Autoweek: E92 M3 versus Audi RS5 Roadtest [video]

[///V\3Dude]

That was a really nice comparo!! Both cars sounds great, The M3 got a pretty high pitch engine for a v8

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

well that makes my drive to work much better

[ImStig]

+1
Are you planning on ED?

Originally Posted by Donnie-Bay

gotta love the M3! Cant wait till i get one in a few months!!

[Alex@Alpine]

wow

[Jack28]

"If you want the best in the class, Its definitely the M3!" Very well said by Autoweek

[kaykay]

I'm starting to feel bad for Audi...

A car that's not even available for sale, not yet released, 3rd direct attempt at dethroning the E9x M3 - still can't do it.

Hey, at least they're getting close

M3, the benchmark.

[woodman650]

Originally Posted by BlackMagic

nice, but the audi looks good too damn.
110 thousand euros wow thats about 180 grand...

I don't think that's quite right.

[graider]

Originally Posted by KASM3

Good Question.
I think because of all of the anticipation, hype and delays surrounding the M3 when it first came out, everyone had a different image of what it should've been. Everyone wanted the lightweight, edgy e46 successor with 6 piston brakes that was more e30 than anything seen since. BUT BMW got what they wanted. 2 cars in one. Everyday smooth commuter with a trunk and a high revving BEAST that has a chassis that is better than the engine. They made a perfectly balanced everything car and no one got that in 2007-2008. Everyone is getting it now!

well put sir.

[duk]

owneddd

[Golgothar]

Muhahaha!

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by kaykay

I'm starting to feel bad for Audi...

A car that's not even available for sale, not yet released, 3rd direct attempt at dethroning the E9x M3 - still can't do it.

Hey, at least they're getting close

M3, the benchmark.

I wouldn't say they're getting close, I would say they got pretty damn close with the last RS4 which I liked, in some ways, more than the E46 M3 and would have seriously considered it if I was in the position to buy one.

Today? It would be an easy choice to buy the M3 with the C63 in second place, I usually hate automatics but for some reason that car is a ridiculously entertaining package. Must be all that torque.

[NavidM3E92]

I really feel Audi is not a comparison. Just look at the body of the BMW's vs Audi's. The only one that looks good is the R8.

Like i said before, I am SO happy to have the best M3 ever built.

[duk]

audi can surely compete with quality (esp interior) though, driving dynamics and engine not quite

[j0hn]

inb4footie

[ss134]

Originally Posted by BlackMagic

nice, but the audi looks good too damn.
110 thousand euros wow thats about 180 grand...

110000 Euro is about $140000 - these cars are very expensive in Europe- but the bonus is you see rarely see another one on the road - looks another failed attempt by Audi to take on the M3, i really think they should concentrate on their own brand selling points as opposed to going after the sportiness of BMW's M cars - they would love to be seen as the drivers choice in this segment but BMW seem to always get that tick in the box.....must be quite frustrating for the Audi engineers!

[mixja]

What's with the New Zealand flag on the Audi driver?

[footie]

Audi have failed in part, the weight was way too much this time round and it's something that will need to be addressed with the next model.

But when you consider that during these comparison tests it has weighed upwards of 400lbs more than the M3 yet has only 30hp more and a gearbox with upper ratios that are geared for economy I think that Audi have made a hell of an achievement with this car. I still want to see how two non press cars perform against each other because while I have repeated matched the times S4s have got during their test in my S4 I have never got close to equaling the times M3s did. Odd that.

Fact is that after driving the RS5 I came away marvelling at how different I felt from the experience to that of the reviewers who have tested it. I didn't feel that the steering was numb or that it pushed the nose everywhere, in fact driven like an AWD should the nose will not budge at all, but then again that isn't as much fun because it calls for a slow in fast out approach which is not the way you would drive an M3 or C63, these cars only need a grab of throttle to quash any understeer that might happen. Driven right and the RS5 is extremely effective with at time a slight swing of the tail on exit, not the huge tail outs of the others but still bags of fun.

What BMW did with the Competition package is retain the slight edge, but I wonder how much of this improvement is down to their tweaks and how much is down to the new PS3 rubber. Either way in the UK where I live the two cars when similarly specced are about the same price, so the question is whether slight dry weather track superiority of the M3 CP is much important than vastly superior wet weather ability and ease of approaching those limits of the RS5?

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by footie

Audi have failed in part, the weight was way too much this time round and it's something that will need to be addressed with the next model.

But when you consider that during these comparison tests it has weighed upwards of 400lbs more than the M3 yet has only 30hp more and a gearbox with upper ratios that are geared for economy I think that Audi have made a hell of an achievement with this car. I still want to see how two non press cars perform against each other because while I have repeated matched the times S4s have got during their test in my S4 I have never got close to equaling the times M3s did. Odd that.

Fact is that after driving the RS5 I came away marvelling at how different I felt from the experience to that of the reviewers who have tested it. I didn't feel that the steering was numb or that it pushed the nose everywhere, in fact driven like an AWD should the nose will not budge at all, but then again that isn't as much fun because it calls for a slow in fast out approach which is not the way you would drive an M3 or C63, these cars only need a grab of throttle to quash any understeer that might happen. Driven right and the RS5 is extremely effective with at time a slight swing of the tail on exit, not the huge tail outs of the others but still bags of fun.

What BMW did with the Competition package is retain the slight edge, but I wonder how much of this improvement is down to their tweaks and how much is down to the new PS3 rubber. Either way in the UK where I live the two cars when similarly specced are about the same price, so the question is whether slight dry weather track superiority of the M3 CP is much important than vastly superior wet weather ability and ease of approaching those limits of the RS5?

give it up dude. The RS5 is not at the M3 level and that has been proven by 2 or 3 professional testers already. You keep on coming back, trying to redeem the Audi, and we both know that is not going to happen.

You can talk about the interior or the valve stem caps and how the mirrors are nicer but at the end of the day, Audi did not achieve its intended goal.

And who ever fed you all that BS before the RS5 was out, was obviously wrong.

If you like the RS5, then that is great! Many people do including many on this forum (I like it). However, just come to terms with what the RS5 is and not what you want it to be.

Besides, this is an M3 forum. I am sure over at the Audi forum, they can somehow justify the RS5 performing better and that this is really all a conspiracy to take Audi down and that BMW paid the testers

Do you own an M3 or RS5?

If you own an M3, then you made a great choice so you should be happy. If you own an Audi, just sell it an get the M3. You will save so much time not having to justify how Audi secretly outperforms BMW.



-SZ

[footie]

Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO

Do you own an M3 or RS5?

If you own an M3, then you made a great choice so you should be happy. If you own an Audi, just sell it an get the M3. You will save so much time not having to justify how Audi secretly outperforms BMW.



-SZ

Yes I did own an M3 last year, in fact I only got rid of it in late August '09. It was a wonderful driving car, I think if you had ever bothered to read some of my last posts on the car you would have known that. But their were some minor issues with it, mainly the lag from the DCT which never got fixed prior to it going and it's lack of low end grunt in my opinion. Plus of course the fact that where I live where it rains more often than not the occasions to use most of that power were rather limited.

Why do you feel that I am trying to justify it's performance? I am stating a fact, my M3 never achieved the kind of figures that these press cars did, was that a failing of me or the car? If you think it was me then explain what you can be doing wrong with it's LC and as for the Audi, well it doesn't even have LC so you simply floor the throttle and the awd system does the rest, yet it's the S4 which repeatedly matches those times set by the magazines.

Kind of odd that.

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by footie

Yes I did own an M3 last year, in fact I only got rid of it in late August '09. It was a wonderful driving car, I think if you had ever bothered to read some of my last posts on the car you would have known that. But their were some minor issues with it, mainly the lag from the DCT which never got fixed prior to it going and it's lack of low end grunt in my opinion. Plus of course the fact that where I live where it rains more often than not the occasions to use most of that power were rather limited.

Why do you feel that I am trying to justify it's performance? I am stating a fact, my M3 never achieved the kind of figures that these press cars did, was that a failing of me or the car? If you think it was me then explain what you can be doing wrong with it's LC and as for the Audi, well it doesn't even have LC so you simply floor the throttle and the awd system does the rest, yet it's the S4 which repeatedly matches those times set by the magazines.

Kind of odd that.

It is kind of odd that the car didn't work as advertised for you and it does for the large majority of consumers and testers. So I am confident that it was either a fail on your part or you had lemon.

Personally, I don't use LC that often because I don't really have that need but if you are always flooring the car like you say, and your driving skill is not sufficient to properly launch a RWD car, then the AWD system is a great choice; one cannot negate the grip/launch advantage of AWD.

However, in your quest to water-down the performance advantage that the M3 has over the RS5, I think that if you are an open minded and reasonable person, you can conclude that unfortunately, the RS5 did not meet your expectations, at least in terms of performance.

I am thinking that you experienced some of the bugs associated with the first generation e9X m3. Personally, I have a 2009, and I have never had issues with my DCT. I drive in DC traffic everyday and drive her hard in the twisties at least 3-5 hours per month.

So, go test drive a 2011 and see if it still suffers from the same issues that made you trade your m3 for an Audi. I think you may just trade in your Audi and pick up a new 2011 M3 with ZCP

-SZ

[E60orBust]

Originally Posted by dlbrooks18

with turbo's and a boatload of torque

I might be wrong on this part:
N54 = two turbos, single scroll - ~330HP / 330TQ
N55 = single turbo, twin scroll - ~ 300HP / 300TQ

F30 = two turbos, twin scroll? - ~480HP / 490TQ?

If that is the case, then...umm...yeah. If they can't catch the M3 now, they won't even see the tailights on the next generation

[footie]

Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO

It is kind of odd that the car didn't work as advertised for you and it does for the large majority of consumers and testers. So I am confident that it was either a fail on your part or you had lemon.

Personally, I don't use LC that often because I don't really have that need but if you are always flooring the car like you say, and your driving skill is not sufficient to properly launch a RWD car, then the AWD system is a great choice; one cannot negate the grip/launch advantage of AWD.

Believe me, my skills at launching a rwd car are up to scratch. I was only highlighting that using LC the car controls the wheel spin and shifts the gears for you, all you do is keep the throttle pinned and steer. If it can't achieve those figures this way then it never will because this method takes driver skill out of the equation.

Oh and I seldom used it, I much preferred to balance the wheel spin and shift itself but I was generally seldom as quick using this method.

Only one way to know, you or someone else with a stock M3 try and match those times. Try popping out a 4.2s (3.9s using rollout) that C&D got.

Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO

However, in your quest to water-down the performance advantage that the M3 has over the RS5, I think that if you are an open minded and reasonable person, you can conclude that unfortunately, the RS5 did not meet your expectations, at least in terms of performance.

I am thinking that you experienced some of the bugs associated with the first generation e9X m3. Personally, I have a 2009, and I have never had issues with my DCT. I drive in DC traffic everyday and drive her hard in the twisties at least 3-5 hours per month.

So, go test drive a 2011 and see if it still suffers from the same issues that made you trade your m3 for an Audi. I think you may just trade in your Audi and pick up a new 2011 M3 with ZCP

-SZ

I got mine in Sept '08 so yes it was one of the early ones, but even with the updates it failed to cure the lag and I also know of a few members who even to this day suffer it with what they are told is the latest updates.

With regards to the performance of the RS5, while I did expect more, the best reported time of 15.6s is still over half a second slower than I was told I am not disappointed with the car. I doesn't feel heavy (even though it is) and nor does the steering feel as numb as some reviewers claim, in fact the difference between it and the M3 is hardly worth mentioning. It isn't as exciting to drive as an M3 though this is something no one expected it to be but in many other ways it's far superior, the traction out of corners is unreal and once the nose is settled no amount of throttle will unstuck it, plus it's suspension setting offer more refinement to the ride and it's taller gearing makes it a much better mile muncher.

Overall it would be a car I would love to own, apart from the small issue of the TT-RS which in my mind beats them all.