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      10-10-2010, 08:31 PM   #23
devo
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Hey JMD, how have you been? How's that wicked Ackrapovic GT3!!!

While out blasting the back roads this afternoon, I was thinking about how comfortable these cars are while cruising. Even when attacking the apexes it amazes me how glued these cars are while retaining excellent road manners. I don't care what anyone says, a GT3 especially a .2 can easily be a dd and many including me would prefer it over the turbo.

My GT3 is more compliant over the rough stuff than my 2005 911S. The suspension is so dialed in now. Porsche learned lots from the GT2, which as we know has passed to the GT3.

There's no denying that a turbo will make passing everything like you're aboard the USS Enterprise and you asked Scottie for more power, but it's not like a GT3, again especially a .2, will leave you wishing for more power.

Last edited by devo; 10-10-2010 at 08:41 PM.
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      10-10-2010, 09:28 PM   #24
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That is very impressive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMD0977 View Post
Yes, kind of...

There was a local modded 997.1 TT 6speed with 516whp/536wtq SAE on a dynojet that I ran multiple times... My 997.2 GT3 (2950 lbs) was making 411 whp/300wtq SAE on the same dynojet at the time...

From 30mph to 170mph, I would be ahead by 1 car length...
From 50mph to 170mph, he would be ahead by 1 car length...

Gearing, weight (600+lbs car weight difference, and he also weight 250lbs), N/A Vs FI(Throttle response), redline difference, powerband, play big part...

He ran 11.5 at a drag strip without launching...

After that, he went catless and retuned (535-540whp), he would pull away from my on a straight at a rate of about 1 foot per second. Still, at PBIR (2.2 mile road course), he would disappear immediately from my rear view mirror within the first half of the first lap.

My point is, it would take serious upgrades ($15K+ on engine mods) to really destroy a (Exhaust/tune/high octane) 997.2 GT3...and as you now know, to get power from exhaust for the 997.2 GT3 can be done real cheap

This is with the 997.2 GT3... the 997.1 GT3 cannot compare... The 997.2 GT3 puts down 40whp more (stock for stock) than the 997.1 GT3, although the 997.2 GT3 supposedly only got 20 crank hp increase. I

I know the OP is talking about a 997.1 GT3, but I thought these real world results with the 997.2 GT3 should be noted.
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      10-10-2010, 11:14 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
Additionally, GT3's that dont really get driven sometimes develop RMS problems...
^^This is true.^^

Take a look at this website (RMS issue. Scroll down and read):
http://www.gt3rsregistry.com/2008GT3RS/vin/2196.htm

If you read on, Porsche Cars North America, Inc. replied to the RMS leak and said:

Please be advised that GT3 engines have a design which is unique from other 911's because of it's exposure to very high
RPM's. The rear main seal of these engines is held tight by a vacuum created inside the engine block. If the vehicle is not
used for prolonged periods of time this vacuum pressure may decrease allowing a small amount of oil to seep past the
seal. Due to this special design, oil seepage can occur in GT3 vehicles that are not driven on a regular basis.

Your warranty manual indicates that your responsibility for normal vehicle use is for your vehicle to be driven daily over
a distance of several miles. Your vehicle was designed with the assumption that it would be used within these guidelines.
If it is not, you may experience some oil seepage; however, this is not a defect in the vehicle but simply a result of lack of
use.


To summarize if you have if you own a GT3, it should be driven daily over
a distance of several miles. If not, the rear main seal will start to leak.

So after reading the link above, I am assuming that low mileage '08-'09 997.2 GT3's that are for sale have these problems.
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      10-10-2010, 11:27 PM   #26
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First off...

With the 997.1 GT3 they didn't come with the PCM (Porsche Commnunicatin Management) which is an option before you can even order the Nav.

Next, there is no non sunroof option at all. All 997s come with the sunroof and can't be ordered without it. This is to the displeasure of a lot of Porsche guys that want to track the car.

Even if the car came with nav, the nav that came with the 997.1 cars was horrible. I know I had a 997.1S and my Garmin was a better nav than what came in that car.

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      10-11-2010, 02:18 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e92_m3 View Post
^^This is true.^^

Take a look at this website (RMS issue. Scroll down and read):
http://www.gt3rsregistry.com/2008GT3RS/vin/2196.htm

If you read on, Porsche Cars North America, Inc. replied to the RMS leak and said:

Please be advised that GT3 engines have a design which is unique from other 911's because of it's exposure to very high
RPM's. The rear main seal of these engines is held tight by a vacuum created inside the engine block. If the vehicle is not
used for prolonged periods of time this vacuum pressure may decrease allowing a small amount of oil to seep past the
seal. Due to this special design, oil seepage can occur in GT3 vehicles that are not driven on a regular basis.

Your warranty manual indicates that your responsibility for normal vehicle use is for your vehicle to be driven daily over
a distance of several miles. Your vehicle was designed with the assumption that it would be used within these guidelines.
If it is not, you may experience some oil seepage; however, this is not a defect in the vehicle but simply a result of lack of
use.


To summarize if you have if you own a GT3, it should be driven daily over
a distance of several miles. If not, the rear main seal will start to leak.

So after reading the link above, I am assuming that low mileage '08-'09 997.2 GT3's that are for sale have these problems.
LOL

That was just Porsche's BS answer to their infamous problem with those cars. They essentially have no fix for it. Ask the guys on the Rennlist boards and you'll see. Most of them are choked about this issue.
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      10-11-2010, 03:27 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azorean View Post
LOL

That was just Porsche's BS answer to their infamous problem with those cars. They essentially have no fix for it. Ask the guys on the Rennlist boards and you'll see. Most of them are choked about this issue.
I also feel that is also BS from Porsche. If you search online and look at forums, Porsche really does not have any fix for it. They just replace the seals and usually the RMS leak happens again. However, Sharkwerks (www.sharkwerks.com) actually have a pemanent fix. They are a company here in the Bay Area (California) that specializes in Porsches.

Here's a link of them with their permanent fix (Go to the second page under the username "sharkster):
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/g...d-again-2.html <--- CLICK!
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      10-11-2010, 03:31 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azorean View Post
LOL

That was just Porsche's BS answer to their infamous problem with those cars. They essentially have no fix for it. Ask the guys on the Rennlist boards and you'll see. Most of them are choked about this issue.
Well... there is a fix. A 996 GT3 RMS will and does solve the problem; that is if you are of the camp that it is a problem. Porsche knows this and could easily correct the leak. It is easy to believe that Porsche is just BS-in, but there is also evidence that their claim has substance. Either way it is not something to dwell on when considering one of these magnificent machines.

Just because some on RL believe are annoyed with this issue does not lend any substance to their claim that it is a flaw. Porsche also claims that there are a few extra ponies to be had because of this RMS set up. Furthermore, they claim alternatives lessen the power output.

Before you get all defensive show me your mechanical engineering pedigree as well as ultra high performance engine building resume and I might buy into your theory. I'm not saying that you can't be right, but I won't buy into it because of bunch of Rennlisters, or whomevers, are disturbed that some oil may seep onto the garage floor. I frequent RL so I am aware of the issues.

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      10-11-2010, 03:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e92_m3 View Post
^^This is true.^^

Take a look at this website (RMS issue. Scroll down and read):
http://www.gt3rsregistry.com/2008GT3RS/vin/2196.htm

If you read on, Porsche Cars North America, Inc. replied to the RMS leak and said:

Please be advised that GT3 engines have a design which is unique from other 911's because of it's exposure to very high
RPM's. The rear main seal of these engines is held tight by a vacuum created inside the engine block. If the vehicle is not
used for prolonged periods of time this vacuum pressure may decrease allowing a small amount of oil to seep past the
seal. Due to this special design, oil seepage can occur in GT3 vehicles that are not driven on a regular basis.

Your warranty manual indicates that your responsibility for normal vehicle use is for your vehicle to be driven daily over
a distance of several miles. Your vehicle was designed with the assumption that it would be used within these guidelines.
If it is not, you may experience some oil seepage; however, this is not a defect in the vehicle but simply a result of lack of
use.


To summarize if you have if you own a GT3, it should be driven daily over
a distance of several miles. If not, the rear main seal will start to leak.

So after reading the link above, I am assuming that low mileage '08-'09 997.2 GT3's that are for sale have these problems.
FTR, the '08 GT3s are .1s. Porsche did not make a GT3 in 2009. The .2s came out in 2010. There are < 500 .2 2010s for the US and a handful more for 2011. I'd be surprised if 580 .2 GT3s are created for the US. That's it until the next generation GT3 due to be released sometime around 2012 as a MY2013.
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      10-11-2010, 04:06 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azorean View Post
LOL

That was just Porsche's BS answer to their infamous problem with those cars. They essentially have no fix for it. Ask the guys on the Rennlist boards and you'll see. Most of them are choked about this issue.
The RMS leak can stop with regular use.
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      10-11-2010, 04:12 PM   #32
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      10-11-2010, 04:33 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
FTR, the '08 GT3s are .1s. Porsche did not make a GT3 in 2009. The .2s came out in 2010. There are < 500 .2 2010s for the US and a handful more for 2011. I'd be surprised if 580 .2 GT3s are created for the US. That's it until the next generation GT3 due to be released sometime around 2012 as a MY2013.
I had a typo there. My mistake. Good catch there bro. I also thought there were '09 997.1 GT3's.


Btw, here's my previous post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by e92_m3 View Post
So after reading the link above, I am assuming that low mileage '08-'09 997.2 GT3's that are for sale have these problems.
I meant I am assuming that low mileage '08 997.1 GT3's that are for sale have these problems.
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      10-11-2010, 04:38 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
Well... there is a fix. A 996 GT3 RMS will and does solve the problem; that is if you are of the camp that it is a problem. Porsche knows this and could easily correct the leak. It is easy to believe that Porsche is just BS-in, but there is also evidence that their claim has substance. Either way it is not something to dwell on when considering one of these magnificent machines.

Just because some on RL believe are annoyed with this issue does not lend any substance to their claim that it is a flaw. Porsche also claims that there are a few extra ponies to be had because of this RMS set up. Furthermore, they claim alternatives lessen the power output.

Before you get all defensive show me your mechanical engineering pedigree as well as ultra high performance engine building resume and I might buy into your theory. I'm not saying that you can't be right, but I won't buy into it because of bunch of Rennlisters, or whomevers, are disturbed that some oil may seep onto the garage floor. I frequent RL so I am aware of the issues.
You may not be fazed by it but most would be after dropping that kind of coin on a car and seeing that it seeps oil. I don't need a degree of any kind to understand that Porsche has a design flaw here and did not intend to design it this way although I would agree it's minor to some people. But, to some it is unacceptable and understandably so. Oil seepage of any kind is not normal regardless of the type of car and quite frankly if Porsche could've fixed it they would. I am well aware of Porsche's attempt to fix this problem since 2007 on the 7GT3 but with no success yet to my knowledge. I have seen this personally with a friend's GT3RS and fellow Rennlisters (with substantial knowledge on this topic) who all have had no solution to the problem. FWIW my 6GT3 did not leak at all while I owned it. In fact, far fewer 6GT3 leaked compared to the 7.
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      10-11-2010, 04:51 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azorean View Post
I am well aware of Porsche's attempt to fix this problem since 2007 on the 7GT3 but with no success yet to my knowledge. I have seen this personally with a friend's GT3RS and fellow Rennlisters (with substantial knowledge on this topic) who all have had no solution to the problem
How about sharkwerks (www.sharkwerks.com) easy fix? Does it permanently fix the leak? I am really curious because of what a few buddies and of mine and what devo had said. Besides devo, a few friends of mine also said that Porsche had mentioned that doing a fix on the RMS leak decreases the power output. Would it be a good thing to sacrifice some loss of power if the sharkwerks fix solves the RMS leak??

Btw, here's a link of them with their permanent fix (Go to the second page under the username "sharkster):
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/g...d-again-2.html <--- CLICK!
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      10-11-2010, 09:20 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e92_m3 View Post
How about sharkwerks (www.sharkwerks.com) easy fix? Does it permanently fix the leak? I am really curious because of what a few buddies and of mine and what devo had said. Besides devo, a few friends of mine also said that Porsche had mentioned that doing a fix on the RMS leak decreases the power output. Would it be a good thing to sacrifice some loss of power if the sharkwerks fix solves the RMS leak??

Btw, here's a link of them with their permanent fix (Go to the second page under the username "sharkster):
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/g...d-again-2.html <--- CLICK!
Yes its a permanent fix. The just use a 996 seal to fix it or prevent it on the 997.1 GT3's...
No one single 997.2 GT3 has had RMS issues...
90% of the 997.1 GT3's that had that issue were no driven much. Those people that say that they drove the car and it still happened, don't know that only driving the car 1-2 times per week doesn't qualify as regularly driving the car....
10%-15% of the total 997.1 GT3, at the most, might have had RMS issues. And most were garage queens... Those little spots of oil don't hinder the cars performance or reliability in any way shape or form. It came with the territory, like the small cloud of smoke during cold starts, from time to time... its part of the design.
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      10-11-2010, 09:24 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
Hey JMD, how have you been? How's that wicked Ackrapovic GT3!!!
Hey Devo,

Everything is great... Thanks.
Sold the Akrapovic(great system, but didn't want to have $8k tided up in an exhaust), and currently testing something else; its louder but same/similar gains in most areas for 10% of the cost

You got anything planned?
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      10-11-2010, 10:01 PM   #38
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i had the JRZ setup on my E46 M3 and that was actually a great DD and much improved over stock in comfort and in handling and any other setup i tried in other friends E46 M3's and i got to test quite a few. the drop was like yours and .5" all around and i think that is the majic number on that car for a mix of comfort and handling etc.

i agree while the GT3 is amazing car i think as a DD it would get old quick



Quote:
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i haven't driven a gt3, but here is my take on this.

recently i upgraded my e46 m3 coilover to ground control 400f/500r spring rate which is suppose to ride really good on the street. My drop is 0.5" all around. ride is good and handling is on rail. mind you I dd my m3 80 miles daily.

sometimes I drive my mdx to work and i just realize, damn the mdx is so comfortable. it doesn't beat me up and I don't get tired as when I drive my m3.

My point is if you want a DD, the m3 is borderline harsh enough. I'm willing to bet the gt3 is much harsher than my setup. Plus the extremely low ground clearance of the gt3 will be a real pain in the ass. I do not think the gt3 is a good DD.

Ok for track and weekend street use, but definitely not DD. I'm young and this already bug me. I can't imagine an older guys would be able to put with this on a daily basic. your body will thank you down the road.
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      10-11-2010, 10:58 PM   #39
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how much more would a used 997.2 run you vs the 997.1?? it seems like it is worth it to get the .2 from the way you talk about it. impressive numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMD0977 View Post
Yes, kind of...

There was a local modded 997.1 TT 6speed with 516whp/536wtq SAE on a dynojet that I ran multiple times... My 997.2 GT3 (2950 lbs) was making 411 whp/300wtq SAE on the same dynojet at the time...

From 30mph to 170mph, I would be ahead by 1 car length...
From 50mph to 170mph, he would be ahead by 1 car length...

Gearing, weight (600+lbs car weight difference, and he also weight 250lbs), N/A Vs FI(Throttle response), redline difference, powerband, play big part...

He ran 11.5 at a drag strip without launching...

After that, he went catless and retuned (535-540whp), he would pull away from my on a straight at a rate of about 1 foot per second. Still, at PBIR (2.2 mile road course), he would disappear immediately from my rear view mirror within the first half of the first lap.

My point is, it would take serious upgrades ($15K+ on engine mods) to really destroy a (Exhaust/tune/high octane) 997.2 GT3...and as you now know, to get power from exhaust for the 997.2 GT3 can be done real cheap

This is with the 997.2 GT3... the 997.1 GT3 cannot compare... The 997.2 GT3 puts down 40whp more (stock for stock) than the 997.1 GT3, although the 997.2 GT3 supposedly only got 20 crank hp increase. I

I know the OP is talking about a 997.1 GT3, but I thought these real world results with the 997.2 GT3 should be noted.
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      10-11-2010, 11:28 PM   #40
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^about 80-90 for 997.1 GT3 about 120k for 997.2 GT3
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      10-11-2010, 11:29 PM   #41
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Quote:
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Most GT3 have RMS issues but otherwise a solid car although very inpractical which will wear quickly. Check out the Renlist boards.
No they do not.

They are found on Regular 911's, S, 4S.

Never on GT3, GT2, GT, or Turbos.

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      10-11-2010, 11:35 PM   #42
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No they do not.

They are found on Regular 911's, S, 4S.

Never on GT3, GT2, GT, or Turbos.

6speedonline
I think you got it mixed up...

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/g...my-gt3-rs.html

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...-rms-leak.html

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...-buyers-guide/

theres tons more
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      10-11-2010, 11:37 PM   #43
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wow didn't think it would be 30-40k difference. is it worth it to get the .2 version or only if you track the car?? is the .2 more comfortable on the roads??

i ask bc other then my M3 the GT3 is really the only other car that i really like and would want when i am ready to get rid of my M3 since BMW is no longer making NA engines. its either that or if i can bear AWD i would get an R8 maybe but i still really like the GT3 as a first choice. i wouldn't get the RS version bc i don't track my car

Quote:
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^about 80-90 for 997.1 GT3 about 120k for 997.2 GT3
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      10-11-2010, 11:45 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H Bomb View Post
wow didn't think it would be 30-40k difference. is it worth it to get the .2 version or only if you track the car?? is the .2 more comfortable on the roads??

i ask bc other then my M3 the GT3 is really the only other car that i really like and would want when i am ready to get rid of my M3 since BMW is no longer making NA engines. its either that or if i can bear AWD i would get an R8 maybe but i still really like the GT3 as a first choice. i wouldn't get the RS version bc i don't track my car
Sounds like me. I think you have to drive them for yourself. Its said the .2 is better as a daily, smoother on broken road. But its not a major difference in other areas to my knowledge. They say this one has better front end grip as well due to the transfer over of the 997 GT2 geometry. although ive never had a long drive in a 997.1 GT3. You can find higher milage (25-35k miles) for low 70's.

As for the last part of your post, I would have thought it was written by me!!!! Your my twin! LOL There is no other car i would want between the M3 and GT3. Kinda sucks..wish there was more options for people like us! and the r8 is more than the gt3 and not as good imo...but maybe make it RWD! take out the front diff.
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KW CS w/Rs3 - WSIR 1:32:8 / BW C13 1:59:2 / ACS 1:55:1
APR Wing/Rs3 - WSIR 1:30:9 / BW C13 1:57:7
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