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      08-31-2010, 01:16 PM   #23
WillC310
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Isn't "innocent until proven guilty" only reserved for criminal cases? I don't see this as a criminal case, more civil.

Anywho, to the OP: I'd bring it up with the dealer, and see if anything can be done about it. If not, forget about it and enjoy the car. Yes it's annoying but it shouldn't take away from the enjoyment of the car.
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      08-31-2010, 02:24 PM   #24
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No...burden of proof lies on the accuser not the accused. If I accuse you of stealing from me, it's not up to you to prove you didn't steal, I have to prove you stole from me. This is the most basic foundation of English law that is what America's law/court system is based on.

So, burden of proof would be on OP to prove dealer/BMWNA repainted. If dealer accuse him of repainting it, burden of proof is on dealer to prove it (a near impossible task).

That's what I was saying, if it happened at BMWNA's prep center, they should have documents that it was done, so if he really wanted to, he can pressure them to get the docs. BMW is a public company and they probably have higher standards than to lie and destroy documents. But BMWNA probably won't let it go that far and just give him something to make him whole.

If this is on the side of the independent dealer, i feel like half of them are sleezeballs and anything goes, they'll drag it to their grave if they have to, just my opinion. Doesn't hurt to ask.
Right, Complete agreement, but is he not the person making the original accusation that "somebody" repainted his car? Therefore he is making the original accusation, becoming the accuser, so burden of proof lies on him, correct?

Either way, I would just let it go. Same thing came to light on my car. I can't tell, but the pro detailer pointed it out. It bothered me at first, but the i just shrugged it off. It wasn't worth worrying about.
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      08-31-2010, 02:28 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by mexicanmike View Post
Right, Complete agreement, but is he not the person making the original accusation that "somebody" repainted his car? Therefore he is making the original accusation, becoming the accuser, so burden of proof lies on him, correct?

Either way, I would just let it go. Same thing came to light on my car. I can't tell, but the pro detailer pointed it out. It bothered me at first, but the i just shrugged it off. It wasn't worth worrying about.

yeah he needs to prove BMWNA or dealer sprayed it, I'm saying BMWNA is more likely to come clean than the dealer.

I agree, presonally, I would just let it go. Like what someone else said, it took a professional detailer with proper equipment to detect it, if you can't tell with your eyes, then let it go. I don't think there's much to be gained for the effort.

In fact I'll say it, I estimate a good 1/3 of us had our cars touched up or resprayed at the prep center after it was shipped. I remember back in 07/08, someone posted pics of E92s with body panel damage when a container tipped or fell, and ppl were all up and arms about how someone was going to get screwed b/c cars that were not totaled were going to get resold. It's just part of the business, this isn't new to BMW:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_of_...,_Inc._v._Gore

http://forums.evolutionm.net/northea...-throw-up.html

Last edited by mdosu; 08-31-2010 at 02:36 PM.
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      08-31-2010, 02:55 PM   #26
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Yea, I would be pissed if I found out my wife had some overspray from some other guy.
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      08-31-2010, 04:31 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
yeah he needs to prove BMWNA or dealer sprayed it, I'm saying BMWNA is more likely to come clean than the dealer.

I agree, presonally, I would just let it go. Like what someone else said, it took a professional detailer with proper equipment to detect it, if you can't tell with your eyes, then let it go. I don't think there's much to be gained for the effort.

In fact I'll say it, I estimate a good 1/3 of us had our cars touched up or resprayed at the prep center after it was shipped. I remember back in 07/08, someone posted pics of E92s with body panel damage when a container tipped or fell, and ppl were all up and arms about how someone was going to get screwed b/c cars that were not totaled were going to get resold. It's just part of the business, this isn't new to BMW:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_of_...,_Inc._v._Gore

http://forums.evolutionm.net/northea...-throw-up.html
Exactly. Sadly these units are probably packed in so tight on their way over here that most cars probably get some sort of paint damage just from other units rubbing into them/being moved out of ships/trucks. Minor paint doesn't worry me so much if it is re=painted by BMWNA because they do a very good job, hence why it took High intensity lighting and a keen eye to identify it.

Just like a very attractive women, you can't worry about what happened in the past, but you can enjoy the ride now. (In this case knowing there isnt any major damage)
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      09-01-2010, 11:46 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by AMOCHOSTO View Post
You'd have to be pretty naive to believe either a car dealer talking up a sale or a woman talking about giving up tail.
That's called sweet talk my friend. Who wouldn't fall for a car dealer salesman or a woman who is very convincing or even manipulative?


The OP paid top dollar for something he deserves and found out that there's a flaw he didn't knew about. Put yourself in the OP's shoes. Won't you be upset if you found out the same thing happened to your car?

IMHO, I would also be upset.
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      09-01-2010, 12:10 PM   #29
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Not worth stressing over IMO.
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      09-01-2010, 12:18 PM   #30
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I would make them a deal...

Tell them you acknowledge it and even though you are an m3 enthusiast and promote the brand like crazy to all your friends, it does bother you. However, you'd hate to give them extra work just because you are a fanatic, even though it should have been perfect. How about this... leave it as is, but if the paint gets worse due to the overspray or maybe becomes scratched, they repaint it for you.

You start at that, and maybe accept 50-75% discount on a paint job in the future. All your doing is accepting their fault, and meeting them halfway. I've been very successful dealing with them in this way. You did wait a year though, it's a gray area.
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