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      08-30-2010, 07:25 PM   #45
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      08-30-2010, 07:25 PM   #46
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S54 in a 1er??? that was an option???

Do want. Love that engine.
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      08-30-2010, 07:47 PM   #47
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If you could somehow manage current M3 horsepower levels with N55 torque delivery, I think you will have a winner. Let's see if that is how this turns out.
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      08-30-2010, 07:54 PM   #48
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Nah, current M3 has better torque delivery. More torque at wheels over a wider range due to gearing and high revs. I'd prefer they tweak the N55 to have the range of the M3. That would require a turbo that works well over 5500rpm instead of falling over like the current one, though.

It absolutely kills me that people out there prefer to have a car pull hard at 1500rpm with only a 4k torque band, as opposed to gaining usable torque between 5500-8400rpm and having a 5.4k torque band. Some people just don't understand sportscars, I guess.

Current N5x upper-stage mods can manage M3 horsepower levels, but they won't last long. That's why I'm hoping they increase the displacement, not sure I'd want to buy a 450hp, 3.0l engine that has a giant turbo and the PSI cranked to hell.

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      08-30-2010, 08:20 PM   #49
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F30 M3? Does that mean the M3 sedan is coming? There were rumor's that BMW would nix the M3 sedan because of it's slow sales!

I don't care about the engine. I'm just glad to hear that the M3 sedan variant will be available.
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      08-30-2010, 08:20 PM   #50
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I never get all of the pessimism and similarly the lack of some faith in BMW M. You can argue that there shouldn't be a 1M and X6M and that M shouldn't use turbos all day long. Nonetheless each M3 (and M5) has been a substantially better car than the prior one. Sure the weight gain has been an issue, year upon year, but even despite that the performance envelope has widened in all metrics with each generation. The new car will, guaranteed, be faster in a drag and around a track than the current model. Mark my words. It simply MUST be. As such it will very likely have more peak power. It may even have less weight. Either way the power to weight ratio is what really matters and that WILL be improved. It certainly will have better fuel efficiency as well (not that this is too important to many of us...). The new car probably will not be able to fully maintain its existing redline and the stellar shape and width of its torque curve. I'd also guarantee it will have less turbo lag than the 335i which is pretty good already in that regard. However, you can be that the development folks will both innovate and do their best to make sure the car feels like a car worthy of the M3 badge. You can call me a fanboy as you like, it is more simply just an observation and noting that history repeats itself.

I certainly agree that a derivative engine for the car is breaking with an admirable tradition but ultimately that too will not "ruin" the engine. It will just make it a bit less special.

Here is some interesting details on the N55 explaining how it has less lag and a broader power band than the N54. Link.

Here is how the N55 sounds in a 135i with the BMW Performance exhaust. Link. Not bad!
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      08-30-2010, 08:27 PM   #51
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No one knows yet whether there will be an F30 M3. Rumors say no. The admin really just meant "F3x", not F30. SCOTT26 did not say F30, just "the next M3".

Also, note that SCOTT has mentioned the possibility of an F3x Gran Coupe in the past, including an M version.

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F30 M3? Does that mean the M3 sedan is coming? There were rumor's that BMW would nix the M3 sedan because of it's slow sales!

I don't care about the engine. I'm just glad to hear that the M3 sedan variant will be available.
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      08-30-2010, 08:48 PM   #52
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There are pretty clear facts here to note:

* There was no way BMW would introduce a brand new engine - the N55 - just for it to be in production for a year, it was obvious it would make it to F3X. This is their way of ensuring an engine that had its share of issues for a few years with the fuel pumps was fixed for good for the next body style. Now, that engine being the base for the next M3's engine is debatable, but it was possible that something similar would be used.

* There is absolutely no way that the new M3 will be worse than the current one. No matter how much you speculate and no matter how much you don't like the I6 and the turbo ///M engine, it will be better than the current one. It will have more torque, more HP, more room, better technology, better navigation, better suspension, better looks, and so on. This was the case in late 90s, it was the case 5 years ago, and it is going to be case in 2 years. Look at the M3 forums in 2005-2006, look how everyone says "I will never give up my M3, the new one is so big and heavy and yuck!" and guess what, most of those did give up their M3s or learned to accept the truth, which was the E9X ///M ruled and was a ton better than the old M3.

* All the ///M owners here spent a lot of money on their cars. Be it a lease or finance, you have emotionally bonded with your car and obviously its in the nature of the human brain and psychology what you are doing. Refusing and not admitting the harsh reality You can love your "Naturally Aspirated" engine and hate the turbo, but we will come back to this forum in 2014 and you will be picking up dust behind the 480 hp 420 torque M3 with its turbo engine - sorry, that's how it is. Not to mention, by the time the second M3 production starts, the F3X will probably have its interior, including the iDrive completely redesigned as it was the case for the current M3 in 2009.

These are cars you are talking about. They are not houses or property. They will get old, they will be outdated, new ones will come, and it will always be the case that the new ones will be better. Please can you ignore these rumors and actually enjoy your cars while you can!
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      08-30-2010, 08:56 PM   #53
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i doubt //M will disappoint us.
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      08-30-2010, 08:59 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deniz1210 View Post
There are pretty clear facts here to note:

* There was no way BMW would introduce a brand new engine - the N55 - just for it to be in production for a year, it was obvious it would make it to F3X. This is their way of ensuring an engine that had its share of issues for a few years with the fuel pumps was fixed for good for the next body style. Now, that engine being the base for the next M3's engine is debatable, but it was possible that something similar would be used.

* There is absolutely no way that the new M3 will be worse than the current one. No matter how much you speculate and no matter how much you don't like the I6 and the turbo ///M engine, it will be better than the current one. It will have more torque, more HP, more room, better technology, better navigation, better suspension, better looks, and so on. This was the case in late 90s, it was the case 5 years ago, and it is going to be case in 2 years. Look at the M3 forums in 2005-2006, look how everyone says "I will never give up my M3, the new one is so big and heavy and yuck!" and guess what, most of those did give up their M3s or learned to accept the truth, which was the E9X ///M ruled and was a ton better than the old M3.

* All the ///M owners here spent a lot of money on their cars. Be it a lease or finance, you have emotionally bonded with your car and obviously its in the nature of the human brain and psychology what you are doing. Refusing and not admitting the harsh reality You can love your "Naturally Aspirated" engine and hate the turbo, but we will come back to this forum in 2014 and you will be picking up dust behind the 480 hp 420 torque M3 with its turbo engine - sorry, that's how it is. Not to mention, by the time the second M3 production starts, the F3X will probably have its interior, including the iDrive completely redesigned as it was the case for the current M3 in 2009.

These are cars you are talking about. They are not houses or property. They will get old, they will be outdated, new ones will come, and it will always be the case that the new ones will be better. Please can you ignore these rumors and actually enjoy your cars while you can!
I think there is little doubt that the next gen engine will have at least 450hp and probably 380lbs or torque, that's not really the concern. I think most people believe this V8 is a one of a kind in the V8 world, and it is. It had a lot of potential of growth into the 4.4V and so on. It's a bit sad to see this first gen motor go out early when it had so much potential. Look what Ford did with their 4.6L, turning out the wicked 5.0. Instead of that uniquness, the sound, and the amazing rev limits, the fear is that the next gen will be cookie cutter by comparison. So some of us have reservations, but your right, it will be a faster M3.
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      08-30-2010, 09:39 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deniz1210 View Post
There are pretty clear facts here to note:

* There was no way BMW would introduce a brand new engine - the N55 - just for it to be in production for a year, it was obvious it would make it to F3X. This is their way of ensuring an engine that had its share of issues for a few years with the fuel pumps was fixed for good for the next body style. Now, that engine being the base for the next M3's engine is debatable, but it was possible that something similar would be used.

* There is absolutely no way that the new M3 will be worse than the current one. No matter how much you speculate and no matter how much you don't like the I6 and the turbo ///M engine, it will be better than the current one. It will have more torque, more HP, more room, better technology, better navigation, better suspension, better looks, and so on. This was the case in late 90s, it was the case 5 years ago, and it is going to be case in 2 years. Look at the M3 forums in 2005-2006, look how everyone says "I will never give up my M3, the new one is so big and heavy and yuck!" and guess what, most of those did give up their M3s or learned to accept the truth, which was the E9X ///M ruled and was a ton better than the old M3.

* All the ///M owners here spent a lot of money on their cars. Be it a lease or finance, you have emotionally bonded with your car and obviously its in the nature of the human brain and psychology what you are doing. Refusing and not admitting the harsh reality You can love your "Naturally Aspirated" engine and hate the turbo, but we will come back to this forum in 2014 and you will be picking up dust behind the 480 hp 420 torque M3 with its turbo engine - sorry, that's how it is. Not to mention, by the time the second M3 production starts, the F3X will probably have its interior, including the iDrive completely redesigned as it was the case for the current M3 in 2009.

These are cars you are talking about. They are not houses or property. They will get old, they will be outdated, new ones will come, and it will always be the case that the new ones will be better. Please can you ignore these rumors and actually enjoy your cars while you can!

Visionary.
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      08-30-2010, 09:39 PM   #56
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Faster or not no care for that car.
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Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.
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      08-30-2010, 09:40 PM   #57
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next M engine better be bigger than 3.0 liters and high redline than 7k or no buy
Don't worry bmw doesn't need you to buy them, most other people buy it just because its an M3

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Originally Posted by eatrach73 View Post
time will tell. But to those hardcore BMW "enthusiasts" time is against us. I remember distinctly having a conversation with a buddy of mine about turbos. I assumed then, which was about 6 years ago, that most manufacturers will begin using turbos. He disagreed. Sure enough, more and more manufacturers are stepping away from NA engines and using turbos. Guess I was right.
To hardcore BMW "enthusiasts", the last great M3 was the E30 M3 with a 4 cylinder. To them E9x M3's are overweight pigs with v8s.


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i doubt //M will disappoint us.
+1

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my thoughts are that anyone who wants an M3 should get an E9x now.
People said similar things when E46 M3 was still current and E9x M3's were soon to be produced.
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      08-30-2010, 09:44 PM   #58
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there's no replacement for displacement
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      08-30-2010, 09:58 PM   #59
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Meh I'm out
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      08-30-2010, 10:05 PM   #60
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my thoughts are that anyone who wants an M3 should get an E9x now.
For sure the value of a current E9X M3 will go up. I wonder if they will charge the gas guzzler tax of $1300 for the new inline 6 version.
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      08-30-2010, 10:08 PM   #61
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i actually like the inline-6 idea.

//M is taking a stab at making huge numbers with an i-6; reason being, the engine is guaranteed to be more powerful than its 420hp predecessor.

i can see this engine follow the footsteps of the RB26 and 2jz, which, in my opinion, is very exciting.
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      08-30-2010, 10:10 PM   #62
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Well at least we can all come to the conclusion that if you want to be satisfied with another performance BMW, you are going to have to get an m5, not a new m3
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      08-30-2010, 10:22 PM   #63
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give it some time!!!!!!
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      08-30-2010, 10:31 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benmoooon View Post
Don't worry bmw doesn't need you to buy them, most other people buy it just because its an M3


To hardcore BMW "enthusiasts", the last great M3 was the E30 M3 with a 4 cylinder. To them E9x M3's are overweight pigs with v8s.



+1



People said similar things when E46 M3 was still current and E9x M3's were soon to be produced.

I guess I am the only one that is looking forward to the F2x 1 Series M coupe with the Turbo 4 cylinder. I expect to see this version be much lighter than the current one and have the same feeling as the E30 M3. I will wait for that one to come out since BWM will be able to take their time in developing it instead of bolting M3 parts onto the 135 and revising the engine.
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      08-30-2010, 10:34 PM   #65
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I really hate that I have this feeling about an I6 turbo. Now that the CTS-V has entered the fray with a powerful V8, and looks like Lincoln is going to enter the fray in a couple years with a 5.0L supercharged, might look bleak for me in the M3 in a few years.
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      08-30-2010, 10:45 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sor View Post

It absolutely kills me that people out there prefer to have a car pull hard at 1500rpm with only a 4k torque band, as opposed to gaining usable torque between 5500-8400rpm and having a 5.4k torque band. Some people just don't understand sportscars, I guess.

Current N5x upper-stage mods can manage M3 horsepower levels, but they won't last long. That's why I'm hoping they increase the displacement, not sure I'd want to buy a 450hp, 3.0l engine that has a giant turbo and the PSI cranked to hell.
The current N55 doesn't really 'pull hard' at 1500. The meat of the powerband starts a bit later. And FWIW, lots of midrange torque = faster corner exiting when it comes to driving aggressively.

On top of that, the details of what else will be done to it remain to be seen. One can certainly assume that the HP rating is going to trump the current V-8.
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