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      08-23-2010, 07:03 PM   #45
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Growing up all my cars have been Mustang's, And I expect it to be true to it's Heritage. With that being Said, The E92 M3 is the Only Pony car I recognize Now. Like Everyone has said here, Great for Ford, And I agree, But they should have been Building cars Like this All along, They should have never allowed Germany to beat them at there own game, But they have, And I'm Never turning back. IMAO, If it was 5.0 to 5.0 V8's, what do you think the outcome would have been? Or 5.0 to 4.4? I am way more impressed with my 4 L than that 5 L. Go get'em S65!!!!!!!!
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      08-23-2010, 07:08 PM   #46
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Once upon a time I shat in a diaper that someone else cleaned

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I'm sure that in 35-50 years from now you'll be doing the same thing again.
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      08-23-2010, 07:13 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by jdgamble View Post
Another note here... As impressive as this mustang is out of the box, let's see how they hold up after 4 or 5 years of aggressive driving (if they even last that long). My guess is they will be a bucket-o-bolts after a few years. There was a short review of the 5.0 convertible in C&D (I think... maybe R&T) recently, and they said the cowl shake was horrendous. Not so in the E93. There is a HUGE gap in quality between these cars, and while I applaud Ford for building this car, it's silly to think it's a direct competitor. It's like the Vette vs. Ferrari comparison... On paper the Corvette competes, but there are infinite intangibles that makes the Ferrari far more desirable.

Or maybe it's just me being a snob again...
A C6 Z06 is basically a world beater, but would you rather have that or a F430? Exactly. My point is, I see what you're saying.

HOWEVER, the M3 is NOT a Ferrari and the Ferrari vs. Vette argument holds more water than the BMW vs Ford argument. BMW isn't near Ferrari's league, although there is some "it's still a Ford" argument to be had. Just not as much.

I keep saying BMW needs to step up its game because $60,000 for an M3 and $50,000 for a 335iS is starting to be questionable. Not only that, but BMW seems to nickel and dime a lot on options. I'm fine with that, as long as the driveability and performance back up the premium.

I'd still rather have the M3 over the Ford, but $30k makes you think.
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      08-23-2010, 07:16 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
I have said it before, and I will say it again...

I have nothing but respect for the FORD Motor Company, and I'd even work for them, if the opportunity were to present itself. That said....

I give Ford the credit deserved, and it's sort of fun to see a comparison like this regardless.

However, drive both cars 100,000 miles, and tell us the comparison then, or the value left in each car, for that matter. They are clearly very different cars, w/almost two completely different buyers.

I'd stick with the M3 pound for pound, anyday!
I hear ya, but...

Cost to drive an M3 100,000 miles has to cost more than driving the Ford 100,000 miles. BMW isn't necessarily known for its reliability and cheap repairs.

The Gas mileage in town is also better on the Ford.
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      08-23-2010, 07:16 PM   #49
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Did the 6MT M3 have ZCP?

Even if it did, the issue with this head-to-head is that Motortrend went all out upgrading everything on the Mustang to compete with the M3, but they didn't even consider the dual-clutch transmission for the M3. That would have given the M3 a significant advantage. This test was a tad skewed. You couldn't say it's on-par with the M3 when you don't max out performance on the M3. It's on-par with the 6MT M3, but it would fall flat on its face against a DCT M3. This is also 3 years after the M3 was released as well.

That's not to say I don't appreciate the performance Ford has put into the Mustang GT this time around. That's mind-boggelingly impressive, especially for the price. Bravo Ford!
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      08-23-2010, 07:20 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdgamble View Post
Another note here... As impressive as this mustang is out of the box, let's see how they hold up after 4 or 5 years of aggressive driving (if they even last that long). My guess is they will be a bucket-o-bolts after a few years. There was a short review of the 5.0 convertible in C&D (I think... maybe R&T) recently, and they said the cowl shake was horrendous. Not so in the E93. There is a HUGE gap in quality between these cars, and while I applaud Ford for building this car, it's silly to think it's a direct competitor. It's like the Vette vs. Ferrari comparison... On paper the Corvette competes, but there are infinite intangibles that makes the Ferrari far more desirable.

Or maybe it's just me being a snob again...
I don't think it's you being a snob at all. You make some very valid points. I think this car is very impressive but it is nowhere near the OVERALL car the M3 is. Yes, it's peformance is right there with the M3 but everything else (fit/finish, build quality, options, etc.) is not really close at all.
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      08-23-2010, 07:27 PM   #51
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i think u r right

off-topic question ... : PS2's are much better than ContiSport3 in terms or grip ? and durability?
I've never seen a good comparison between the 2 brands. But the Conti SC3's are cheaper in price and they have a longer treadwear rating, so many folks just assume the Contis don't perform as well as the PS2's.
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      08-23-2010, 07:30 PM   #52
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In the BMW's defense, it is an old design...going on 6 years now.
The Mustang platform is even older, and a solid axle at that. Ford has just done a better job of tweaking to make an old platform reach it's max level of performance.
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      08-23-2010, 07:40 PM   #53
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What I would have found more intriguing would have been if motor trend put the M3 up against the GT 500. A fully loaded GT 500 on the ford web page is 55,300. That gives you 550hp and 510 or torque. It seems that MT put the GT vs the M3 because of the engine numbers but if an M3 owner was ever to consider a ford, I think it would more likely be the GT 500. The test would have been a lot more interesting. That car is a beast
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      08-23-2010, 07:48 PM   #54
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This is insane. A mustang is only a tenth of a second slower than an M3 ON A TRACK?!?!

A BIG Congrats to the Mustang and to Ford guys. What an achievement.

Ford stepped their game way up and BMW took it too easy. Hope the new M3 really raises the bar. If not, the Z06 or GTR will do the trick. I'm trying to hold of on a P car as much as possible
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      08-23-2010, 07:55 PM   #55
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The new mustang is a great looking car too. Love those taillights when they are changing lanes. This is why Ford will survive the bad economy - a successful flagship model (and image).
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      08-23-2010, 08:01 PM   #56
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I've already seen a couple on the streets, never have I thought Mustangs could look so nice, and now they've got the performance to back it up too
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      08-23-2010, 08:04 PM   #57
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I'd love to see a similar comparison between the 2011 GT500 and M3.... that would be no contest. But the GT500 is still less money.
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      08-23-2010, 08:10 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
+1. Major Kudos to Ford.

However, I place value on fit and finish, cosmetics, etc.
+1 American cars need a face lift! I would be in a US car in a heart beat if the car had some cosmetics. Both interior and exterior! Too boxy and plain.
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      08-23-2010, 09:23 PM   #59
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Congrats to the Ford guys. The new Mustang GT is a beast. Of course, subjectively, I love the look and feel of the M3 much more. It feels more expensive because it is.......by alot. I could buy a fully equipped Mustang GT plus a really nice boat for the price of one M3. But I think I'd still rather have the M3.

On a side note, I sat in the new Mustang a couple weeks ago and let me tell you, it looks fantastic on the inside. Not M3 standards, but it blows the holy hell out of the Camaro and Challenger.....
Not a real big accomplishment to be better than the Chev or Dodge. Still not anywhere near as good an interior of any of the luxury marques...even the BMW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Design1stCode2nd View Post
Alan Mulally has done a good job with Ford and not just with the new Mustang. Still it's a luxury car versus a non luxury car. You can always find a car that is cheaper and faster but there are bound to be tradeoffs. In the end it's about what makes you happy when you are behind the wheel.

I like the Boss 302 but I need a sedan so the M3 is the most likely car for me. I'd prefer AWD but as of now the best option is a M3 sedan with snows (and chains if need be).

That is unless the Panamera Turbo drops like a brick in the next couple of years.
+1

And I agree with you on the P car.

Quote:
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I was happy my M3 came with PS2's instead of the Contis, but not because of the grip,but because my cousins and brothers bimmers keep getting their Contis replaced because of bubbling on the side walls. And I also have PS2's on my Z06. love them
+1

The PS2's are brilliant...can't wait to see what the 3's are all about.

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Originally Posted by DefBringer View Post
Anyone knocking the Ford interior vs. BMW interior really should take a look at the quality of the interior in the '11 Mustang. Obviously not up to German standards but far, far better than a snob like me would ever dream of seeing in a Mustang.
Not up to any luxury interior, but an apples to oranges comparison nonetheless. And more importantly, not what the typical Mustang buyer cares about anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piloto View Post
So a couple of weeks ago I had a rental Mustang 5.0 (yes, the 5.0 with 412 hp, fronm National in Montreal). It was an autotragic and did not have the Track package, and was riding on all-seasons. The engine+gearing actually feels very similar to the M3 drivetrain. It's linear in its power delivery. Despite the solid axle, it rode relatively well.

However, the car didn't do anything for me. I wasn't drawn to it. I'm absolutely certain I'd have had a very different experience in a 6MT car, but I don't know, I was a bit let down by the Mustang's overall experience. However, when you factor in the price, it's a great deal. I don't think you can go wrong with it. I own a few shares of Ford, so this car doing well is in my best interest.
I had one for 3 weeks a couple of months ago and fully agree with you.
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      08-23-2010, 09:24 PM   #60
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As they say in football... "That's why you play the games". I am not suprised here. Ford has been smart and getting smarter about alot of things, (how much of my tax dollars paid for the GM bailout?). They led the way with the retro-lution in the American automotive world, (anyone think the Camero would look like that if the Mustang hadn't been so popular?). Didn't even Top Gear name them the world's best automaker? (for those who dont know, Ford makes cars everywhere).

I am by no means a Ford nut-hugger. I think they have done two things very well over the years; the Mustang and the F-150 (that's a truck for those that don't know). The M3 won... by less than a tenth... on a road track... and it is $26k more expensive... that is one very expensive tenth of a second. For those that want some mods to the M3, think about it for a second... the Mustang aftermarket is probably the most robust aftermarket in autosports...

I love my M3, but you bet your bippie that I will be seriously considering the 2014 50th anniversary Mustang...

Quote:
Originally Posted by foosh View Post
The Mustang platform is even older, and a solid axle at that. Ford has just done a better job of tweaking to make an old platform reach it's max level of performance.
The Mustang platform (S197) started in 2005... so it is 6 years old for the 2011 model year.

[/b]
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+1 American cars need a face lift! I would be in a US car in a heart beat if the car had some cosmetics. Both interior and exterior! Too boxy and plain.
Alot of people think that BMW (and Audi) look too plain; like gumdrops or jelly beans. No personality.
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      08-23-2010, 09:33 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by majin ssj eric View Post
Congrats to the Ford guys. The new Mustang GT is a beast. Of course, subjectively, I love the look and feel of the M3 much more. It feels more expensive because it is.......by alot. I could buy a fully equipped Mustang GT plus a really nice boat for the price of one M3. But I think I'd still rather have the M3.

On a side note, I sat in the new Mustang a couple weeks ago and let me tell you, it looks fantastic on the inside. Not M3 standards, but it blows the holy hell out of the Camaro and Challenger.....
okay so you can get fully loaded gt for prob 40 and a fully loaded m3 for about 75....please tell me what "really nice boat" you can buy with 25g?
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      08-23-2010, 09:57 PM   #62
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Remember when the M3 beat the Porsche 911 Turbo in Car and Driver's BMW M3 vs. Nissan GT-R vs. Porsche 911 Turbo comparo? (
) Wow, I bet some 911 Turbo owners were thinking, "WTF??"

And why did they not put the new Mustang against the new CTS-V and the new EDIT: RS5 that the M3 recently came out on top of? Because the M3 is still the benchmark, albeit the Cadillac and Audi are superb cars. I imagine you could make the same argument against the CTS-V and EDIT: RS5 - that they're really overpriced compared to a Mustang. It wouldn't be just the BMW. But it's always the benchmark that gets targeted.

No question the new Mustang is amazing and great bang for the buck. And I hope this kind of publicity puts pressure on BMW to up their game. But it's apple to oranges to me.
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Last edited by JulieDriving; 08-23-2010 at 10:13 PM. Reason: Changed RS4 for RS5
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      08-23-2010, 10:00 PM   #63
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Remember when the M3 beat the Porsche 911 Turbo in Car and Driver's BMW M3 vs. Nissan GT-R vs. Porsche 911 Turbo comparo? (
) Wow, I bet some 911 Turbo owners were thinking, "WTF??"

And why did they not put the new Mustang against the new CTS-V and the new RS4 that the M3 recently came out on top of? Because the M3 is still the benchmark, albeit the Cadillac and Audi are superb cars. I imagine you could make the same argument against the CTS-V and RS4 - that they're really overpriced compared to a Mustang. It wouldn't be just the BMW. But it's always the benchmark that gets targeted.

No question the new Mustang is amazing and great bang for the buck. And I hope this kind of publicity puts pressure on BMW to up their game. But it's apple to oranges to me.
The RS4 hasn't been new since '07.
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      08-23-2010, 10:08 PM   #64
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Motortrend? I've always seen them as a second class mag (with a domestic car bias) as compared to C&D and R&T. That said, the new Mustang looks great, and the interior is much better than the first generation of 1967 Mustang copies. Sounds like it's a great car for the money.

The Mustangs still have solid rear axles, right? I just wonder how they compare to our cars on the everyday roads that we all drive on?
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      08-23-2010, 10:11 PM   #65
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The RS4 hasn't been new since '07.
Oops, thanks for spotting the typo. It's RS5.

(This comparo: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413025)
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Last edited by JulieDriving; 08-23-2010 at 10:14 PM. Reason: Added comparo link
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      08-23-2010, 10:33 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by JulieDriving View Post
Remember when the M3 beat the Porsche 911 Turbo in Car and Driver's BMW M3 vs. Nissan GT-R vs. Porsche 911 Turbo comparo? (
) Wow, I bet some 911 Turbo owners were thinking, "WTF??"

And why did they not put the new Mustang against the new CTS-V and the new EDIT: RS5 that the M3 recently came out on top of? Because the M3 is still the benchmark, albeit the Cadillac and Audi are superb cars. I imagine you could make the same argument against the CTS-V and EDIT: RS5 - that they're really overpriced compared to a Mustang. It wouldn't be just the BMW. But it's always the benchmark that gets targeted.

No question the new Mustang is amazing and great bang for the buck. And I hope this kind of publicity puts pressure on BMW to up their game. But it's apple to oranges to me.
Why didn't they compare the 2011 GT500 against the M3? That would turn really ugly for the M3 I have a feeling........140 more HP, better suspension R compound tires, etc.
Ford did a great thing with this new Mustang and it is wonderful it is even mentioned in the same breath as the M3.

The M3 is a fantastic car and has been for many years and will likely be for the foreseeable future!!
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