BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > Regional Forums > Canada
 
EXXEL Distributions
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-26-2010, 06:55 PM   #1
ep99
Private First Class
Canada
9
Rep
161
Posts

Drives: 2016 X6M
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Driver Training - Fascination

Is it worth the $3350.00 price tag?

My two days on Circuit Mont-Tremblant track is an eye-opener.

If your M3 is just a daily commute for you...this is one way to get your feet wet in track racing...now i finally understand why some of you are taking your car to the track.

This course unlike advanced or perfection DRIVING courses...this is actually racing 101, which BMW will not said it outright.

Some of the track exercises are gear towards track racing.
High-speed ideal-line cornering...we were instructed what to do at the turning point, apex and exit point.

Other exercises included high-speed lane changes...doing a 120 km emergency lane change and it was raining hard on our day which was pretty hairy for my taste.

Figure 8 drifting...that was fun.

We were told the M3 is a well balanced machine (50/50 weight distribution).

So in track cornering...you should loaded up the front-end springs before leaving the turning point (braking is your friend and downshift is just there to assist) and you have to ease off the brake pedal gently...don't just take your foot off it and that will help you progressively turn or steer the car towards the apex.

That's a tough exercise for me and just trying to remember all the steps before every corners. I guess that's why they are trying to drill it into our muscle memory with a lot of cornering exercises.

And track lapping with follow the leader is pretty good.

We actually had a sunny day (first day) and then a rainy day (second day) on the track. This really give you a feel of what's it likes in bad weather condition on the track.
Oil slick showing up in surfaces around on corners if you are not following the racing line.
And as the instructors had pointed out...if you get on the wet grass...it will added about 1000 horsepower to your car...don't brake...ride it out if you can.

First day...we were doing laps in the south loop and they have introduced the north loop at the end of the day.
And second day, they have linked up the two loops and the track speed increased dramatically and every corners have a new characteristic which is fun.

We were also given a chance to try out a X6M on the track.
The pickup is just unbelievable and i am surprise that you can actually do track racing with it...i felt pretty safe in it on the track.

So it was a good experience for me and i definitely recommends it.

Last edited by ep99; 09-28-2010 at 07:06 PM.
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2010, 07:11 PM   #2
gthal
Major General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
1800
Rep
5,688
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

Sounds a lot like our local BMW driver training events. A huge amount of fun, technical learning and lots of time lapping the track and getting to know your car. About as much fun as you can have unless you are horizontal
__________________
2018 340i | Mineral Gray | Current DD | C8 mid-engine Corvette to come next year
2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT
2014 Corvette Stingray | Z51 | Torch Red | 7MT
2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3 | 1996 E36 M3 (track car)
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2010, 08:10 PM   #3
Gearhead999s
Major General
Gearhead999s's Avatar
557
Rep
7,803
Posts

Drives: RR Velar R=Dynamic M4 R1200GS
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

So I would assume that the $3350 included the car that you used on track or did you use your own car?
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2010, 03:33 PM   #4
ep99
Private First Class
Canada
9
Rep
161
Posts

Drives: 2016 X6M
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Using their cars (M3 coupe DCT)...rumor is that this might be the last year for M3...next year could be M5.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2010, 07:19 PM   #5
skierman64
Brigadier General
skierman64's Avatar
United_States
92
Rep
3,070
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 Space Gray M3 & E36M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Greater St Louis Metro area

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
1994 325is Race Car  [0.00]
2011 BMW Z4  [0.00]
1998 M3 Coupe  [0.00]
2008 M3 Coupe  [0.00]
Send a message via Yahoo to skierman64
Sounds like fun but ouch that's pricey. For about $500 you could do the same thing with the BMWCCA (BMWCC) or the Audi club. That would leave you $2800 leftover to buy tires and or brake pads if needed (most likely not for a 2 day school).

That would be at the same track for 2 days with the same caliber of instruction.
__________________
Invest Wisely...The best mod for your money?? BMWCCA high performance driver's school. The mod that lasts a lifetime and improves the performance of any car you drive[/left]
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2010, 07:36 PM   #6
Gearhead999s
Major General
Gearhead999s's Avatar
557
Rep
7,803
Posts

Drives: RR Velar R=Dynamic M4 R1200GS
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ep99 View Post
Using their cars (M3 coupe DCT)...rumor is that this might be the last year for M3...next year could be M5.
That is not a bad deal as Mustang rental at Calabogie is about $1600 a day.I figure that my costs excluding entry fees are about $1000 day.Do still have to do the 2 lower level schools before doing Fascination or does other experiance count?
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2010, 06:53 AM   #7
ep99
Private First Class
Canada
9
Rep
161
Posts

Drives: 2016 X6M
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

It's pricey but as i have said...if you are comprehensive about using your own car on the track. This is one way to get your feet wet.
They also throw in class lessons on car dynamics and trajectory theory on track.
Who knows...you might be more comfortable after this experience to start using your own car.

And unfortunately you do have to go through the other courses as prerequisite.
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2010, 06:11 PM   #8
DionDion
Enlisted Member
0
Rep
39
Posts

Drives: 335
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Hamilton

iTrader: (0)

How late are these run, or are they over this year?
Appreciate 0
      10-20-2010, 06:42 PM   #9
ep99
Private First Class
Canada
9
Rep
161
Posts

Drives: 2016 X6M
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

It's only once a year and it's usually in late September.
I don't think they have Fascination II this year either.
Not enough people had signed up...i guess.

But most of the people in the group that i was in were repeater.
Some of them had done the course a couple of times.

I have heard that they might be merging Fascination I and II together next year and make it a three days course.

Got to admit...it took at least the 2nd day to get familiarize with the track and trying to remember what is require for each turn.

And the 2nd day is also when they open up the whole track to us and it was very satisfying when you can put the theory and mechanic together and burn rubber.
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2010, 03:28 PM   #10
335BBS
Brigadier General
Canada
50
Rep
3,606
Posts

Drives: 2009 335 coupe.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by skierman64 View Post
Sounds like fun but ouch that's pricey. For about $500 you could do the same thing with the BMWCCA (BMWCC) or the Audi club. That would leave you $2800 leftover to buy tires and or brake pads if needed (most likely not for a 2 day school).

That would be at the same track for 2 days with the same caliber of instruction.
.....and if you happen to have an accident???
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2010, 03:29 PM   #11
Gearhead999s
Major General
Gearhead999s's Avatar
557
Rep
7,803
Posts

Drives: RR Velar R=Dynamic M4 R1200GS
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaker View Post
.....and if you happen to have an accident???
And your point is?
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2010, 05:21 PM   #12
skierman64
Brigadier General
skierman64's Avatar
United_States
92
Rep
3,070
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 Space Gray M3 & E36M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Greater St Louis Metro area

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
1994 325is Race Car  [0.00]
2011 BMW Z4  [0.00]
1998 M3 Coupe  [0.00]
2008 M3 Coupe  [0.00]
Send a message via Yahoo to skierman64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaker View Post
.....and if you happen to have an accident???
If your insurance company doesn't cover you for driver training (some do/some don't) You can buy insurance specifically for the track. Depending on the value of the car it's $100-$300 per event (not per day) or about $1500 for a whole year. That still saves a lot of dough over the price of the fascination school.

I've done over 50 schools. I've never seen a student in the beginner or intermediate groups wreck a car. It's usually the guys running advanced or the instructors in track prepared cars that are running track tires and trick suspensions that have issues. Those issues are quite rare, but they do happen.
__________________
Invest Wisely...The best mod for your money?? BMWCCA high performance driver's school. The mod that lasts a lifetime and improves the performance of any car you drive[/left]
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2010, 05:45 PM   #13
ep99
Private First Class
Canada
9
Rep
161
Posts

Drives: 2016 X6M
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

We did sign a release form that you are responsible to any damages to the car.
And BMW is not responsible to your injury on the track.

During the course...i saw people hitting cones and stuffs.
Parts are coming off the car and no one seems to care.

As someone said...i have yet to see a major incident in all the courses that I have attended.

And they paired you with another driver.
Reason being they hope if you don't care what happen to yourself...you might think twice about doing something stupid with someone else in the car with you.

Also, that's why you are supposed to take prerequisite courses and progress your way towards track racing.

Last edited by ep99; 10-22-2010 at 05:53 PM. Reason: more info
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2010, 07:02 PM   #14
Gearhead999s
Major General
Gearhead999s's Avatar
557
Rep
7,803
Posts

Drives: RR Velar R=Dynamic M4 R1200GS
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by skierman64 View Post
If your insurance company doesn't cover you for driver training (some do/some don't) You can buy insurance specifically for the track. Depending on the value of the car it's $100-$300 per event (not per day) or about $1500 for a whole year. That still saves a lot of dough over the price of the fascination school.

I've done over 50 schools. I've never seen a student in the beginner or intermediate groups wreck a car. It's usually the guys running advanced or the instructors in track prepared cars that are running track tires and trick suspensions that have issues. Those issues are quite rare, but they do happen.
I have not found anybody in Canada that will provide a specific coverage for track usage.Yes lots of companies will cover driving schools but most like mine do not want to know anything about usage on a "racing circuit" and will deny coverage and terminate your policy.
Most of the incidents that I have seen are in the novice & intermediate groups often with the instructor onboard.I have found that the hot shoe & instructor groups tend to be incident free with the exception of car breakages.
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2010, 10:45 PM   #15
skierman64
Brigadier General
skierman64's Avatar
United_States
92
Rep
3,070
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 Space Gray M3 & E36M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Greater St Louis Metro area

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
1994 325is Race Car  [0.00]
2011 BMW Z4  [0.00]
1998 M3 Coupe  [0.00]
2008 M3 Coupe  [0.00]
Send a message via Yahoo to skierman64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
Yes lots of companies will cover driving schools but most like mine do not want to know anything about usage on a "racing circuit" and will deny coverage and terminate your policy.
The schools I was referring to were schools on a racing circuit not street survival school in a parking lot The company that provides specific coverage for schools on racing circuit is lockton-affinity. If you google them it might not be a bad idea to approach them about covering Canadian events. I don't know how that would work, however.

The two incidents I was present for this season was an Advanced solo student at the Glen turned late into turn 3 and then lifted and an Instructor at Mont Tremblant who said his car ran out of gas at turn 7 and the back end came around on him. No one in either accident was injured.
__________________
Invest Wisely...The best mod for your money?? BMWCCA high performance driver's school. The mod that lasts a lifetime and improves the performance of any car you drive[/left]

Last edited by skierman64; 10-22-2010 at 11:36 PM.
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2010, 11:26 PM   #16
Gearhead999s
Major General
Gearhead999s's Avatar
557
Rep
7,803
Posts

Drives: RR Velar R=Dynamic M4 R1200GS
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by skierman64 View Post
The schools I was referring to were schools on a racing circuit not street survival school. in a parking lot The company that provides specific coverage for schools on racing circuit is lockton-affinity. If you google them it might not be a bad idea to approach them about covering Canadian events. I don't know how that would work, however.

The two incidents I was present for this season was an Advanced solo student at the Glen turned late into turn 3 and then lifted and an Instructor at Mont Tremblant who said his car ran out of gas at turn 7 and the back end came around on him. No one in either accident was injured.
I amo referring to track events not parking lot type events.I was involved in trying to put a program together for trackday insurance with Lloyds as the underwriter but it it did not happen as there was a change in the insurance broker that was involved.I am pretty sure that the American companies cannot offer insurance to Canadians in Canada unless they are licenced in Canada.Still might be worthwhile to check it out though.
Appreciate 0
      10-24-2010, 09:24 AM   #17
ep99
Private First Class
Canada
9
Rep
161
Posts

Drives: 2016 X6M
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

It will be good if someone have information about track insurance.
I have been attending these driving courses and everyone just kind of laugh about damaging the car when the topic came up.

As i have said...the morning of the second day is pouring rain and we were doing the high speed lane change exercise...about 130 km.
At one point it was pretty hairy...the second group that followed us has to tone down the speed to 90 km caused one person actually lost control and spin out.

Last edited by ep99; 10-24-2010 at 09:25 AM. Reason: info
Appreciate 0
      01-02-2011, 04:42 PM   #18
ep99
Private First Class
Canada
9
Rep
161
Posts

Drives: 2016 X6M
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Smile

Just found a few videos sitting around in my canon.

It's certainly not a video about speed...just what to expect for the course.
Choose HD option if you can.


Last edited by ep99; 01-02-2011 at 05:11 PM.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:13 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST