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      08-18-2010, 05:11 PM   #23
richardbb85
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wtf, how is your car 69g?
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      08-18-2010, 06:07 PM   #24
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The reason they needed all that money down has nothing to with your credit is my bet. You traded in a 09' 335 that you were buried in, so you needed $13k down to cover the negative equity in that car. BMW wouldn't allow/buy the lease at the price they would have had to show as the selling price if they had to show the negative equity. It would have put you way over MSRP and BMW wont allow that on a lease. On a purchase they would allow it if you have great credit. I sold cars for a long time and this is super common. At least you did it with a lease so at the end you are no longer buried, but you need to keep it until the end. If you had bought the car instead of leasing and had all that negative equity added in you would be buried for the life of the loan. This is just my opinion for what it is worth, but I am guessing this is what happened based off of some of the deals I have seen done and heard about.
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      08-18-2010, 06:16 PM   #25
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^ ding! Mystery is solved!

Dealer should have explained this to you. You basically had to pay 13k to get out of your 335i lease early. Ouchie.

In that case, your lease deal alone on the M3 doesnt look so bad now.
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      08-18-2010, 06:23 PM   #26
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Sounds about right.
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      08-18-2010, 06:41 PM   #27
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What was the money factor at the time? Its looks like they used a residual of about 53%. That would definitely factor into the large payment. Also, it looks like the $13K was the difference between the value of your trade minus the balance of the outstanding loan?
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      08-18-2010, 07:36 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DadzM3 View Post
The reason they needed all that money down has nothing to with your credit is my bet. You traded in a 09' 335 that you were buried in, so you needed $13k down to cover the negative equity in that car. BMW wouldn't allow/buy the lease at the price they would have had to show as the selling price if they had to show the negative equity. It would have put you way over MSRP and BMW wont allow that on a lease. On a purchase they would allow it if you have great credit. I sold cars for a long time and this is super common. At least you did it with a lease so at the end you are no longer buried, but you need to keep it until the end. If you had bought the car instead of leasing and had all that negative equity added in you would be buried for the life of the loan. This is just my opinion for what it is worth, but I am guessing this is what happened based off of some of the deals I have seen done and heard about.
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^ ding! Mystery is solved!

Dealer should have explained this to you. You basically had to pay 13k to get out of your 335i lease early. Ouchie.

In that case, your lease deal alone on the M3 doesnt look so bad now.
I owed $13,xxx on my 335i and they gave me $44,000.00 for it, leaving me a check for 30,xxx, and from that I gave them $13,000.00 for the M3.
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      08-18-2010, 07:49 PM   #29
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Un-ding.
Time to reset ideas for why this deal went so wrong.
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      08-18-2010, 07:57 PM   #30
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Un-ding.
Time to reset ideas for why this deal went so wrong.
I talked to someone in the car business and he said that the residual (I think) is 50% and the Internet or money factor I think he said was .0018
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      08-18-2010, 08:13 PM   #31
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I owed $13,xxx on my 335i and they gave me $44,000.00 for it, leaving me a check for 30,xxx, and from that I gave them $13,000.00 for the M3.
You sure? The settlement statement shows the value of the 335 vert to be 44,000. Balance of credit or lease: 30,257, and a net trade in value of 13,700. And it looks like you used the 13,700 as a down payment, does that sound right? Also, the lease is for a 2010 M3, correct? The MF and residuals were not as good on the 2010 as the current 2011 lease factors, so that would definitely make the payment high even with the 13K down. I don't think the MF was ever as low as .0018 on the 2010 but I don't know for sure. What was the date of the transaction?
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      08-18-2010, 08:15 PM   #32
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      08-18-2010, 08:20 PM   #33
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You sure? The settlement statement shows the value of the 335 vert to be 44,000. Balance of credit or lease: 30,257, and a net trade in value of 13,700. And it looks like you used the 13,700 as a down payment, does that sound right? Also, the lease is for a 2010 M3, correct? The MF and residuals were not as good on the 2010 as the current 2011 lease factors, so that would definitely make the payment high even with the 13K down. I don't think the MF was ever as low as .0018 on the 2010 but I don't know for sure. What was the date of the transaction?
Yea I had alot of equity in the 335i so after they paid it off I was left with that $30,xxx amount, and from that they took the 13,xxx for my down payment!

But at the end of the day would it have made a difference if I put less down?? Wouldn't that just make my monthly payments higher?? I got the car in April of this year.
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      08-18-2010, 08:43 PM   #34
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Yea I had alot of equity in the 335i so after they paid it off I was left with that $30,xxx amount, and from that they took the 13,xxx for my down payment!

But at the end of the day would it have made a difference if I put less down?? Wouldn't that just make my monthly payments higher?? I got the car in April of this year.
Well I am totally confused. The settlement statement shows you owed $30,000 on the vert, but maybe I am reading it wrong. At any rate, the low residual value means you are leasing more depreciation, which is why your payment is still $700+ despite the large down payment. Yes, you would have had a higher monthly payment without the down payment, but the attraction of leasing is to keep the monthly payments low while minimizing your initial cash outlay. That is what the forum members here are reacting to.
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      08-18-2010, 08:53 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Cptn Mo 703 View Post
Yea I had alot of equity in the 335i so after they paid it off I was left with that $30,xxx amount, and from that they took the 13,xxx for my down payment!

But at the end of the day would it have made a difference if I put less down?? Wouldn't that just make my monthly payments higher?? I got the car in April of this year.
you leased it at the wrong time. april rate were very high/bad comparing to todays. i still remember the finance rate was 4.9 when i signed the deal in april, and it is 1.9 now....same with leasing
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      08-19-2010, 09:23 AM   #36
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Well I am totally confused. The settlement statement shows you owed $30,000 on the vert, but maybe I am reading it wrong. At any rate, the low residual value means you are leasing more depreciation, which is why your payment is still $700+ despite the large down payment. Yes, you would have had a higher monthly payment without the down payment, but the attraction of leasing is to keep the monthly payments low while minimizing your initial cash outlay. That is what the forum members here are reacting to.

No I got $30,000 for my 335i after i traded it in and got paid off, and then from there i took 13,xxx +2500 bmw was giving for the down payment for the car.
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      08-19-2010, 09:33 AM   #37
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Should have just bought the car if you were putting so much down. Leasing with so much up front doesn't make sense since at the end for the lease, you lose that down payment. When you buy, you don't. That is why I reacted and most people are reacting. Remember, think of leasing as renting an item. If I told you that you could rent an apartment for 800 bucks a month but you had to put down a down payment of 25K, you would say no right? This is along the same lines. By putting the 13K as a down payment, that is gone at the end of the lease since you don't own the car. If you had bought, you own the car so whatever money you put in, you can technically get out again when you sell the car minus depreciation.

This was a good deal for Fairfax either way.
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      08-19-2010, 09:41 AM   #38
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With a $700+/monthly payment I believe they "over allowed" on your trade so they could show a larger down payment to BMW. They basically took the "equity" you had in your car and discounted the new car enough to make it look like a huge monthly payment was being put down. If you go to BMW's site and use their lease calculator and use $13k as a down payment you will see your payment will be in the $700/month range on a fully loaded $75,655 M3, 3 year lease. So if they had discounted the car your payment would go down about $20-$22 for every $1000 down additional. So basically they in reality sold you your car at full price, over allowed on the trade to make it look like you put $13k down, show you equity on your trade and not have to show BMW a full MSRP deal plus your negative equity. So if they had given you a good deal on the car with $13k down you would have a payment of around $540/month depending on options. I see your car was in the $68k range, so with that money down and a good deal you would have had a payment in the $450-$480 range. So they did not totally screw you in my opinion, but they didn't do you any favors either.
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      08-19-2010, 09:46 AM   #39
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Quote:
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With a $700+/monthly payment I believe they "over allowed" on your trade so they could show a larger down payment to BMW. They basically took the "equity" you had in your car and discounted the new car enough to make it look like a huge monthly payment was being put down. If you go to BMW's site and use their lease calculator and use $13k as a down payment you will see your payment will be in the $700/month range on a fully loaded $75,655 M3, 3 year lease. So if they had discounted the car your payment would go down about $20-$22 for every $1000 down additional. So basically they in reality sold you your car at full price, over allowed on the trade to make it look like you put $13k down, show you equity on your trade and not have to show BMW a full MSRP deal plus your negative equity. So if they had given you a good deal on the car with $13k down you would have a payment of around $540/month depending on options. I see your car was in the $68k range, so with that money down and a good deal you would have had a payment in the $450-$480 range. So they did not totally screw you in my opinion, but they didn't do you any favors either.
I would tend to agree with this assesment. For comparison sake, my car MSRP was 70K and my down payment with $1800. My payment is $995/month. A 2 year old 335i vert with 31k disappeared also with no negative equity but my current car was part of a trade assist from BMW. They made a 2 year old car go away and discounted the new one so that my payment actually dropped by a couple of dollars compared to my 335 vert.
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      08-19-2010, 04:25 PM   #40
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Should have just bought the car if you were putting so much down. Leasing with so much up front doesn't make sense since at the end for the lease, you lose that down payment. When you buy, you don't. That is why I reacted and most people are reacting. Remember, think of leasing as renting an item. If I told you that you could rent an apartment for 800 bucks a month but you had to put down a down payment of 25K, you would say no right? This is along the same lines. By putting the 13K as a down payment, that is gone at the end of the lease since you don't own the car. If you had bought, you own the car so whatever money you put in, you can technically get out again when you sell the car minus depreciation.

This was a good deal for Fairfax either way.
Funny thing is he did not put 13 k down he actually put down I think 13,700 plus the 2,500 they gave him for the car making it 16,200 on a lease . This dude makes no sence comming out of a BMW after owning then giving 16,200 TO BORROW A CAR. Sry this happened to you but WTF man. They must have seen him comming from 10 miles away. WTFyou don't do any research before giving 16 k to a dickhead dealer. I am lost for words. I wish there was a way to see if he could see if anything could be done. This should never happen from anyone repersenting BMW TOTAL BULLSHIT.
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      08-19-2010, 04:58 PM   #41
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But at the end of my lease weather i put 16,000 down or not wont i pay the same amout for the car at the end of my 3 years, it makes my payments lower!!
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      08-19-2010, 06:03 PM   #42
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But at the end of my lease weather i put 16,000 down or not wont i pay the same amout for the car at the end of my 3 years, it makes my payments lower!!
Correct, the lease end value is the lease end value regardless of how much you put down, and you are also correct in your statement that your payments are lower with a larger down payment. Most people do not buy the cars at the end of the lease though because the lease end value is calculated from full MSRP and not the "sale" price that your lease is based on. So essentially you are paying more then MSRP since you pay a money factor/Interest on the lease and then if you were to finance the car at the end of lease to buy it you are then paying even more interest. This is why most people say if you put a large down payment on a car you are better off to buy it then lease it. Many times people still will do a fairly large down payment and lease because it is still less expensive then buying. If you are in and out of cars every few years then the lease is the way to go because you would be buried in the car if you were to purchase it unless you put a huge down payment on it or bought it outright. Example: I put down $10k+ on my M3 but I bought it at 3.9% for 60 months and my payment is in the mid $800 range, if I were to have leased it my payment would have been the same with only $2k out of pocket +/-. I would have preferred to have leased it but at the time there were no 2011's out, only 2010's like the one you got. I found an 09' with 645 miles on it and it was a CPO car so I bought it. In two years if I wanted to get out of it, without that large downpayment I would be upside down in it, but on the lease you would just walk away and have no negative equity. Many, many people do exactly what you do on a daily basis, and IMO there is nothing wrong with it. People who own a business don't do it for tax reasons, but for someone who doesn't and just wants a low payment I don't really see a reason not to. People say keep the money in the bank or invest it and let it earn interest etc, but right now your money is working just about as hard for you in the car as it would be in the Stock Market. if you break down what the extra $5k costs per month in payment vs. lowering your payment you will find that in most cases it will actually be cheaper to put it in the car. Not by much at all, but still it saves you a few bucks.
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      08-19-2010, 06:34 PM   #43
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The big reason not to put any cap cost is the chance to lose it when leasing. The better way to go is MSD that you get back are end of lease. I guess you could save $60-70 a month with MSDs in place of cap cost.
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      08-19-2010, 06:51 PM   #44
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As originally posted "How do I know if I got a good deal!"

Well, the answer is,- you know you got a good deal when you don't get any gifts when taking delivery
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