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      08-03-2006, 08:26 AM   #1
Steved
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M3 Engine Power Specification

Someone posted these details on another forum, based on information provided by Ricardo Consultancy in their "New Engine News" publicity. My apologies if it has already been posted.

"Engines reported to be under development:
BMW 4.0L V8 Based on 5.0L V10, 3rd generation double VANOS, 307 kW, 420Nm, For M3.
Introduction Date: 2007"

On that basis:

307Kw equates to around 418bhp and 420Nm is around 308lb/ft.

Audi's RS4 engine by comparison develops 309kw (420bhp) and 430Nm (317lb/ft)
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      08-03-2006, 11:45 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved
Someone posted these details on another forum, based on information provided by Ricardo Consultancy in their "New Engine News" publicity. My apologies if it has already been posted.

"Engines reported to be under development:
BMW 4.0L V8 Based on 5.0L V10, 3rd generation double VANOS, 307 kW, 420Nm, For M3.
Introduction Date: 2007"

On that basis:

307Kw equates to around 418bhp and 420Nm is around 308lb/ft.

Audi's RS4 engine by comparison develops 309kw (420bhp) and 430Nm (317lb/ft)
However, Rumour has it that the M3 will be direct injected which will be a significant departure, in terms of cyliner head design, from the M5. BMW claims that they can extract approximately 10% extra power from same displacement using Direct Injection.

If you scale the output of the 5.0 liter V10 down to 4.0 liters, add 10%, you get 440 horse power. Knock off a bit of power for good measure and conservatism and I predict the new M3 will come in at 432 horsepower.

That is my prediction.
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      08-03-2006, 12:02 PM   #3
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I assume you are aware who Ricardo Consultancy are? If it is indeed a genuine statement made on one of their PR pages then it's likely to be factual. I would be surprised though if BMW publishes a power output less than Audi's 420PS, so expect a slight revision of the final numbers.

I truly doubt that BMW will deploy direct injection (DI) technologies in the E92 M3. As far as I am aware DI does not work as effectively in high-RPM applications and M GmbH are notorious for going their own way in terms of engine tech (i.e. to hell with BMW's corporate philosophy). Likewise Porsche have developed DI equipped engines but have chosen not to release them due to the poor quality gasoline available in the US markets. For BMW to launch the M3 with an engine that won't work in the US markets would be highly unlikely.

Ricardo will have been involved in helping BMW develop the new 4.0l V8 and they should know what it will or will not develop. Btw, Ricardo Engineering Consultancy worked on many of the engineering innovations on the Bugatti Veyron including the DSG gearbox IIRC.
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      11-29-2006, 02:58 AM   #4
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Where are you guys?

Hey guys, just read your comments here today 11/29/06. Great discussion, especially back in the Feb.time frame. Are you guys still frequenting the board? Looking forward to your insights as of today.
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      11-29-2006, 01:45 PM   #5
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The other thing to keep in mind is the official rating of an engine and the power the engine actually produces are two different things.

The consensus is the V10 is slightly underrated. BMW has a long tradition of doing this. The new 335 is another good example.
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      11-29-2006, 05:23 PM   #6
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The 335i is a great example, there was a spanking new one on automobilemag.com that put down 275.x RWHP! Thats should be about 330-340 at the crank!

Whatever the new M3 is rated at...(and it won't be what was posted above, that was already confirmed incorrect info, remember?) Hopefully its underated to something between 415-420HP, but actually at 430-440. We'll have to wait and see.
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      12-14-2006, 10:48 PM   #7
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mmmmm.... do u guys think that M3 will be as fast as RS4 or might be faster?
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      12-15-2006, 12:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cally_ive View Post
mmmmm.... do u guys think that M3 will be as fast as RS4 or might be faster?
In the snow. No. LOL. My gut says it'll be faster. If you look at the numbers, figuring the new M3 has ~420hp and is ~3600lbs then the numbers are in the M3's favor as well, but only time will tell.

-Adam
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      12-15-2006, 07:12 AM   #9
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420 hp would seem dead on to me; same for the torque (308+/-). I can't see BMW going higher than 425 hp. Regarding the RS4. The M3 will probably weigh about 300 lbs less and have one less parasitic differential to contend with.
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      12-15-2006, 03:02 PM   #10
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Vs. competition,etc.

I think almost exclusively for marketing purposes BMW needs to claim more hp than RS4. There is a hp war. It is the only car in mags to ever "dethrone" any M3. I certainly do not doubt that the M3 will be faster on the track (less weight, RWD, SMG, etc.) even if it has less official hp. 0-60 is going to be tough for the average (or even above average) driver with all that hp and RWD. RS4 may often beat the new M3 0-60 in real world cases due to 4WD. DGI: Keeping my fingers crossed but would not count on it.
replicat: How can any speculation thus far be refuted? THERE IS NOTHING OFFICIAL.
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      12-19-2006, 02:02 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by replicat View Post
The 335i is a great example, there was a spanking new one on automobilemag.com that put down 275.x RWHP! Thats should be about 330-340 at the crank!

Whatever the new M3 is rated at...(and it won't be what was posted above, that was already confirmed incorrect info, remember?) Hopefully its underated to something between 415-420HP, but actually at 430-440. We'll have to wait and see.
Very true. BMW has always outperformed its HP numbers. The E92 330i may have been the first that was actually rated correctly (based upon the 1/4 mile trap of about 97 MPH and a weight of 3400 +/-). But the 335i is WAY under-rated (it weights more than an E46 M3, has 33 HP less, yet matches its 1/4 mile time? I say 335i = 320 HP minimum).

The M5 is the same way. Some mags have seen a 118 MPH 1/4 trap speed in a car that has 500 HP but weighs over 4000 lbs. Yikes! Compare that to the Shelby Mustang with a 500 HP engine that runs 112-114 in the 1/4 mile and weighs 100 lbs less than the M5. I'd say the M5 is making 530 HP minimum.

Given the fact the M3's V8 will most likely be based on the M5's V10, and the technological advances in the new V8 over the V10 (DI very likely, since the RS4 has it) I'd say 450 real (or say 425 claimed) HP is likely.
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      12-19-2006, 02:18 AM   #12
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I would agree that 430-450 real is the likely range. No idea what HP figure BMW will advertise.

Trying to get that power down with the 265 rear tires (as seen in a few spy pics) should be, err, fun.
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      12-19-2006, 02:53 AM   #13
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265?

Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
I would agree that 430-450 real is the likely range. No idea what HP figure BMW will advertise.

Trying to get that power down with the 265 rear tires (as seen in a few spy pics) should be, err, fun.
My guess is for at least 275 tires on the new M but definitely wider than E46 M3. Heck you may be abel to get 305s on the rear with the right offsets (speculation...). You are right, too much hp for 265s - no way to take advantage of all the hp to get to potential max acceleration.
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      12-19-2006, 03:09 AM   #14
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The 235/265 number were from the spy shots floating around. I suspect 285/305 will fit without any real issues but I was trying to compare stock vs stock.

I ran 285/285 on my M3 with no issues and no need to modify the stock fenders.
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      12-19-2006, 05:23 PM   #15
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More OT on tires...

Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
The 235/265 number were from the spy shots floating around. I suspect 285/305 will fit without any real issues but I was trying to compare stock vs stock.

I ran 285/285 on my M3 with no issues and no need to modify the stock fenders.
I hope the new M3 will get 275s at least, wouldn't 305s be fantastic, doubt that will happen though? However, the E60 M5 does get its 500+ (maybe 530 like you and others said) hp down to the ground well with only 285s. It is really heavy though as well which helps traction.
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