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      11-12-2010, 03:40 PM   #199
Hawk Lax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
No offense intended here, but the M3 feels fat to me as well - because it is.

Any handling advantage the M3 has is when you compare it to its direct competition.

In the greater scheme of things, it's a good handler, but simply not a great handler. It's far too big and heavy for that, and of course that shows up in a track environment - along with that weakness in the brakes.

Look, it's terrific. Just not omnipotent.

An aside:

"Car" magazine just did a comparison test between the hottest M3 against the C63, IS-F and RS5. They of course loved the M3, also loved the C63, thought the IS-F was a great effort tempered by that glaring ride flaw - and absolutely trashed the RS5.

M3 was the best handler in that crowd, of course. But my point is that there are better handling cars available. Period.
No offense intended, but wait you drive a Subie Legacy GT and are calling an M3 fat!?!? Ok there killer, let me know how that GT thing goes at the track What's its comparison crowd? station wagons? Drive an M3 at the track or go for a ride in one on the track with the stability control off and a experienced driver behind the wheel and your opinion will drastically change.

Last edited by Hawk Lax; 11-12-2010 at 04:12 PM.
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      11-12-2010, 06:44 PM   #200
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my modded Neon SRT4 is pushing 500 hp, I'll rape all your faces...
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      11-13-2010, 01:50 PM   #201
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Yeah STI's are cool...id love to have one to drive in the snow nd beat on so i dont have get my M3 dirty
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      11-14-2010, 12:29 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk Lax View Post
No offense intended, but wait you drive a Subie Legacy GT and are calling an M3 fat!?!? Ok there killer, let me know how that GT thing goes at the track What's its comparison crowd? station wagons? Drive an M3 at the track or go for a ride in one on the track with the stability control off and a experienced driver behind the wheel and your opinion will drastically change.
Haven't driven one at the track, and only have around four or five hours total behind the wheel of several M3s, including a DCT model, but anyone who knows anything about these cars knows that they are far from an optimum track handler, not even counting the brake problem.

I have several friends from when I was a multi-year track rat, and they all say their E9X M3s understeer way too much, and the brakes need upgrading right away, or they're toast in typically a half dozen laps - or even a bit less, depending on the track.

These guys are all instructors (as I was before chucking it a couple of years back due to boredom and an unwillingness to move up to actual racing), and I trust their collective opinions.

Of course, I also have a prejudice springing from the E36 and E46 M3s which have graced our garage, and that is when they get bigger they're less fun to drive. Our E36 was more fun than our E46 simply because of size and weight. The E46 was a better overall car, but less fun to drive, period.

The E9X cars are quite a bit heavier than the E46. Around 200 pounds or so as long as you don't opt for the sunroof. The net of this is that although they're fast because of the power, they are far from optimum on track, period. They're just very good compared to most of their direct competitors.

The most fun track car I ever owned was a '98 Neon ACR. It weighed 2560 pounds.

Look, I don't mind getting into a pissing contest with you, but it seems as if you don't have much track experience if you think the M3 is the cat's meow out there, so we really don't have a whole bunch to talk about.

Don't know why my Subie (my first, and I love it as much as my E36 M3) matters to you, but I'm quite sure it will kick butt against any bimmer with a "28" in it's designation, and probably stay moderately close to the "35" cars until they overheat and have to pit. It has very nice steering and turn-in, and will turn sub 13.5 second quarter miles at 102 plus due to a few new electrons in the ECM. So your derision is, uh, pretty much standard stuff for the type who value themselves by the car they drive. Get over it. A Caddy will blow you into the weeds, ferchrissake.

Oh. The Subie weighs just under 3500 pounds, full of gas, oil and coolant on a certified scale. I guess that's another reason I call the M3 fat.

The current M3 is an absolutely terrific car. However, it's way too big and heavy for my (admittedly prejudiced) taste in this particular type of car - especially considering past M3 products.

Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 11-14-2010 at 12:35 AM.
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      11-14-2010, 02:45 AM   #203
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^^^^

Respect for even being willing to have these continued conversations with the fanbois Bruce.
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      11-15-2010, 07:46 AM   #204
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Demographics indicate that Subaru owners are also likely to have a BMW in the same garage (or is it vice-versa?).

We just happen to have a Subaru WRX STi that has been modded with Turbo upgrades, swapping to a front mount intercooler instead of top mount, many suspension parts have been replaced with higher performance parts and the list goes on...

With the AWD system and the various ride and handling adjustments the STi offers, it's definitely a car worth driving and mods as everyone knows here are pretty much endless. I'd have to say that in the snow, the STi can't be beat if both the STi and M3 were wearing a good set of snow shoes, but that's not the road condition most people will be comparing these two cars in. Watch the Rally cars with guys like Travis Pastrana and Dave Mira - those guys rip around on the snow tracks like they're dry pavement. You wouldn't see an M3 out there doing the same. With that said, I'm still a huge M3 fan myself so it's a good thing I'm not planning to become a Rally Racer.

Since I just sold my M Roadster, I'm now on the market to eliminate the awful performance bug that has bit me and I'm looking at an M3 for a replacement. Since it's not AWD, it's the single potential deterrent for me since I have a decent commute to work and I've always driven an AWD or 4X4 for my daily driver. I've got an Acura MDX SUV now and have no worries, but if I get an M3, I might do so on a trade. Garage space is limited.



I'm on the countdown to when the dealer opens this morning. I hope my Sales Consultant is working today!
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      11-15-2010, 01:09 PM   #205
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Can't believe this thread is still going. Gotta give credit to the M3forum for entertaining these trolls for what seems to be more than month...LOL!
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      11-15-2010, 02:13 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
If I'd go to Ikea to buy a desk for my daughter's dorm room I would take an SUV, etc.... get my point?
I don't get your point since a truck would be a better choice. Looks like Ford/GM's marketing worked on you.
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      11-16-2010, 07:28 AM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car_Girl View Post
Demographics indicate that Subaru owners are also likely to have a BMW in the same garage (or is it vice-versa?).

We just happen to have a Subaru WRX STi that has been modded with Turbo upgrades, swapping to a front mount intercooler instead of top mount, many suspension parts have been replaced with higher performance parts and the list goes on...

With the AWD system and the various ride and handling adjustments the STi offers, it's definitely a car worth driving and mods as everyone knows here are pretty much endless. I'd have to say that in the snow, the STi can't be beat if both the STi and M3 were wearing a good set of snow shoes, but that's not the road condition most people will be comparing these two cars in. Watch the Rally cars with guys like Travis Pastrana and Dave Mira - those guys rip around on the snow tracks like they're dry pavement. You wouldn't see an M3 out there doing the same. With that said, I'm still a huge M3 fan myself so it's a good thing I'm not planning to become a Rally Racer.

Since I just sold my M Roadster, I'm now on the market to eliminate the awful performance bug that has bit me and I'm looking at an M3 for a replacement. Since it's not AWD, it's the single potential deterrent for me since I have a decent commute to work and I've always driven an AWD or 4X4 for my daily driver. I've got an Acura MDX SUV now and have no worries, but if I get an M3, I might do so on a trade. Garage space is limited.



I'm on the countdown to when the dealer opens this morning. I hope my Sales Consultant is working today!
Yet another "I need a 4x4 to go to work" post. Unless you are a doctor, which I can tell by the quality of your posts that you aren't, you do not need a 4x4 just to get around unless you live up somewhere in the Canadian wilderness.
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      11-16-2010, 08:50 PM   #208
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i like the sti's. even the new models are growing on me. the original ones sucked, they were fast but handled like a bus.
subaru makes a solid car, they are designed to last, have torquey motors, and are a blast in the snow. a fun, practical, fast car.

why compare the 2? completely different purposes.. its like going to a dodge ram forum knowing neither the m3 or the sti can haul as much cargo..
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      11-17-2010, 12:56 AM   #209
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well said scoobe, my sentiments exactly!!
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      11-17-2010, 09:33 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
^ You just really can't compare the STI to an M3
......IYHO
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      11-17-2010, 11:19 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk Lax View Post
No offense intended, but wait you drive a Subie Legacy GT and are calling an M3 fat!?!? Ok there killer, let me know how that GT thing goes at the track What's its comparison crowd? station wagons? Drive an M3 at the track or go for a ride in one on the track with the stability control off and a experienced driver behind the wheel and your opinion will drastically change.
The car he drives notwithstanding, the guy you are berating has had some very knowledgable and informative posts in the past. He definitely knows more abour our M3s than you give him credit for, and I've come to respect his opinion.
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      11-18-2010, 10:12 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
The car he drives notwithstanding, the guy you are berating has had some very knowledgable and informative posts in the past. He definitely knows more abour our M3s than you give him credit for, and I've come to respect his opinion.
At no time did I berate him or make any personal comment, unlike his own comments towards me. I have track time in my M, other street cars and the formula skip barber cars so I have some idea what I am talking about. I never said an M3 was an optimal track car, the only optimal track car is just that one purpose built for the track. That's great that you respect his opinion. I know his background as a BMWCCA officer but to come on an M3 enthusiast website and bash the M3 and not expect to get called out on it is unrealistic. Equally delusional is a meaningful comparison between an STI and a M3. They are two completely different cars designed for completely different purposes. And comparing a modified anything to a stock car is just dumb.
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      11-18-2010, 12:50 PM   #213
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Sorry I own a m3 but those danm turbo charging 4 bangers have the get up and go.
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      11-18-2010, 01:38 PM   #214
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Anyone know where I can get a quad "fart can" exhaust for my M3? That might be all it is missing!

Would the STi forums be the appropriate place to start?

Should I expect any drone with 4 fart cans, or do they balance each other like an STi's cylinders?
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      11-25-2010, 01:31 AM   #215
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Dudes...what is the big deal.....I have both the STI and M3....life is good....
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      11-26-2010, 11:59 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlaynemd View Post
Anyone know where I can get a quad "fart can" exhaust for my M3? That might be all it is missing!

Would the STi forums be the appropriate place to start?

Should I expect any drone with 4 fart cans, or do they balance each other like an STi's cylinders?


anddddddd here we have the stereotypical BMW driver.

thank you sir, for contributing to us loooking like douchesbags.
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      11-29-2010, 12:26 AM   #217
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My good friend just ordered a 2011 STi. I tried to talk him out of it. No luck.

The fart can muffler term cracks me up. Just had to use it in a sentence.

Does Dinan or Eisenmann have any exhaust tips in say 175mm diameter?
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      11-29-2010, 09:40 AM   #218
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I might just be me, but the sound of the STIs flat 4 with a Cobb exhaust is friggin amazing.
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      11-29-2010, 10:18 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
I might just be me, but the sound of the STIs flat 4 with a Cobb exhaust is friggin amazing.
I agree, that flat motor sounds awesome.
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      11-29-2010, 10:37 AM   #220
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I used to own a 2004 Sti heavily modded and it's nothing to sleep on. These cars are pretty amazing with there tq and aren't to heavy. Yes they aren't as lux as the M3 but they are still bad ass cars. The Boxer with exhaust and tune are intoxicating. Tons of grip and loads of fun. Still would have had mine if it wasn't stolen from me.
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