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      08-13-2010, 05:47 PM   #23
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Brand new guy chiming in here.

First - Hello all. I've enjoyed the forum (nice place) for a while, but didn't sign up until I finally got my car.

My $.02 on the dct vs 6mt is simple - if you have to ask, you should probably get the dct.

If a person (me, for one) is passionate about the feeling derived from driving a manual, there is no substitute, no matter how technologically advanced it may be.

That's certainly not meant to mean that dct guys aren't passionate about theirs. It is meant to mean what I say - if you're passionate about a manual, get a manual - if not, get the dct.
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      08-13-2010, 06:01 PM   #24
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Exclamation DCT

I owned 5 manual shift cars in a row since 1995, and the DCT is the first time I drove something better than a manual. It has all the advantages of both a manual and automatic, and none of the drawbacks of either.
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      08-13-2010, 06:54 PM   #25
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While the DCT is a great feature, I dont understand why most of you who are true sport car enthusiasts dont prefer manual instead. I dont know, guess its a personal thing. But I would think there would be more M3 stick drivers as opposed to DCT
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      08-13-2010, 07:08 PM   #26
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Ive been automatic for all of my cars, except my M. I will never go back to auto. The end.
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      08-13-2010, 07:41 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Psylight View Post
Ive been automatic for all of my cars, except my M. I will never go back to auto. The end.
I have always been an automatic guy except for my first car ever back when i was 16. I prefer the DCT.
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      08-13-2010, 07:43 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackLight View Post
I owned 5 manual shift cars in a row since 1995, and the DCT is the first time I drove something better than a manual. It has all the advantages of both a manual and automatic, and none of the drawbacks of either.
DCT doesn't provide the enjoyment of double-clutching and rev matching on a downshift yourself or heel-toeing into a corner. Yes, it does it for you, but takes out 90% of the fun doing it yourself and getting it right. There's also joy in using your left foot and right hand to manually shift. With DCT, you are telling the car what to do. With a manual, you are almost part of the mechanics of the car. It's just a more engaging experience. No one can argue with that.

So yes, it has advantages over a manual (like being faster and always performing perfect up and downshifts), but there are still advantages a manual has over DCT which is true control over shifting which provides a more engaging experience.

Last edited by radiantm3; 08-13-2010 at 07:54 PM.
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      08-13-2010, 07:47 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335rocket View Post
While the DCT is a great feature, I dont understand why most of you who are true sport car enthusiasts dont prefer manual instead. I dont know, guess its a personal thing. But I would think there would be more M3 stick drivers as opposed to DCT
Plenty of sportscars use fancy, non-manual transmissions, and have for awhile. I think of non-manuals (DCT, SMG, DSG) as more about performance with the added benefit of convenience. Most people who get manuals do so simply because they find them more enjoyable (which is why if you have to ask, you should go DCT). It's not really a sportscar vs non-sportscar debate.
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      08-13-2010, 08:45 PM   #30
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No offense OP, but I hate seeing these threads, because there is no objective answer. It's down to preference. There's nothing wrong with either. The car wasn't made for one or the other. It was made for both. The bottom line, and the point often overlooked, is that you still have a choice. For many other cars, that choice does not exist. So let's be thankful that BMW offers both for all of its enthusiasts.
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      08-13-2010, 09:18 PM   #31
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^^^^

+!1

6MT here
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      08-14-2010, 11:48 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
Funny - every DCT car I have driven - and that must be about 15 now - does not downshift 2 gears if I ask it to, the transmission always selects the intermediate gear first before getting the gear I ask for. Watch the rev counter, you can see it doing this.

Having had SMG as well I would definitely say that this is one thing that SMG does do faster than DCT.
You've got me curious now. I'll try in later on an isolated stretch of road. I am almost certain you must be wrong though. What I'll do is put the car in D2, let it get to 7th gear at about 45 mph, and absolutely jam on the brakes. I'll bet you the rev counter does not hit every single gear on its way down to 1st. If it does, then I will be truely amazed at the speed of this shifts, thats for sure.

In any case, I can't see how the behavior of the DCT here - whatever it is - could really be considered a disadvantage vs. SMG. What exactly are you hoping the car will do better here?
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      08-14-2010, 12:31 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
You've got me curious now. I'll try in later on an isolated stretch of road. I am almost certain you must be wrong though. What I'll do is put the car in D2, let it get to 7th gear at about 45 mph, and absolutely jam on the brakes. I'll bet you the rev counter does not hit every single gear on its way down to 1st. If it does, then I will be truely amazed at the speed of this shifts, thats for sure.

In any case, I can't see how the behavior of the DCT here - whatever it is - could really be considered a disadvantage vs. SMG. What exactly are you hoping the car will do better here?
To be honest, I am not sure about D mode, my comments were about S mode, and what happens when you pull the paddle twice, in order to get 2 shifts, e.g 4 to 6. If you think about it, the clutch in action must be the clutch required if you skip a gear, 4th and 6th, and 2nd all use the same clutch. If drive is to be maintained, the transmission must select the intermediate gear whilst the clutch being used is disengaged, to allow the desired gear to be selected......if you see what I mean.

In the hard braking situation you describe, it could be that the transmission predicts your requirement and does not shift sequentially through each gear, but targets the right gear when the deceleration has finished, and whilst braking hard you probably dont notice the sequence of changes.

My point was, there is one circumstance where SMG does shift quicker than DCT - when you are looking to skip 1 gear, because underneath it all, the actual gearbox uses an H-pattern, which does not require selection of the intermediate gear
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      08-14-2010, 12:46 PM   #34
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I do see what you mean with respect to DCT, however I have to disagree with you. And, regarding the SMG transmission, I disagree that it uses an H pattern. I suppose you meant that it is a standard 6 speed manual transmission? If so, yes, I acknowledge that is true. But I don't think you understand that the DCT is also not a sequential manual (like found on a typical motorcycle) either. It can shift from any gear too any gear. In fact, we just recently had this discussion in another thread. Since we've gone OT quite a bit here, I will direct you there for further discussion (if you would):

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412453

I said a whole lot about this topic there that I don't want to repeat again. Now, if you read the thread you'll probably note that there is some speculation there too. However, much of what I said there can be backed up simply by trying these things IRL, which I have done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
To be honest, I am not sure about D mode, my comments were about S mode, and what happens when you pull the paddle twice, in order to get 2 shifts, e.g 4 to 6. If you think about it, the clutch in action must be the clutch required if you skip a gear, 4th and 6th, and 2nd all use the same clutch. If drive is to be maintained, the transmission must select the intermediate gear whilst the clutch being used is disengaged, to allow the desired gear to be selected......if you see what I mean.

...

My point was, there is one circumstance where SMG does shift quicker than DCT - when you are looking to skip 1 gear, because underneath it all, the actual gearbox uses an H-pattern, which does not require selection of the intermediate gear
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      08-14-2010, 12:47 PM   #35
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Why does it have to switch to the other transmission though? I agree it should be slower than single shifts to switch between 2-4 directly on the same transmission, but couldn't it do a disengage 4 - select 2 - engage 2 instead of a disengage 4 - engage 3 - select 2 - disengage 3 - engage 2?
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      08-14-2010, 01:16 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sor View Post
Why does it have to switch to the other transmission though?
It doesn't. And - small nitpick - there's only one transmission. There are two clutches and two output shafts though, yes.

Quote:
I agree it should be slower than single shifts to switch between 2-4 directly on the same transmission, but couldn't it do a disengage 4 - select 2 - engage 2 instead of a disengage 4 - engage 3 - select 2 - disengage 3 - engage 2?
Yes, it absolutely could do that and absolutely does do that.
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      08-14-2010, 01:30 PM   #37
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If possible, test drive both and decide which is better for you.
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      08-14-2010, 01:32 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kibosh View Post
I've driven stick all my life but I'm thinking of going DCT when I order my M3... it somehow seems wrong, but I can't see myself being able to shift faster than the technology, and in stop and go traffic a stick is irritating...
I was the same as you 15 years driving MT...took a chance and ordered DCT on my M3 and it is absolutely amazing - forget daily driving and convenience........when you are getting on it DCT is just so much fun, the shifts in S5 or S6 push you back into the seat with no loss of momentum, the throttle blipping on the downshifts as you approach corner, the car is not just faster 0-60, it is just faster period - it is an amazing transmission.
I have heard the arguements that 6MT is more fun and involving -never thought i'd say this but i disagree.
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      08-14-2010, 01:36 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
To be honest, I am not sure about D mode, my comments were about S mode, and what happens when you pull the paddle twice, in order to get 2 shifts, e.g 4 to 6. If you think about it, the clutch in action must be the clutch required if you skip a gear, 4th and 6th, and 2nd all use the same clutch. If drive is to be maintained, the transmission must select the intermediate gear whilst the clutch being used is disengaged, to allow the desired gear to be selected......if you see what I mean.

In the hard braking situation you describe, it could be that the transmission predicts your requirement and does not shift sequentially through each gear, but targets the right gear when the deceleration has finished, and whilst braking hard you probably dont notice the sequence of changes.

My point was, there is one circumstance where SMG does shift quicker than DCT - when you are looking to skip 1 gear, because underneath it all, the actual gearbox uses an H-pattern, which does not require selection of the intermediate gear

Don't agree - i can shift from 6th to 3rd with 3 quick flicks of the left paddle almost instantly......or just plant the throttle fully and pull on the left paddle once and DCT will put me in the optimal gear and revs for max acceleration.
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      08-14-2010, 02:42 PM   #40
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      08-14-2010, 03:00 PM   #41
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faster because it may shift a tad bit quicker, but I highly doubt the acceleration is any faster
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      08-14-2010, 03:16 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335rocket View Post
faster because it may shift a tad bit quicker, but I highly doubt the acceleration is any faster
BMW disagrees with you. They quote 2 tenths faster to 60. You should take it up with them
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      08-14-2010, 03:19 PM   #43
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yeah I know that, Im saying 2 tenths of a sec faster due to quicker shifting, not actual power and acceleration
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      08-14-2010, 03:30 PM   #44
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Quote:
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BMW disagrees with you. They quote 2 tenths faster to 60. You should take it up with them
omg
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