Well what you have stated are mostly personal opinions. Others might have their personal opinion why they like the e92 m3. I could think of 2 reasons right on top of my head, it's new, new vehicle generates more excitement. Second is it probably won't have the engine problem e46 m3 suffered from. Which is my main reason I did not go for the e46 m3. Otherwise it's a no brainer i can get an used e46 for mid 30k vs. 50k for an new one.

I do agree with you the interior has gone down hill. I was playing inside of a e92 328i coupe last week and the plastic bits felt just slightly better than plastic used in Nissans or Hondas.
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      12-21-2006, 08:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiGGm3 View Post
that's b/c you haven't seen the "new" M3...you have seen comoed up pics
personal opinion.
keep up w/ the M trend.
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      12-22-2006, 09:53 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SledgeHammer View Post
Seriously, why are people going all gaga over the new E92 M3, photoshoping it, posting the same damn images time and time again?

1) Its VERY OBVIOUS that the body is going to take an E92 coupe body, flare the fenders, and stick on an M6'ish front end, and add the typical M3 styling cues.

2) I was ready to pull the trigger on ordering an E46 M3 6 months ago, but instead got laid off ... the E46 M3 looks MUCH nicer and is certainly more rich-ly appointed. So much so, that i'm looking for a young used E46 M3 rather then a new E92... why? heres why:

*EXTERIOR ISSUES*

a) the side lines are a bit too harsh... I realize that is the current trend, but I lost my lunch when the Toyota Celica did it years ago... harsh lines that are horrible...

b) the hood / kidney grill layout... WTF?? that is supposed to be BMWs trademark, and they mangled the kidneys... on the sedan, the broke it in 2 parts (the top chrome line is split) and the parts don't even line up... the chrome part on the hood is straight, so its now more of a flattened kidney... the coupe changed it a LITTLE by cutting out around the kidneys rather then splitting them... I'm not sure which one is uglier... the sedan "split" is definitely ugly while the coupe cutout is maybe a little bit odd... the E46 roll over style was PERFECT...

*INTERIOR ISSUES*

the interior of my 2002 $30,000 E46 325i looks better then the $100,000 2007M6... heres why:

a) quality of the leather seems to have gone down
b) quality of the dash leather seems to have gone down
c) removal of the center console bump out now makes the dash look BARE where as the E46 seemed a lot busier... ok, some people want bare... like the people who buy hondas... I'm looking to pay $50k+ for an M3... I want busy, I want buttons and lights... like the E46...
d) center console in the back now makes it impossible to squeeze a 3rd person in the back
e) STACKED GUAGES!!!! YUCK... my E46 325i has 4 guages with 1 stacked... they now went to 2 guages with both stacked, and removal of one guage... they also made the guages retarded looking by aligning all the needles... yeah, my E46 has one stacked guage, but the needles aren't sweeping the same chord as they do in the E92... Yuck, and yuck again... going from 4 guages to 2 stacked ones, again cheapens the interior... remember, this is a $50,000 car, I want bells and whistles, not a toyota like interior...
f) the center console on the E46, the stuff that went in there (CD, airconditioning, nav, etc) actually FIT... in the E92s, its like a rackmount setup where the stuff is too small for the cut out and they use filler plastic around it... RETARDED...

** ONE LAST COMPLAINT **

everybody I have EVER shown E92 pics to (from BMWs site, etc), the FIRST thing they all say = "why does the back wheel look tiny compared to the front wheel? don't know what I'm talking about?

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3/335icoupe

I DARE you to tell me the back wheel doesn't look weirdly small in both pics.

And this is all from a guy who thought the E46 style was (and still is) the most beautiful design ever to hit the road of any make, model or brand (save for a few exotics that cost more then my house).

Thats enough venting for now
Amen. Amen.
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