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      09-24-2010, 08:27 AM   #1
Gearhead999s
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Anybody else have an issue with tire slippage on their track wheels?

I cleaned my 2 sets of track wheels earlier in the week and noticed that the rears on my NT05's have moved 1/2 a turn and my RA1's have moved about a 1/4 turn.I noticed this because of the indexing that I did the last time I cleaned them and the NT05's going out of balance quite badly after the 1st usage.
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      09-24-2010, 08:59 AM   #2
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Stop dropping the hammer, Cole

The RA1's did it once in a while on the SM but it never seemed to make a difference in balance, and that was with a whopping 120whp. Some bead lubes make it worse, the Goodyear people at the track use a different kind that becomes gummy when it dries instead of the soap based stuff.
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      09-24-2010, 09:12 AM   #3
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Stop dropping the hammer, Cole

The RA1's did it once in a while on the SM but it never seemed to make a difference in balance, and that was with a whopping 120whp. Some bead lubes make it worse, the Goodyear people at the track use a different kind that becomes gummy when it dries instead of the soap based stuff.
There was a article that was e-mailed to me about this from one of the tire companies which I think is on my old home computer.I told my tire installer about this and he only put the lube on the inner part of the bead and said that waiting a week or so would help with this issue which seems to have made little difference.
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      09-24-2010, 09:14 AM   #4
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There's got to be a solution out there.

Call competition tire east, the people who do trackside support for Goodyear. They deal with a lot of heavy high-hp roadrace cars that use the DOT Goodyear GSCS like 450hp, 3500lb American Sedans, and may have found a solution. (610) 375-6191
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      09-24-2010, 09:18 AM   #5
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Found the article!

http://marktg.toyotires.com/file/rimslip.pdf
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      09-25-2010, 09:49 PM   #6
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Yup, have this issue big time. One thing about NT-01's is that they alway seem to require a lot of weights to balance them properly, so even the smallest amount of slippage is very noticeable with them.

Another 'must' for our cars is to cover the wheel weights with aluminum tape. Our brakes generate so much heat, they will fall off otherwise.
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      09-27-2010, 11:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
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Yup, have this issue big time. One thing about NT-01's is that they alway seem to require a lot of weights to balance them properly, so even the smallest amount of slippage is very noticeable with them.

Another 'must' for our cars is to cover the wheel weights with aluminum tape. Our brakes generate so much heat, they will fall off otherwise.
NT-01s are great tires, but I know some are harder to balance than others.

A/C duct tape works for the most part, but the brakes get so hot I suggest some fans between sessions.
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      09-27-2010, 11:37 AM   #8
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NT-01s are great tires, but I know some are harder to balance than others.

A/C duct tape works for the most part, but the brakes get so hot I suggest some fans between sessions.
Yes I do think "Fans" are a good idea

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      09-27-2010, 03:25 PM   #9
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Yes I do think "Fans" are a good idea



Do you bring your own or do you win them over at the track?
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      09-27-2010, 03:41 PM   #10
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Yes I do think "Fans" are a good idea

What were we talking about again????
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      09-27-2010, 04:03 PM   #11
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Do you bring your own or do you win them over at the track?
Only in my much younger days

Now they help they change my tires but not anything else

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      09-27-2010, 04:38 PM   #12
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Very nice! That pic makes up slow lap times.
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      09-28-2010, 04:07 PM   #13
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It happened often to me when I had Dunlop Star Spec and Discount Tire mounted them. Since I have been using a racing shop for my tire and wheel needs, has not occurred again.
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      10-22-2010, 01:56 PM   #14
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I've got an update regarding the tire slippage. I just has my new set of NT01's mouted at the race shop at infineon. He cleaned my wheels with brake cleaner to remove any previous goo from the last installer and mounted my new tires without ANY lubricant.

After one session my rear tires slipped by about 3" on the rim. The front tires were fine. The tire guy said that this is a big issue for the pro racers he services and most of them have their wheels 'roughed up' in the mounting surfaces. He said that some high end wheels like BBS come textured in that area.

At any rate, it seems like there's not much that can be done about this. I may try rotating my rear tires from left to right to see if I can have them slip back in to place ever other event, but it looks like I'll either be spending a fortune balanceing my wheels every track event or living with shaking at speed.
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      10-22-2010, 02:27 PM   #15
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I found out last weekend that there is a cure for this from a former champion Corvette factory racer.He told me that wheel flex contributes to this issue and wheels like Fiskes have this issue big time which he showed to me on a 650bhp vette with Hoosiers on it that had moved 180 degrees in the day.He said the trick is to mount the tires with lubricants and inflate them to 50 psi deflate them,break the bead,clean the bead and spray the bead with hairspray and refinlate.Problem solved according to him.The race car that was on Hoosiers mounted on Forgelines that were indexed did not move at all from what I saw.I will try this next time for sure.
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      10-22-2010, 02:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
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I found out last weekend that there is a cure for this from a former champion Corvette factory racer.He told me that wheel flex contributes to this issue and wheels like Fiskes have this issue big time which he showed to me on a 650bhp vette with Hoosiers on it that had moved 180 degrees in the day.He said the trick is to mount the tires with lubricants and inflate them to 50 psi deflate them,break the bead,clean the bead and spray the bead with hairspray and refinlate.Problem solved according to him.The race car that was on Hoosiers mounted on Forgelines that were indexed did not move at all from what I saw.I will try this next time for sure.
That sounds like part superstition part science - but if it works ..
So the hairspray assumably creates a sticky surface??
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      10-22-2010, 02:42 PM   #17
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The theory is the the alcohol in the hairspray removes the lube and dries the surface. Probably no more effective than using a drying lube and removing as much as possible after mounting.
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      10-22-2010, 02:56 PM   #18
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The theory is the the alcohol in the hairspray removes the lube and dries the surface. Probably no more effective than using a drying lube and removing as much as possible after mounting.
That is why I am suprised that my tire slipped when no lube was used to begin with.
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      10-22-2010, 03:08 PM   #19
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Slippage can happen regardless. Technology like beads and knurling has shown some pretty impressive results though. You might want to look into it at your next tire change. It is expensive and typically overkill for street cars where wheel torque and tire grip aren't as much at odds but running NT01s may be worth it. The GTR is the only street car I know of using it on their wheels. Many racing applications use it however as you mentioned.
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      10-22-2010, 03:16 PM   #20
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Slippage can happen regardless. Technology like beads and knurling has shown some pretty impressive results though. You might want to look into it at your next tire change. It is expensive and typically overkill for street cars where wheel torque and tire grip aren't as much at odds but running NT01s may be worth it. The GTR is the only street car I know of using it on their wheels. Many racing applications use it however as you mentioned.
You do not need race tires for this to happen as my full tread depth NT05's also did this.
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      10-22-2010, 03:18 PM   #21
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You do not need race tires for this to happen as my full tread depth NT05's also did this.
Did yours happen in only the rear as well?
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      10-22-2010, 03:23 PM   #22
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Did yours happen in only the rear as well?
All 4 wheels but more rotation in the in the rear which were about 180 degrees.Maybe this picture provides a clue and this is at 44 psi hot but there is a lot of deflection in the tire.

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