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      08-13-2010, 11:12 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC ///M View Post
^ Got it, thanks for the clarification aajami.

I read someone's post in this thread that stated it was SS...then again, someone else posted later that it was made by "Light Weight"...
The news release on BMW's press site says the tips are titanium and that it's 44% lighter than stock.

Even if it's made of pure unobtainium, but you can buy it from BMW next year.
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      08-13-2010, 11:17 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
I'm not sure why the $5,000 price/rumor is gaining traction...
I think because of the mention of Inconel and the fact that the Inconel Eisenmann is ~$7.5k.
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      08-14-2010, 01:32 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
The news release on BMW's press site says the tips are titanium and that it's 44% lighter than stock.
Interesting.
I was responding to mkoesel regarding his comparison of the GTS vs. GT4 exhausts.
Are you saying that the BMW Performance auspuff and the GTS exhaust are the same? If so, then compared to the 50lb+ weight reduction of the AkraGT4 system, the GTS (BMWPerformance?) exhaust is a bit heavier.
You'd think that if it was a pure titanium system they wouldn't flaunt the marketing point about just the tips...perhaps it is made of light weight SS afterall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Even if it's made of pure unobtainium, but you can buy it from BMW next year.
I'm not sure I understand this part...
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      08-14-2010, 01:56 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC ///M View Post
Interesting.
I was responding to mkoesel regarding his comparison of the GTS vs. GT4 exhausts.
Are you saying that the BMW Performance auspuff and the GTS exhaust are the same? If so, then compared to the 50lb+ weight reduction of the AkraGT4 system, the GTS (BMWPerformance?) exhaust is a bit heavier.
You'd think that if it was a pure titanium system they wouldn't flaunt the marketing point about just the tips...perhaps it is made of light weight SS afterall.
..
BMW actually spells it out pretty clearly. This is from the press release:

"The M Performance sports silencer featured on the BMW M3 provides a particularly characteristic enhancement of the V8 engine sound. The extremely heat-resistant sports silencer, which is 40 percent lighter than the regular series production component, consists of a chromium-nickel material developed for motor racing. The characteristic M double tailpipes are made of titanium."

There you have it. Exhaust is Inconel, and the tips are Ti.

I don't think this BMW Performance exhaust is the same exhaust on the GTS. BMW Performance's US manager Eric Riehle said in March that he wanted to released the GTS exhaust as an accessory for US owners, but I think his plans changed and a unique BMW Performance exhaust for the M3 was a more feasible solution, and that's the one that was recently announced.
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Last edited by aajami; 08-14-2010 at 02:29 PM.
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      08-14-2010, 01:36 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
There you have it. Exhaust is Inconel, and the tips are Ti.
Thanks aajami.

Quote:
I don't think this BMW Performance exhaust is the same exhaust on the GTS. BMW Performance's US manager Eric Riehle said in March that he wanted to released the GTS exhaust as an accessory for US owners, but I think his plans changed and a unique BMW Performance exhaust for the M3 was a more feasible solution, and that's the one was recently announced.
Question, is why is this more feasible? Seems like having the two different parts just means more expense. For that matter, you throw in the GT4 exhaust and that's three. I understand the GT4 is a race system that lacks cats (or at least emissions legal cats), but they could have just added those. Different tools for different jobs I guess, but it just seems like all the OEM parts overlap for the same vehicle is a bit much. Plus, I think you can even buy the GT4 exhaust too, from a select few dealers. I suppose that will cost a big chunk of change though. And you would not pass your states smog tests (if you have them).
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      08-14-2010, 02:28 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Thanks aajami.



Question, is why is this more feasible? Seems like having the two different parts just means more expense. For that matter, you throw in the GT4 exhaust and that's three. I understand the GT4 is a race system that lacks cats (or at least emissions legal cats), but they could have just added those. Different tools for different jobs I guess, but it just seems like all the OEM parts overlap for the same vehicle is a bit much. Plus, I think you can even buy the GT4 exhaust too, from a select few dealers. I suppose that will cost a big chunk of change though. And you would not pass your states smog tests (if you have them).
I'd guess there would be several factors why these exhausts would be different:

1) The GTS has a different engine than the standard M3, so I'm sure BMW would want to tune the two exhausts differently.

2) The GTS is not certified for sale in the US, probably because of emissions issues (and because BMW didn't want to certify a new engine for import given the GTS' very low production numbers). Maybe that means that the GTS exhaust has HF cats whereas the BMW Performance exhaust doesn't, or is simply an axle-back.

And yeah, the Akra Evo won't pass smog certification, so the lighter Akra on the GT4 has no chance of doing so either.
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      08-14-2010, 02:34 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
The news release on BMW's press site says the tips are titanium and that it's 44% lighter than stock.

Even if it's made of pure unobtainium, but you can buy it from BMW next year.
i wouldnt get it even if made from nutroneum. pure antiproton
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      08-14-2010, 07:48 PM   #30
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If it is Inconel we should expect a heavy price tag I wouldn't be shocked if it is more than 5000 ...Eisenmann selling theirs for 7400...
Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
BMW actually spells it out pretty clearly. This is from the press release:

"The M Performance sports silencer featured on the BMW M3 provides a particularly characteristic enhancement of the V8 engine sound. The extremely heat-resistant sports silencer, which is 40 percent lighter than the regular series production component, consists of a chromium-nickel material developed for motor racing. The characteristic M double tailpipes are made of titanium."

There you have it. Exhaust is Inconel, and the tips are Ti.

I don't think this BMW Performance exhaust is the same exhaust on the GTS. BMW Performance's US manager Eric Riehle said in March that he wanted to released the GTS exhaust as an accessory for US owners, but I think his plans changed and a unique BMW Performance exhaust for the M3 was a more feasible solution, and that's the one that was recently announced.
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      09-18-2010, 06:39 PM   #31
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Bump

Let's keep this post hot!
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      09-21-2010, 12:34 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
BMW actually spells it out pretty clearly. This is from the press release:

"The M Performance sports silencer featured on the BMW M3 provides a particularly characteristic enhancement of the V8 engine sound. The extremely heat-resistant sports silencer, which is 40 percent lighter than the regular series production component, consists of a chromium-nickel material developed for motor racing. The characteristic M double tailpipes are made of titanium."

There you have it. Exhaust is Inconel, and the tips are Ti.

Chromium nickel doesn't necessarily mean Iconel. It could. But, there are Chromium Nickel stainless steels, like 316 or 316L. (since they are similar to 304 stainless, they'd be appropriate for exhaust use)
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      11-14-2010, 11:25 PM   #33
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      11-17-2010, 06:21 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
Chromium nickel doesn't necessarily mean Iconel. It could. But, there are Chromium Nickel stainless steels, like 316 or 316L. (since they are similar to 304 stainless, they'd be appropriate for exhaust use)
316 stainless steel also goes for a huge premium over 304. Somewhere in the area of 50-100% increase in material cost over 304. At least that's what I see in the construction industry.
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      11-17-2010, 06:49 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
316 stainless steel also goes for a huge premium over 304. Somewhere in the area of 50-100% increase in material cost over 304. At least that's what I see in the construction industry.
Yup!

But, the materials cost in an exhaust is probably $100, so $200 for materials doesn't make a huge difference
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      11-17-2010, 07:33 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
Yup!

But, the materials cost in an exhaust is probably $100, so $200 for materials doesn't make a huge difference
That's not what the manufacturer's will tell you A $1500 exhaust will become a $3000 exhaust even if they only use $200 worth of material. If we were only taking about $100, there's little reason for any exhaust to be made out of 304 because the corrosion resistance properties of 316 are so much better.
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      11-17-2010, 09:07 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
That's not what the manufacturer's will tell you A $1500 exhaust will become a $3000 exhaust even if they only use $200 worth of material. If we were only taking about $100, there's little reason for any exhaust to be made out of 304 because the corrosion resistance properties of 316 are so much better.
I hear you, but I think that the actual raw materials are a very small part of any exhaust. I don't doubt in the slightest that there is at least an 80% margin on my Akrapovic. But that's ok, that's what the market will support, power to them!
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      11-17-2010, 10:17 PM   #38
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Don't catalytic converters contain platinum and rhodium in the US? That alone has to drive the cost of the raw materials above the (arbitrary) $100 mark quoted in this thread.
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      11-17-2010, 11:47 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Don't catalytic converters contain platinum and rhodium in the US? That alone has to drive the cost of the raw materials above the (arbitrary) $100 mark quoted in this thread.
rear sections don't include catalytic converters.

but yes, especially the factory cats that have to last 100k miles, the raw materials are quite a bit more.

But, in this case, we're just talking about a few lengths of steel (or whatever) tubing. Yes, the machining tools, and yes the bender and the welding equipment and the other ancillaries are not free, but the point is that the gross profit on an exhaust is quite high, especially for small markets like the m3.
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      11-18-2010, 12:43 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
rear sections don't include catalytic converters.

but yes, especially the factory cats that have to last 100k miles, the raw materials are quite a bit more.

But, in this case, we're just talking about a few lengths of steel (or whatever) tubing. Yes, the machining tools, and yes the bender and the welding equipment and the other ancillaries are not free, but the point is that the gross profit on an exhaust is quite high, especially for small markets like the m3.
Agreed...

I refuse to play at those price levels.

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      11-18-2010, 05:30 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Don't catalytic converters contain platinum and rhodium in the US? That alone has to drive the cost of the raw materials above the (arbitrary) $100 mark quoted in this thread.
Good point. Why is the Akra GT4 system more expensive than the Evo when the main difference is no cats or resonator. Just a straight pipe.
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      11-18-2010, 07:25 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
Yup!

But, the materials cost in an exhaust is probably $100, so $200 for materials doesn't make a huge difference

Exactly. +1

They're banking on BMW owners being:
1) Really stupid
2) Really wealthy
3) Incredibly uninformed
4) Really stupid
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      11-18-2010, 10:52 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpina527 View Post
Good point. Why is the Akra GT4 system more expensive than the Evo when the main difference is no cats or resonator. Just a straight pipe.
According to Akra, the GT4 pipes are hand built and not a normal part of production.
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      11-18-2010, 01:25 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpina527 View Post
Good point. Why is the Akra GT4 system more expensive than the Evo when the main difference is no cats or resonator. Just a straight pipe.
That's a simple market vs demand, the people who will buy a catless system, especially seeing as how it wouldn't be TUV approved in Germany and other EU countries is smaller.

Yes, their materials cost is less, but the cost of goods sold, due to the smaller market is higher. Does it make sense? Not necessarily, but the need to maximize their profits on limited product items.
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