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      08-31-2010, 02:05 AM   #89
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The rumor of an V6 TT maked sence because of the possibility of using the M5s S63 V8 engine minus 2 cylinder!

But the newest rumors in german forums goes to an N55 based 3.5ltr. I6 with 3(!)turbos and an power-range between 445 and 455HP as early quotet by AutoBild!

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      08-31-2010, 02:08 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
+1

Faster is not always better. I really don't care about "faster"--if I did I'd go buy a Mustang and mod the hell out of it; or better yet a 'Vette and do the same. There, faster, done.

It's about balance, handling, "feel", agility, nimbleness, and fun for me. I'm sure it will be "better" from a numbers standpoint (faster, better track times, etc.) but will it be more fun? (Well, if stoplight drag racing or pure power are your thing, yes.) If you're into other things in your driving experience, then no, it will probably not be more fun (especially if they don't address the obesity problem).

So much fail in this thread.
How do you know the new f30 m3 will not have that "feel" and awesome driving experience? Have you gone into the future and driven one?

What you are saying has been said about each generation of m3 after the e30.

When the e36 m3 came out, people said it would deviate from the m3 because they added 2 cylinders to the engine.

When the e9x m3 came out, people said how they changed from a i6 to a v8 and much of a pig the m3 became.
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      08-31-2010, 02:29 AM   #91
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So here is how I personally see things.

I understand the purists here, but I'm sorry, I disagree with them. With every iteration of M3, there's always something to cry about from a purist standpoint. With the E46 it was going to a 6-cylinder engine, with the E9x it was going to a V8. The powerplant of a car is just that, a powerplant. As long as it has the characteristics favorable to performance, reliability, smoothness and drivability, I could care less if it was a V8 or a V6. With that said, certain layouts are more favorable to having these characteristics. Lets be honest, if money were no issue, we'd all be driving around in V12's.

If anyone can make a turbocharged I6, or even (GASP!) a V6 perform well, it's BMW. While the packaging has changed over the years, BMW has shown time and time again, that the M3 is an important icon to it's brand, and has always given it a gem of an engine. I believe any successor to this legacy, no matter what engine it's based off of, will continue this tradition.

Personally, I think a highly modified N55 engine wouldn't be bad at all. An in-line 6-cylinder engine is an inherintly balanced architecture. The N55 is also technologically state of the art with things such as direct injection and valvetronic. I also think that turbos aren't a bad thing. Again, they're not what the auto industry was using 20yrs ago. They spool up quickly and perform well. Add to that thier tuning potential and it could be a great platform to have.
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      08-31-2010, 02:43 AM   #92
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lol at the term purists. Short of them driving an Exige, Ariel Atom, or a Noble, they're not purists. They still want some creature comfort in their cars.

Funny how internet forums are. The E46 was deemed a porker when it came out, yet all of the sudden it's the "best" M according to some. Now the E9X, which too was cited for being a porker, is being touted as the last "real" M3. Seriously?

The bottom line with today's M3 buyer is that they are after a car that's a jack of all trades. One that's fast and agile like cars costing almost twice as much, while being comfortable to drive daily, with room for 4 adults and decent cargo space. I can assure if BMW keeps that formula alive with the next gen, it'll still be as popular and lusted after as it is today.

Take comfort in the fact that a team of highly skilled and very dedicated engineers are ensuring that your next M3 will be a world class car, much like every previous generation was at the time it was released.

Give the engineers a break. They've delivered time and time again. Have some faith in them.
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      08-31-2010, 02:44 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benmoooon View Post
So much fail in this thread.
How do you know the new f30 m3 will not have that "feel" and awesome driving experience? Have you gone into the future and driven one?

What you are saying has been said about each generation of m3 after the e30.

When the e36 m3 came out, people said it would deviate from the m3 because they added 2 cylinders to the engine.

When the e9x m3 came out, people said how they changed from a i6 to a v8 and much of a pig the m3 became.
Hardy fail I think--differing opinions, yes, fail no.

No, what I'm saying that faster isn't always = more fun. And if they don't address the weight issue there's only so much fun you can have due to the physics involved if light, nimble, and agile is your thing.

And I didn't say it won't be more fun either-unless IMO they don't address weight.

Lets see, Porsche just cut 400 PBS from the Cayenne. Yes, it's still heavy but the driving experience is vastly improved. Engine aside, if the weight issue isn't addressed I can't see it being "better". But it's all about how to define better, and I think we can all differ on that point as it's subjective.

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      08-31-2010, 03:22 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benmoooon View Post
So much fail in this thread.
How do you know the new f30 m3 will not have that "feel" and awesome driving experience? Have you gone into the future and driven one?
because it will be the size and weight of an e39 m5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benmoooon View Post
What you are saying has been said about each generation of m3 after the e30.

When the e36 m3 came out, people said it would deviate from the m3 because they added 2 cylinders to the engine.

When the e9x m3 came out, people said how they changed from a i6 to a v8 and much of a pig the m3 became.
They were right. Im not saying each individual generation isn't good, because they are all fantastic... but they all feel completely different. It's almost difficult to visualize the e46 or e9x coming from the e30 they are so different.
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      08-31-2010, 03:44 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piloto View Post
lol at the term purists. Short of them driving an Exige, Ariel Atom, or a Noble, they're not purists. They still want some creature comfort in their cars.
What creature comfort does Ariel atom have?
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      08-31-2010, 06:18 AM   #96
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If the fifth generation M3 deos in fact receive a non-normally aspirated motor, nothing traditionally "sacred" will remain of the venerable M Division.

I don't know about each of you, but my appreciation of M products has always been about two aspects of their cars; model specific motor and driving experience. With what appears to be a breaking with tradition where motors are the subject, I'm left wondering what will remain to peak my continued interest in the marque.

An aside: On the prospects of weight reduction of the F30 M3 relative to the E92 M3... I'm skeptical that the next generation will weigh less. The 1M, IMO, will be the model that BMW will logically attempt to sell the weight-conscious M car shopper. An turbo, automatic, just as heavy or heavier, faster, more powerful, more fuel efficient, more expensive, more technologically advanced F30 M3 will be looking for a good home, but the first two items -- turbo, AT -- are absolute dealbreakers for this M enthusiast.
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      08-31-2010, 06:36 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duk View Post
what is even WORSE is that the next m3 will likely just have a DCT tranny, no 6MT
Is this pure speculation as well, or has some reliable source actually indicated this? That really would be disappointing.....
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      08-31-2010, 06:42 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eau Rouge View Post
If the fifth generation M3 deos in fact receive a non-normally aspirated motor, nothing traditionally "sacred" will remain of the venerable M Division.

I don't know about each of you, but my appreciation of M products has always been about two aspects of their cars; model specific motor and driving experience. With what appears to be a breaking with tradition where motors are the subject, I'm left wondering what will remain to peak my continued interest in the marque.

An aside: On the prospects of weight reduction of the F30 M3 relative to the E92 M3... I'm skeptical that the next generation will weigh less. The 1M, IMO, will be the model that BMW will logically attempt to sell the weight-conscious M car shopper. An turbo, automatic, just as heavy or heavier, faster, more powerful, more fuel efficient, more expensive, more technologically advanced F30 M3 will be looking for a good home, but the first two items -- turbo, AT -- are absolute dealbreakers for this M enthusiast.
I agree, it was really amazing to see the kind of NA engines the ///M division was putting in their cars and what they could get out of them, but you can't put the blame entirely on ///M, they are kind of being forced in this direction because of new government emissions restrictions. I think its time we form a new political party, the ///M party, to help fix this

But I am confident in ///M that they will come up with something that will amaze us again. Maybe this will be the thing that forces them to shed some of that extra weight to keep them competitive. I look forward to seeing what the next ///M cars will be able to do.
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      08-31-2010, 07:01 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Bimmer View Post
BMW better not start whoring out their engines like AMG does. I would be sad.

With that said, im sure the M division wont disappoint us. I will wait to see what they come up with before making judgment.
I think they already do, just not to the degree that MB does. McLaren??
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      08-31-2010, 07:22 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor J View Post
I6 would make more sense -- way stronger block for FI
What are you talking about?? How often do you see block failure that's not casting related? Regardless of BMW's success with the I6, the V is a very good design for many reasons, especially when it comes to high-performance, so I wouldnt be surprised if they did create it.
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      08-31-2010, 07:23 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobe View Post
I think there is little doubt that the next gen engine will have at least 450hp and probably 380lbs or torque, that's not really the concern. I think most people believe this V8 is a one of a kind in the V8 world, and it is. It had a lot of potential of growth into the 4.4V and so on. It's a bit sad to see this first gen motor go out early when it had so much potential. Look what Ford did with their 4.6L, turning out the wicked 5.0.
Yes.

Quote:
Instead of that uniquness, the sound, and the amazing rev limits, the fear is that the next gen will be cookie cutter by comparison. So some of us have reservations, but your right, it will be a faster M3.
It will most certainly be a better performer in every way. But the M3 will have lost what is IMHO the most significant thing that made it unique (mostly - save for the very limited-production-by-comparison RS4/RS5) among its competitors - the high revving V8.
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      08-31-2010, 07:28 AM   #102
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All I can say is I hope the HPFP gets figured out 'cause there will be a mass defection when dozens of cars all start failing and cars start sitting at the dealer dead.

I dont know how an I6 turbo car is gonna last on the track, there are tons of track junkies who are gonna flog this car. Getting a bigger oil cooler just is not gonna cut it

GL BMW, I pray you get it right.

The M3 sits alone as a vehicle that is used quite differently than all of the other M cars
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      08-31-2010, 07:34 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eau Rouge View Post
If the fifth generation M3 deos in fact receive a non-normally aspirated motor, nothing traditionally "sacred" will remain of the venerable M Division.

I don't know about each of you, but my appreciation of M products has always been about two aspects of their cars; model specific motor and driving experience. With what appears to be a breaking with tradition where motors are the subject, I'm left wondering what will remain to peak my continued interest in the marque.

An aside: On the prospects of weight reduction of the F30 M3 relative to the E92 M3... I'm skeptical that the next generation will weigh less. The 1M, IMO, will be the model that BMW will logically attempt to sell the weight-conscious M car shopper. An turbo, automatic, just as heavy or heavier, faster, more powerful, more fuel efficient, more expensive, more technologically advanced F30 M3 will be looking for a good home, but the first two items -- turbo, AT -- are absolute dealbreakers for this M enthusiast.

The "sacred" aspect of the M division is being fast and good handling. I don't see how a turbo is blasphemy
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      08-31-2010, 08:11 AM   #104
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I am very interested in seeing how these turbo M engines hold up on the track. Right now I am a little distrustful of BMW's turbo engines + repeated hot laps. People who buy M cars want the ability to beat the car up at a track (most don't but many like knowing they have that option).

However, BMW M division knows this and I suspect a large portion of their R&D has gone into refining these turbo M engines to handle repeated hard laps. I also suspect they are working very, very hard to balance the low-end torque with upper end power delivery as again, can't be having the engine fall on it's face when at the track.

Recap, 2 things BMW M division WILL do:
1: Make the turbo engine reliable under heavy and repeated use
2: Balance the engine to perform more like an NA engine but with the added benefits of turbo

Myself, I'm not buying anything with a M turbo engine until I have seen these 2 points resolved.

I also suspect the M division will release limited production runs of special M cars that have the V8 in them.
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      08-31-2010, 08:16 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nautik View Post
I also suspect the M division will release limited production runs of special M cars that have the V8 in them.
Agree, for racing homolongation rules if nothing else. However, they will be offered at the low, low price of 1 beeeliiion dollars. And there will be about 17 made.
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      08-31-2010, 08:19 AM   #106
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I would go in another angle with the FI vs NA engine debate for the next M3. I would prefer that BMW keep an NA option in the M line-up, while offering FI in other models. In other words, if the 1M will be FI why not keep the M3 NA, so people have a choice?

I look at Porsche. The reason the 911 does so well, it offers that choice to the owner. If they want NA, they can get the 911, 911s or GT3. If they want FI, they can do the Turbo or GT2.

I don't know why BMW can't keep the NA going for people who obviously would appreciate and buy NA M's, and keep models like the 1M for the peeps who like FI. Why can't we have a choice is my thinking here.

BTW - After having a couple of FI cars (ie Audi B4 S4, RS6 and the 335i e92), I really enjoy driving the NA M3. Not sure I want to go back to FI.
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      08-31-2010, 08:21 AM   #107
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Ummm, the OP was kind of all over the place. Is it true that the next M3 will share alot of parts with the 1M? Please tell me that wasn't the jist...
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      08-31-2010, 08:45 AM   #108
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This sucks! i LOVE the way m3 v8 sounds now,I kind of hate the way my 135 sounds now cause of the turbos there no real beast like sound more of a air like sound lol, I was planing on getting the next gen M3 but now i guess I'm getting the one of last year of E90S, but not sure cause all the new stuff the gen is going to have its will be a HARD choice unless the car sounds good! cause IMO u can't really tell u have a turbo on the N54 its crazy! so what I'm really worried about in this order is first looks then sound then Power and technology!
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      08-31-2010, 09:05 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rems09135i View Post
This sucks! i LOVE the way m3 v8 sounds now,I kind of hate the way my 135 sounds now cause of the turbos there no real beast like sound more of a air like sound lol, I was planing on getting the next gen M3 but now i guess I'm getting the one of last year of E90S, but not sure cause all the stuff the gen is going to have its will be a HARD choice unless the car sounds good! cause IMO u can't really tell u have a turbo on the N54 its crazy! so what I'm really worried about in this order is first looks then sound then technology!
If I were you, I'd worry most about proof reading

But seriously, who gives a rats ass about sound if the car is an ass kicker (which it will probably be)

Also, the "purists" make no sense to me. When Porsche jumped into the turbo ring, do you think the 911 people scowled at the Turbo folks because they betrayed their N/A roots? Maybe for a week until they saw the Turbos Ugly-Slap everything else on the road. Now when you see an N/A Carerra, you almost assume that the guy couldnt afford a Turbo, not that he's driving it because he's a purist.

Fortunately, BMW will only have one F30 M3 (with the turbo). You wont have to choose like the Porsche people and spend a bundle more.

I'm sure it will be good.
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      08-31-2010, 09:08 AM   #110
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Damn Strait!
And avoid any HPFP worries
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