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      08-09-2010, 04:55 PM   #67
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....Spending time on a track vs. racing are two very different things. I've seen people with all type of cars enjoying them at the track during an HPDE, from a Dodge Charger (station wagon), to a MB AMG S55. Unless you're in a very rural area, it's the only place you'll truely get to feel what your car is able to do, even with my limited skill....
Agreed, a little play time is great for any car, but track considerations like cooling (engine, trans, diff, brakes), brake fluid, pads, etc., can start to matter pretty quickly depending on the track speeds and number of laps.

3,700 pounds is a lot of mass to move around and will tend to stress all the other parts trying to manage it. You don't have to be in a race to push safe boundaries, just a few laps can be enough.
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      08-09-2010, 05:47 PM   #68
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I have had my 09 335i for the last year and I am in the process of selling it to buy a 2011 M3. Ironically, my business partner has a 2009 M3 DTC. My 335i has a good amounts of mods and is more then fast enough to be a DD. I have driven the 2009 M3 on several occasions, and ride in it everyday.

The two are night and day when you get down to it. Both have their strong points and weak points. Primarily, the 335 "can" be significantly faster then a M3 with relatively inexpensive modifications, and the low-end torque is insane when it is tuned, the M3 cannot match that. That being said, the suspension quality, even with upgrade components, is nowhere near the quality of the M3, not even close. The handling in the M3 is truly amazing, and when it is matched with the V8, and the 6M or DTC Tranny, it really becomes a "drivers" car....so seamless. For me, the M3 drives, looks, and feels better then a 335 any day of the week. The sound of the V8 always gets me, and I would take that over a 335 with twins.

Have I tracked my car my 335? No, but I would track the M? Maybe. Looking at other options available, within the same price range, it is difficult to find another car that is equally matched as a "drivers car." Sure other cars might have more HP, take the C63, or the CTS-V for example, but "overall" performance and handling is still grades below the M3. If you can afford a M3, do it, and you will never regret it every time you turn on the engine and step on the gas.
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      08-09-2010, 05:54 PM   #69
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I think the M3 is fine as a DD even if you do not want to track it, but the great thing is if you do track it; it its amazing for it. Best of both worlds.
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      08-09-2010, 07:58 PM   #70
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BMW with rear wheel drive will blow anything S4 out of the snow!

Check this video out!

One of the few things that makes me miss winter. The e9x handles amazingly in the snow. I never felt I had so much control drifting around with any car as I do this one w/ snow tires
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      08-09-2010, 10:11 PM   #71
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AMEN, brother!

It's a great daily driver. My E93 will never see track time, but it's a great car.
You can't really use all of the performance of a 328 on the street let alone an M3. Hell I had a hard time using all of the performance of my 78 Honda Accord coupe on public roads and have the traffic tickets to back that statement up. You don't have to be using 100% of the capabilities of a car to appreciate it.

The M3 is a great car and is an excellent daily driver. With the DCT in Auto mode the M3 can be an old ladies car. That is the genius of its design. Awesome performance when you want it and a totally docile civilized and practical daily driver. What more could you ask for in a car?
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      08-10-2010, 12:31 AM   #72
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My 2010 Coupe has been my sole daily driver since purchase in Nov. 2009. currently has just over 20K with numerous, multi-thousand mile road trips. has never been tracked and most likely won't. No maintainence issues; on 2nd set of rear tires and has had 3 oil services. Only mods include Akrapovic slip-on and drop in AFE dry filter. Love it....
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      08-10-2010, 12:32 AM   #73
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Agreed, a little play time is great for any car, but track considerations like cooling (engine, trans, diff, brakes), brake fluid, pads, etc., can start to matter pretty quickly depending on the track speeds and number of laps.

3,700 pounds is a lot of mass to move around and will tend to stress all the other parts trying to manage it. You don't have to be in a race to push safe boundaries, just a few laps can be enough.
I agree with what you're saying, but the M3 (with proper pads/brake fluid) just flows on the track. King Leh, along with many other track junkies here, run their M3's at the track just fine, so I sure as hell shouldn't brake mine. It doesn't feel like 3,700 lbs out there.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      08-12-2010, 12:34 AM   #74
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sbm3 - how is the M3 at touring? Also, what size/brand tires do you run? How's tire noise during these trips? I've been thinking the M3 coupe, and would love to take it on to 1000+ mile cruises.

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My 2010 Coupe has been my sole daily driver since purchase in Nov. 2009. currently has just over 20K with numerous, multi-thousand mile road trips. has never been tracked and most likely won't. No maintainence issues; on 2nd set of rear tires and has had 3 oil services. Only mods include Akrapovic slip-on and drop in AFE dry filter. Love it....
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      08-12-2010, 01:33 AM   #75
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I can't answer for sbm3 but I LOVE the M3 on trips. I set the EDC on comfort and it's great. For really high speed cruising (160+ MPH) I'd like either more weight or more downforce as the car starts to feel a bit light but realistically outside of Germany that won't be an issue. Other than that the much too small gas tank means you need to stop more often but on the plus side, that does mean you have to get out of the car, stretch your legs, and refresh and refocus more often as well.

Basically, I think the M3 is a great GT.
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      08-12-2010, 02:07 AM   #76
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That just enticed me even more on European Delivery!

On the side note, instead of a high-speed train network, the government should spend the money to upgrade our existing highway system. Or let's build an autobahn-quality highway system that require additional driver licensing. I would pay toll on that road.

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I can't answer for sbm3 but I LOVE the M3 on trips. I set the EDC on comfort and it's great. For really high speed cruising (160+ MPH) I'd like either more weight or more downforce as the car starts to feel a bit light but realistically outside of Germany that won't be an issue. Other than that the much too small gas tank means you need to stop more often but on the plus side, that does mean you have to get out of the car, stretch your legs, and refresh and refocus more often as well.

Basically, I think the M3 is a great GT.
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      08-12-2010, 01:20 PM   #77
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I personally enjoyed the fact that I owned an M car. The engine, handling (suspension, tires) are all special. To me it's almost akin to owning a Tourbillon watch; excellent mechanically, but totally unnecessary.

Somebody commented on never being able to explore limits of even a 328 on a public road and the same goes for the M3 or even a P Car or an F Car. Therefore, all the other factors that contribute to the experience has to count more.

Did the performance center M Driving School and that got me really addicted to exploring the limits of the car, so I'll probably take it to the track at some point.

But the main motivation to buying the M3 for me was: Engine, general handling, and the need for a 4 door car.

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      08-12-2010, 08:22 PM   #78
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That just enticed me even more on European Delivery!

On the side note, instead of a high-speed train network, the government should spend the money to upgrade our existing highway system. Or let's build an autobahn-quality highway system that require additional driver licensing. I would pay toll on that road.
The majority of US freeways are, IMO, in better condition. There is FAR more debris on every autobahn I've been on versus most US highways. Plus, unless your'e around major cities most of the autobahns are 2-lanes. The biggest differences are considerably better driver training and that Germans understand that driving is a priveledge, not a right.
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      08-12-2010, 08:35 PM   #79
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You can't really use all of the performance of a 328 on the street let alone an M3. Hell I had a hard time using all of the performance of my 78 Honda Accord coupe on public roads and have the traffic tickets to back that statement up. You don't have to be using 100% of the capabilities of a car to appreciate it.
Very well said. I have a 335 myself, the craziest thing I have done was take her to 6000 rpm ish on 3rd gear and that was on an early Sunday morning in a completely empty highway and it was too much.

All this suspension and the EDC and the M button will hardly make enough difference to justify the cost difference for true daily driving.

Bottom line is this:

1) There is no way to come here and get the verdict - "M3 is a waste of money, it's overpriced, 335 is more than enough". 95% of people here own(ed) M3s, to think that they will admit to this is craziness.

2) M3 is not for everybody. People who do own M3 shouldn't need to be in a situation such that they "need" to justify their purchase of M3. Most of them have enough money to own and maintain the M3. If you can't do that and find yourself barely be able to afford it, it's not the right car for you.

3) This whole "daily driver" argument is piece of crap. You are talking about BMWs, even a 328 is WAY more than enough for a "daily driver". These are 50k+ cars, most people don't see that much money in their savings account until they are 65 years old (some even don't see it - period).

4) When you have enough money in the bank such that the 20k difference doesn't create such an impact on your life, go buy the M3. Otherwise, it is nothing but wasting your money, because if you have 85k in the bank (just giving an example) and you worked 10 years for it and you are asking if spending 75k of it for "daily driving" makes sense, you are out of your mind, after all it is just a car!

Take it easy - take care.
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      08-12-2010, 09:03 PM   #80
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There is proably not a car available today that is not capable of comfortabley cruisng at well above the speed limit. The purpose of car is transportation. Its purpose is to get you from one place to another. Anything beyond that is overkill so basically any BMW (or Audi, or Lexus, or Mercedes) is a waste of money.

These are not practical decisions, they are emotional decsisions and in my opinion if you want an M3 (or any other "overkill" car) and you can afford it, then by all means go fot it.

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Last edited by captainaudio; 08-12-2010 at 10:38 PM.
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      08-12-2010, 10:08 PM   #81
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IMO, if you're not going to take it to the track, you're wasting your money on an M3. There is really no way to use the car's performance on the street, and most of the time, it will be idling in traffic. So essentially, you would be paying a lot of money just for the M3 badge. I think a 335i would be a better daily driver.
Agreed - before my m3, I had a 330i ZHP: great car for tooling around in, great chassis/suspension/exterior/interior - but it always left me a little disappointed in power (not much - but enough to be memorable). That said, the current 335 has a lot of juice from the turbo and is a fantastic car for the money. I certainly don't think of it as downmarket, as imho - a much better value than the m3 if you have no intentions on tracking it.

Of course, as others pointed out, if money is no object, than the M3 is a Ferrari/Porsche for half the money plus 2 extra seats. The AMG and S are "great copies, but copies none the less"
- Clarkson

I just wouldn't recommend the M3 if you weren't going kick it in the guts (even at just 7/10ths) on a track at least once...
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      08-13-2010, 01:17 AM   #82
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My 335 have not gone above 2500rpm for half a year because if I did I would be breaking the speed limit.

Arguments such as, "everyone should buy a C63 because 95% of the population don't go to the track".

So question is, does 95% of the population break the speed limit to enjoy the the C63?
Buy a 6.2L V8 but stick to the speed limit ?

In most cases, you don't need to break the speed limit in order to receive an infringement.

If given a choice either M3 or Scuderia, both with rev limit set at 3000rpm. I take the Scuderia without any hesitation.

And of course, it would be nice to go to the track once in a while to "fully" enjoy the car.
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      08-13-2010, 05:52 PM   #83
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Exclamation M3 is not a racecar

Yes, it might be possible to track it and not flip on the first turn, but it will do poorly compared to real racecars that don't need airbags, ground clearance, emission controls and creature comforts.

I bought it because it is a great GT, using racecar derived technology, sounds and feels great.

You might enjoy it even more after exploring its capabilities on the track, or not.

If I wanted a racecar that I can also drive on the street, I would have bought something completely different.
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      08-16-2010, 09:14 AM   #84
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I have a 2010 M 3 that I use daily and previous to that the 2004 M 3..fully loaded, cabriolets both, SMG etc., GREAT MACHINE.

The double clutch transmission and the 414 hp make it a different auto, all together.

A 'keeper' for sure as a real 'drivers car'.
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      08-16-2010, 09:49 PM   #85
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It's a great, fun, around-town car.
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      08-17-2010, 12:18 AM   #86
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Yes, it might be possible to track it and not flip on the first turn, but it will do poorly compared to real racecars that don't need airbags, ground clearance, emission controls and creature comforts.

I bought it because it is a great GT, using racecar derived technology, sounds and feels great.

You might enjoy it even more after exploring its capabilities on the track, or not.

If I wanted a racecar that I can also drive on the street, I would have bought something completely different.
Are you serious??? It might be possible to track this car without flipping it?
And who the hell compares a street car to a race car??
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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