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      10-24-2010, 10:09 AM   #133
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Each car is a performance car in its niche.

I run both HPDE and autocross and can comment on both. For the track, especially higher speed ones ( Watkins Glen in my experience), the M3 is far superior in stock form over the STI. ( Modified you can probably make a VW bug faster than anything, so let not go there). On tighter courses ( Pocono infield) the difference can close some what.

M3 has more power, but weighs more.

On autocross courses, the STI shines. tighter courses it rules. I run two types of autocross events, the first with the SCCA using tighter courses were STI's, modified mazdas, and mini's seem to rule and a second series of events run by the local BMW club, using a higher speed layout, where all the local M3's, corvettes, and porsches play.


So for performance, you pick your car for what you what to do and no car is best at everything.

I am currently purchasing an M3 as I like it's look, feel, noise, and performance mix. If I was rallycrossing on dirt roads the STI ( or X6M?) might have been my choice.
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      10-24-2010, 11:10 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by jdgamble View Post
Let me preface this by saying that the EVO is a fun car, but, in my opinion (and probably many on this board will agree with me), the M3 is more than twice the car. The EVO (and STI) feel like tin cans compared to ANY BMW. I sat in both at a recent car show, and I'm pretty sure the interior plastics are derived from recycled elementary school trash cans. I say elementary school cuz the $12 trash can I got at Target (TM) feels like a much higher quality plastic than the EVO interior. To me, the EVO feels like a toy... like the Star Wars action figures I had when I was like 8... with the dangerous lead-based paint... you know the ones. The M3, on the other hand, is the perfect blend of luxury, performance, practicality, and quality. I'm sure you can understand and agree with this perspective!

Glad we had this little talk
the interior plastics ARE crap, but if you add $40k on the price of an evo do you think the plastics would still be that crappy? THATS what im trying to say. instead of looking at it from a "holy crap this is a lot of car for $35k" you guys look at it from a "it doesnt have this, doesnt have that, my this is better than that, etc."
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      10-24-2010, 12:15 PM   #135
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the interior plastics ARE crap, but if you add $40k on the price of an evo do you think the plastics would still be that crappy? THATS what im trying to say. instead of looking at it from a "holy crap this is a lot of car for $35k" you guys look at it from a "it doesnt have this, doesnt have that, my this is better than that, etc."
You can add 40k to any car and improve its shortcomings. Why not just buy one out of the box? I think that's the point others are making. If someone wants the luxery, build quality and materials, why on earth would they buy an Evo and install those things? People are continuously trying to point out the differences because we are all paying for those differences. We don't want a factory modified lancer or evo. You'll find those guys on the Evo/STI forums, not here.
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      10-24-2010, 02:48 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Scoobe View Post
You can add 40k to any car and improve its shortcomings. Why not just buy one out of the box? I think that's the point others are making. If someone wants the luxery, build quality and materials, why on earth would they buy an Evo and install those things? People are continuously trying to point out the differences because we are all paying for those differences. We don't want a factory modified lancer or evo. You'll find those guys on the Evo/STI forums, not here.
$70k aint no chump change.

my point all along is that cars like the evo were designed with a $35k msrp. so when people talk crap about its crappy interior, its a big DUH!!! of course its lower price means it will be designed and built lacking in some areas, especially in the materials and fit/finish. however if you look past that fact, its a wonderful car for what it is. but thats the thing. a lot of people on this board simply CAN'T look past it. they continually harp on things that are totally obvious and NEVER look at things in a relative way, or from a different perspective...

cobalt SS is a ridiculously good car, for what it is. yet the idiots fail to see that. they talk crap about its interior, the fact that its a cobalt, gm, etc. etc. etc. they never mention that it can be had with a LSD when the $50k 335iS doesnt. yeah lets not look at things like that. lets continually bash the car in our closed minded ignorance...
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      10-24-2010, 03:21 PM   #137
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cobalt SS is a ridiculously good car, for what it is. yet the idiots fail to see that.
so that's why the car is being discontinued....

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car..._dead-car_news

For the same amount of money, most "idiots" probably just jump on a GTI or Mazdaspeed 3...
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      10-24-2010, 07:20 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by madfast View Post
$70k aint no chump change.

my point all along is that cars like the evo were designed with a $35k msrp. so when people talk crap about its crappy interior, its a big DUH!!! of course its lower price means it will be designed and built lacking in some areas, especially in the materials and fit/finish. however if you look past that fact, its a wonderful car for what it is. but thats the thing. a lot of people on this board simply CAN'T look past it. they continually harp on things that are totally obvious and NEVER look at things in a relative way, or from a different perspective...

cobalt SS is a ridiculously good car, for what it is. yet the idiots fail to see that. they talk crap about its interior, the fact that its a cobalt, gm, etc. etc. etc. they never mention that it can be had with a LSD when the $50k 335iS doesnt. yeah lets not look at things like that. lets continually bash the car in our closed minded ignorance...
I see you drive an Evo MR just like me.
I see your point, but I dont agree. The Evo is a great car, yes. it is fun to drive and all that. i love my evo, but I want something more luxury and fast at the same time. you pay for that, you pay for the looks, you pay for the name brand, you pay for the quality material. the interior of the M3 is ridiculously better than the Evo. and im not one to talk crap about the Evo's interior. it is just fact. the M3 is a higher class car. the evo is a mean street car.
i just think it is hard to compare both cars, and I think most Evo owner, if given a chance to choose between the Evo and the M3 would go for the M3.
I poster a thread about making my decision on evoxforums.com and most of the guys told me to get the M3 if I had the chance.
The Evo crowd is a really nice community, and I plan on keep going to meets and all that even if I trade the evo in for the M.. i met good people with the Evo and I had and have so much fun driving it. i think we should stop comparing..
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      10-25-2010, 01:38 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madfast View Post
it just so happens that the mitsu DCT is made by getrag and is one of the best DCT's on the market. its actually not so far off from the M DCT, also made by getrag, so its not "just a DCT"...

in fact the dct transmission is a perfect example of what im trying to say. is M DCT better than SST? sure you bet, but it also costs more. the M3 is an expensive car so they can tell getrag i want 7 speeds and a crapload of software to change shift points etc... the SST? it has 6 speeds and 3 modes. thats it. could they have had multiple shift modes as well? SURE! it would just cost more. but the evo isnt an expensive car so they couldnt.

so you have to ask yourself this. should we be in awe of how awesome M DCT is? or maybe perhaps we should be surprised that a lesser version of that same tranny is available in a car half the price? be surprised that the SST is basically a lower version of trannies found in the M3, 458, and SLS? is the SST a crap tranny because it only has 3 modes? or is it one of the best trannies you can get for that price range?

its a perspective thing. get off your pedestal sometimes and look at things from a different perspective....
well said actually. I have to agree with you on this one, to be honest never a fan of dct but they did actually perform really well. since I have no idea how much difference between the spec and the performance of both m dct and sst I can't just say m dct is better because it has more gears. Like I said originally EVO is a great car for its price. M3 is a great car for its own price as well. The goal of both car is different. EVO is to be pure fast car with minimal cost . while BMW trying to do with m3 is trying to build a benchmark for luxury performance sedan, of course the term luxury now is flexible because the martial cost, that is why m3 cost considerable more than a EVO. You can't say M3 is not twice the car as EVO, but you can't say m3 is twice the car as EVO either.
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      10-25-2010, 02:20 PM   #140
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I own an '05 STi with 380whp and an '08 135i with JB+.

The car I want to drive around town and to work is the 135i.

The car I want to utterly abuse when I'm in the mood to go fast is the STi.
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      10-25-2010, 10:55 PM   #141
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I can't believe this thread is still alive! I do not understand why conversations go so south on the internet. If I was having this conversation face to face with you guys, no one would be calling anyone else an idiot etc, but idk its e-penis i guess.

Once again my purpose of this thread was not to hear that the sti is comparable, etc. I merely wanted the perspective of my car from a different crowd. Life is all about perspective, and I was trying to gain some. So please, calling me an idiot etc. is childish (sorry but typical evo owner ).

So what I have gathered, is it's all about what stage of life you are in and where your priorities are. My POV on a car is based on performance and that soul factor. I believe m3's are so refined and mature, it almost takes a certain fun out of it. My sti does some strange things and makes some weird noises, but it makes me love it, it has soul. When I become more mature, these things will most likely not be charming anymore, hence a car like an m3 coming along.

So there you go, here is my final box score:

Sti- 95% of the performance (at stock)
25% of the luxury/status/etc

M3- great performance
great luxury
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      10-26-2010, 04:08 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Leonardo629 View Post
so that's why the car is being discontinued....

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car..._dead-car_news

For the same amount of money, most "idiots" probably just jump on a GTI or Mazdaspeed 3...
The Cobalt SS has been discontinued because the entire Cobalt line has been supplanted by the Cruze.

Make no mistake, though. The SS was and is a terrific track or back road toy, easily blowing away the GTI or Mazdaspeed 3 either in a straight line or on a road course.

Proof point: Around the 'Ring, a stock 260 HP Cobalt SS has run 8:22.85, compared with the E46 M3 time of 8:22, a Lotus Exige at 8:25, and a 335i at 8:26.

Note that in its last couple of years of production, it was also available with a dealer-installed power pack that offered 290 HP.

In the quarter mile, high 13s were the norm, at 102-104 MPH. I've watched a stock power-pack car run a traction-impaired 13.6 @ 107.

Certainly the car had a low-rent interior compared to the GTI, but in my opinion it was a little better inside (tastewise, if not in overall quality) than the boy-racer Mazda.

I'm sorry it's no longer available, because if you're in that venue, it's the nearly perfect track-day car or early-Sunday-morning back-road bandit right out of the box. 100K drive-train warranty, too.
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      10-27-2010, 09:04 AM   #143
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^^

I agree about the SS, it was almost annoying how fast it was for the money.

But you're talking about a car the people in the STi forums considered very low rent compared to their car, now bring that into a BMW forum...not going to get respect even if it ran a 7:59 on the ring like some other American made car...
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      10-27-2010, 09:25 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by M3LOL View Post
I can't believe this thread is still alive! I do not understand why conversations go so south on the internet. If I was having this conversation face to face with you guys, no one would be calling anyone else an idiot etc, but idk its e-penis i guess.

Once again my purpose of this thread was not to hear that the sti is comparable, etc. I merely wanted the perspective of my car from a different crowd. Life is all about perspective, and I was trying to gain some. So please, calling me an idiot etc. is childish (sorry but typical evo owner ).

So what I have gathered, is it's all about what stage of life you are in and where your priorities are. My POV on a car is based on performance and that soul factor. I believe m3's are so refined and mature, it almost takes a certain fun out of it. My sti does some strange things and makes some weird noises, but it makes me love it, it has soul. When I become more mature, these things will most likely not be charming anymore, hence a car like an m3 coming along.

So there you go, here is my final box score:

Sti- 95% of the performance (at stock)
25% of the luxury/status/etc

M3- great performance
great luxury
Sti 95% of m3 performance? What herb are you smoking? My TurboXS Stage 4 wasn't even 95% of my M3s performance?

Honestly, I don't even understand why you Sti/EVO/Cobalt/Neon guys come to an M3 forum.

Go buy an m3, and then you can talk all the smack you want because your opinion and comparison will then actually be valid.

The mods should close this worthless thread.

-SZ
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      10-27-2010, 09:58 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by M3LOL View Post
I can't believe this thread is still alive! I do not understand why conversations go so south on the internet. If I was having this conversation face to face with you guys, no one would be calling anyone else an idiot etc, but idk its e-penis i guess.

Once again my purpose of this thread was not to hear that the sti is comparable, etc. I merely wanted the perspective of my car from a different crowd. Life is all about perspective, and I was trying to gain some. So please, calling me an idiot etc. is childish (sorry but typical evo owner ).

So what I have gathered, is it's all about what stage of life you are in and where your priorities are. My POV on a car is based on performance and that soul factor. I believe m3's are so refined and mature, it almost takes a certain fun out of it. My sti does some strange things and makes some weird noises, but it makes me love it, it has soul. When I become more mature, these things will most likely not be charming anymore, hence a car like an m3 coming along.

So there you go, here is my final box score:

Sti- 95% of the performance (at stock)
25% of the luxury/status/etc

M3- great performance
great luxury
tl;dr derp
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      10-27-2010, 10:00 AM   #146
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      10-27-2010, 10:10 AM   #147
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I had an 03 Evo VIII with full bolt-ons, cams, and a little extra boost (kept a conservative tune) making a little over 300 whp on a mustang Dyno. It was a great car, very fast. It was especially great in bad weather. I could cruise around in the snow with summer tires on the car.

But in the end I sold it for my E46 M3 (even though the EVO was faster in most areas). I just wanted a more comfortable daily driver, a Naturally Aspirated engine, and I am definitely liking the SMG for daily use. It just works out better for my needs right now. In fact I am liking it so much I'm looking at ordering a 2012 M3 in the Spring (and that says a lot from me because I don't like spending more than 25k on a car that isn't collectible, and I generally won't buy new).
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      10-27-2010, 12:57 PM   #148
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Quote:
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Honestly, I don't even understand why you Sti/EVO/Cobalt/Neon guys come to an M3 forum.
Why not. There's a large population of M3 owners who came from Evos and STIs, including myself

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3LOL View Post
Once again my purpose of this thread was not to hear that the sti is comparable, etc. I merely wanted the perspective of my car from a different crowd. Life is all about perspective, and I was trying to gain some. So please, calling me an idiot etc. is childish (sorry but typical evo owner ).

Sti- 95% of the performance (at stock)
What's "typical" about Evo owners? Perhaps the fact that with just $1,500 worth of mods they can get into 11's?

95% of performance at stock? Typical STI owner.


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I had an 03 Evo VIII with full bolt-ons, cams, and a little extra boost (kept a conservative tune) making a little over 300 whp on a mustang Dyno. It was a great car, very fast. It was especially great in bad weather. I could cruise around in the snow with summer tires on the car.
OEM Advans in the snow? U got balls
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      10-27-2010, 04:46 PM   #149
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I had an 03 Evo VIII with full bolt-ons, cams, and a little extra boost (kept a conservative tune) making a little over 300 whp on a mustang Dyno. It was a great car, very fast. It was especially great in bad weather. I could cruise around in the snow with summer tires on the car.

But in the end I sold it for my E46 M3 (even though the EVO was faster in most areas). I just wanted a more comfortable daily driver, a Naturally Aspirated engine, and I am definitely liking the SMG for daily use. It just works out better for my needs right now. In fact I am liking it so much I'm looking at ordering a 2012 M3 in the Spring (and that says a lot from me because I don't like spending more than 25k on a car that isn't collectible, and I generally won't buy new).
oh god, wait till your smg doing the stupid chicken dance.

i have one myself right now and it is brilliant when nothing goes wrong. when it does though, oh my fwcking god it's sh1t.
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      10-28-2010, 11:37 AM   #150
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oh god, wait till your smg doing the stupid chicken dance.

i have one myself right now and it is brilliant when nothing goes wrong. when it does though, oh my fwcking god it's sh1t.
So far the SMG has been flawless. I can't say the same for the VANOS or the subframe though... lol
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      10-28-2010, 11:44 AM   #151
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OEM Advans in the snow? U got balls
I was running some 18inch Emo rims at the time so not stock tires, can't remember what I went with on those though... Definitely summer tires.

The next year I tried doing the same thing in my E46 (during the big snowstorm we had in the East over this last winter) and let's just say it was a bad idea. In a 5 mile drive I almost hit a State Trooper in his SUV and then got stuck in the parking lot at my work! But hey, at least I made it to work! Thinking back on it I was really lucky something worse didn't happen.

I won't be trying that again!
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      11-08-2010, 08:32 AM   #152
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LMAO some good reading.. in some parts.. I own a 2010 Evo X, and its sitting @ 320awhp-340tq on a dyno dynamics, stock turbo.. fun car and all, also can do a 12.3 on the 1/4.. but I love these new M3's cant get over everything from the looks and the sound of this beast! I hope I get a chance to buy one in the near future, and hope to meet up some locals @ a track and see how well they perform!

any ways since I currently own a Evo.. I would just like to say STY?????
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      11-08-2010, 09:02 AM   #153
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This thread is funny. I had a 2008 Evo X until last month when I traded it in on my 2008 M3. Evo X was an amazing car, performance wise it was right up there with my M3 after some basic bolt ons and a tune. But performance isnt everything, I could buy an old civic and make it faster than a M3. My 20 year old TT 300zx is faster than a stock M3. But my M3 is amazingly more comfortable, doesnt rattle (Evo was horrible about rattles), has performance, has looks that kill, all the technology in the world, and is a BMW. Thats what I paid the extra cash for =)
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      11-08-2010, 09:07 AM   #154
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oh god, wait till your smg doing the stupid chicken dance.

i have one myself right now and it is brilliant when nothing goes wrong. when it does though, oh my fwcking god it's sh1t.
I have a PY M3 too
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