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      08-28-2010, 06:38 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HebrewhaM3r View Post
The 911 is a rear-engined vehicle not a mid engine like a Boxster,there was a 911 vs M3 comparo where the M3 took 1st place.

Almost every reputable car mag has a 911 vs Corvette (front engine)comparo...
very true.
but the reason MT made the comparo.., was because the cars had very similar specs.
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      08-28-2010, 07:19 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeKiller View Post
++1
very well said, theres Brand enthusiast and car enthusiast.
currently there no mach for the M3 as a whole package, on the performance side the mustang is currently the most matched rival. they basically have identical specs.

for the most part this forum change my view of BMW drivers, i very impressed with this forum community.
I couldn't agree more with the part I put in bold. As a car enthusiast I applaud Ford's efforts, and I wouldn't turn up my nose at a Mustang or 'Vette or any car for that matter than steps up to the performance plate and delivers the goods.

Which is why, for example, I've lost respect for Honda and Acura. In the mid-late 90s they were really on their game--look at the lame and outdated stuff they put out these days. Only the Civic SI has anything going for it, and it doesn't do much more than my 15 year old Integra GSR can't do--the tech is essentially the same.

Ford, on the other hand, has improved build quality, delivered on performance, and really "gets" the enthusiast crowd. Just the way they designed the header on the 'Stang GT (they spent a lot of time optimizing and tuning them, because "that's what folks usually go for aftermarket, so we saved them the trouble and put the best possible in there stock"). It delivers on the performance goods. The BOSS LS just takes it another level.

That's what matters--not whether the M3 has "better interior" or "IRS". Sure, it does, but we should expect as much given the price differential--but you can't deny that either car delivers the performance goods other issues aside.

Mind you, I love the two BMW's we have, but I wouldn't mind a '500, GT, or BOSS in the garage along with them.

And I was very pleasantly surprised by the Grand Sport I drove. Interior was, meh, but the gearbox, clutch, and brakes and feel were surprisingly solid. Tough car too, it had been whipped all day by countless folks at a mini-autoX course and the clutch was solid, brakes were solid, which was incredible given the beating that poor car was taking. A testament to toughness in fact. I really felt sorry for that car (people who can't drive stick shouldn't learn at a test drive event with a high powered car.) I'd take that gearbox/clutch over the M3's or Z4M's any day. Just solid stuff.

Even the Caddy is damn good (can't stand the looks, but it delivers on performance for what it is).

Different cars for different itches and all have pros and cons. But again, if a company steps up and delivers in the performance division I respect that.

It's about being a car, not a brand, enthusiast. I don't automatically assume my car is "better" because it's this or that brand. Just as I don't see some guy in a 'Stang and think "I'm so much better". I hope he's a car guy like me and we can talk about that shared love of driving and our cars.

I spend a lot of time with friends who drive F-Cars, GT3s, and similar cars costing 2x or 3x more than what I drive. No "my car is better" crap in that crowd--just a shared love of driving and cars in general. And lots of fun. It's not about "which car" but about the fact we love the damn things.

I'll get down from the pulpit now.
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      08-28-2010, 07:28 PM   #179
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I think it's great that Ford is bringing the Mustang to a whole new level. Same goes for GM with the Corvette.
That said, there is no way I would cross shop a Mustang with an M3. I doubt many Aston Martin or Maserati owners cross shop their cars with an M3, even though some of the "comparisons" might be close on paper.
Just today, I was driving with my gf (NOT a car enthusiast), and saw a beautiful silver Corvette convertible. I pointed it out to her, and all she had to say about it was that it screamed mid-life crisis. While she is not into cars at all, and could care less about it's performance, she does like the understated elegance of my space gray E92.
Ford could give the new Mustang 600HP and make it corner like it's on rails, but it's going to be a long time before Ford can build the reputation that BMW has built for their cars performance, quality, and luxury.
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      08-28-2010, 09:57 PM   #180
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Active Autowerke Supercharger and the mustang will get S#*T on...
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      08-28-2010, 10:56 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsgolf2012 View Post
Active Autowerke Supercharger and the mustang will get S#*T on...
Mustangs will be able to get dealer installed bolt on Whipple superchargers (3 boost varieties, similar to the GT500) and still keep their warranty for 2 of the 3 boost options and will cost far less to buy and install. Matter of fact, with the money left over you could add in a cold air induction, ford racing exhaust, and maybe even a set of new tires to boot. It's rediculously expensive to mod an M3.
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      08-28-2010, 11:46 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
+1. Major Kudos to Ford.

However, I place value on fit and finish, cosmetics, etc.
Agree...My G/F has an 09 KR and as fast a monster as it is, handles incredibly, and the awesome engine,
its low on comfort, fit and finish. For the money I begged her to get an M6 instead, but she just couldn't stop staring at the KR. Don't get me wrong, she loves it, but when she drives my 550 or M3, deep down inside she wishes she would have gone BMW. I clearly understand that the KR is a "collector's" model, blah blah blah, but she drives it daily and couldn't care less that it's limited edition, etc. She's into the power, styling, and exclusivity of a KR as it stands out, not that it's a "collector" version, just because it's a bit different.

Good for Ford as someone found enough to write an article and compare the two.....not sure we would have seen this not so many years ago.
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      08-29-2010, 02:01 AM   #183
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The mustang just can't compete on the ride comfort and luxury side to the M3.
as car enthusiast we need to establish that, and argue on performance.
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      08-29-2010, 09:21 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawika63 View Post
Agree...My G/F has an 09 KR and as fast a monster as it is, handles incredibly, and the awesome engine,
its low on comfort, fit and finish. For the money I begged her to get an M6 instead, but she just couldn't stop staring at the KR. Don't get me wrong, she loves it, but when she drives my 550 or M3, deep down inside she wishes she would have gone BMW. I clearly understand that the KR is a "collector's" model, blah blah blah, but she drives it daily and couldn't care less that it's limited edition, etc. She's into the power, styling, and exclusivity of a KR as it stands out, not that it's a "collector" version, just because it's a bit different.

Good for Ford as someone found enough to write an article and compare the two.....not sure we would have seen this not so many years ago.
I agree,and the hood on those cars are so long it feels like you are behind the wheel of a Peterbilt.
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      08-29-2010, 10:40 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
I have said it before, and I will say it again...

I have nothing but respect for the FORD Motor Company, and I'd even work for them, if the opportunity were to present itself. That said....

I give Ford the credit deserved, and it's sort of fun to see a comparison like this regardless.

However, drive both cars 100,000 miles, and tell us the comparison then, or the value left in each car, for that matter. They are clearly very different cars, w/almost two completely different buyers.

I'd stick with the M3 pound for pound, anyday!
probably as a %, the mustang would have more left. My 335i has lost almost 50% in 2 years. My 2003 gt, I sold for 55% after 4 years.
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      08-29-2010, 01:30 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayMoWe335 View Post
I keep saying BMW needs to step up its game because $60,000 for an M3 and $50,000 for a 335iS is starting to be questionable. Not only that, but BMW seems to nickel and dime a lot on options. I'm fine with that, as long as the driveability and performance back up the premium.

I'd still rather have the M3 over the Ford, but $30k makes you think.
I agree. BMW has to remove some of the understeer in these cars. This video is prime example. The M3 has got to dial some out, there is room to do that.

The new M3 better be tuned to have the tinest bit of understeer. It also has to have 450 hp, and 400+ torque - just to be competitive these days.

These are the 2 major areas of complaint of the M3 that I keep reading about, and more importantly I feel when I get a chance to drive one.
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      08-29-2010, 02:17 PM   #187
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I think the new M3 should have the 3.8 liter I-6 out of the gt3 RS (450 hp, 317 lb-ft)
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      08-29-2010, 05:05 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsgolf2012 View Post
Active Autowerke Supercharger and the mustang will get S#*T on...

lol yea, and supercharge the mustang, and throw some e/t streets on it. the bmw will look like a fly in the mirror.

n/a vs n/a
p/a vs p/a

lrn teh rulez prior to interneting. ok?
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      08-30-2010, 12:35 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsgolf2012 View Post
Active Autowerke Supercharger and the mustang will get S#*T on...
LOL..you better take a look at this..

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...KeyField=12402

This is with just the huffer, a full exhaust system and you will be over 650hp.

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      08-31-2010, 06:56 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8dawg View Post
I think the new M3 should have the 3.8 liter I-6 out of the gt3 RS (450 hp, 317 lb-ft)
It is impressive how much power Porsche can extract out of their sixes. But it's a boxer engine, not an I-6.
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      08-31-2010, 09:18 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trahsub View Post
It is impressive how much power Porsche can extract out of their sixes. But it's a boxer engine, not an I-6.
Sorry I knew that ahahah, either way I think it would be amazing in an m3.
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      09-01-2010, 10:21 AM   #192
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I was at Mosport for the last 2 days instructing and I got to do a 25 minute session in a stock 2011 Gt except for the installation a prototype supercharger kit with over 600 bhp.

The power is great with suprisingly linear power delivery that made the power very easy to feed in on corner exit.The car felt quite floaty at 150mph at the end of the straight compared to my M which is doing about 140mph at the same point and also lacked the steering feedback that the M has.The stock brakes worked quite well for the 25 minute session which surprised me as they were still stock pads.A few $'s spent on suspension and a proper track wheel & tire package would make a huge difference for not a lot of money!Pretty impressive for half the cost of an M in Canada.


http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/

Last edited by Gearhead999s; 09-01-2010 at 10:35 AM.
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      09-03-2010, 10:04 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I was at Mosport for the last 2 days instructing and I got to do a 25 minute session in a stock 2011 Gt except for the installation a prototype supercharger kit with over 600 bhp.

The power is great with suprisingly linear power delivery that made the power very easy to feed in on corner exit.The car felt quite floaty at 150mph at the end of the straight compared to my M which is doing about 140mph at the same point and also lacked the steering feedback that the M has.The stock brakes worked quite well for the 25 minute session which surprised me as they were still stock pads.A few $'s spent on suspension and a proper track wheel & tire package would make a huge difference for not a lot of money!Pretty impressive for half the cost of an M in Canada.


http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/
Nice. Nothing like a twin screw blower to add more low-end grunt. At that HP and torque level, seems like it would be better to go with an 8-rib setup there, (that looks like 6 rib to me). I am sure the aftermarket will jump all over it in a hurry.

edit: Didn't see that it was an Eaton, which is a root-type, not a twin screw. Same sort of results, just a bit safer.
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      09-04-2010, 06:28 AM   #194
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That new Boss 302 should be something though..
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      09-07-2010, 05:07 PM   #195
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From one of my local forums-

"I noticed that the new 5.0 valve covers say "Ford Motorsport" or something on them. Instead, the valvecovers should be a big bald eagle, holding a rifle in one talon, an american flag in the other, eating apple pie, and shitting on the outline of europe."

I got a kick out of the comment.

Ive seen more and more of these around. Impressed with the performance.. not so much visually.
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      09-08-2010, 12:21 PM   #196
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Ford's on a role since the auto industry crash... I feel that was a huge wakeup call for them and they are now building much better vehicles. Us Americans should be proud of an American car company catching up to the rest of the world!

We no longer have to look outside our borders for quality and can support our country by buying American... plus, we need to support our country now more than ever!

The real comparison should be against the GT500 in which that $50,000 mustang should easily beat the M3.

I myself just traded in my 2009 E92 M3 for a 2010 Ford Raptor and love it. I still appreciate BMW for its refinement, but feel the price for the refinement and exclusivity is now too high with the performance and quality you get for much less from other company's...

Lets just say, you can get a Shelby GT500 for 50K plus a brand new street bike for the same price as a loaded M3...
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      09-08-2010, 01:25 PM   #197
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I would've liked to see a DCT M3's times compared to the 6 speed with all of those exact tests. Props to Ford I love me a Mustang !
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      09-08-2010, 01:42 PM   #198
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I doubt you will see much if any lap time differences. You take a driver like Walter Rohl who can drive the ring in his sleep has gotten the same times out of a PDK as he did on a straight manual. Than again it could all depend on the track and how much shifting is actually done, but IMHO there wouldn't be much if any difference and if there was a few seconds either way that could be attributed to a host of other conditions other than the fact if the car was a DCT or a manual.

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