BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
European Auto Source
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-07-2010, 01:18 PM   #111
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
324
Rep
10,612
Posts


 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
If there was such a restriction why do you only pick up 3 hp over a filter alone?
I'm not sure where the 3hp figure is coming from, the dyno shown was run in over 101F heat during a recent SoCal heatwave, giving realistic figures during extreme conditions on a stock M3.

A filter swap is good for about 5-6hp as seen on other dynos, the ICP is the next bottleneck in the system showing gains that are relatively linear for an additional +5hp from 5200+ rpm on the sheet shown in post#80, with more gains seen on the street once airflow matches vehicle speed as well as cooler IATs.

We're not looking to enter any debates, just provide info as requested. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me directly.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2010, 02:52 PM   #112
bren335i
Banned
4
Rep
203
Posts

 
Drives: E60 M5
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: BOSTON

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
There is a considerable amount added from the replacement Intake Charge Pipe also, there a a considerable restriction in the lower portion as seen in post#94.
There is no data that supports this. Less excuses - and more testing of the pipe itself.

Couple HP is run to run variance anyways.
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2010, 03:00 PM   #113
erio
Captain
erio's Avatar
United_States
22
Rep
801
Posts

 
Drives: e92 JB M3, 2012 GTR
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: GA

iTrader: (0)

Yeah we simply need some comparison data between 1) MS filter alone 2) intake kit (including filter) and 3) stock with the same dyno/conditions....hopefully on a day without smoldering heat and high humidity. Otherwise, this is all speculation.

Last edited by erio; 09-07-2010 at 03:07 PM.
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2010, 03:01 PM   #114
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
324
Rep
10,612
Posts


 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by bren335i View Post
There is no data that supports this. Less excuses - and more testing of the pipe itself.

Couple HP is run to run variance anyways.
The ICP by design requires the included filter, it cannot be used alone.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2010, 07:54 PM   #115
kitw
Colonel
kitw's Avatar
60
Rep
2,627
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 MW M3/2014 Boxster S
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (14)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
The ICP by design requires the included filter, it cannot be used alone.

Yeah, but what was asked for was the MS drop in filter by itself, and then compared to the stage 2 intake kit. If what you said is true, we should see a significant difference. I bet it would boil down to being dyno error. (less than 5 hp)
Appreciate 0
      09-07-2010, 08:38 PM   #116
endofanera7
Major General
endofanera7's Avatar
No_Country
118
Rep
5,188
Posts

 
Drives: 08 JB E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (15)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [5.00]
Send a message via AIM to endofanera7 Send a message via MSN to endofanera7
Imo measuring horsepower is no longer apply in such a way that 1hp + 1hp = 2hp with all the modern adaptive ecu and technology in play. You might dyno a part and show 10 hp gain today and dyno it again in a month, even in the exact same weather condition, the number will most likely be different. So saying that the filter gains 7 and the charge pipe gains 3 = 10 hp total is simply ridiculous.

I have seen people buying parts that cost 5x as much as this without knowing whether it is the real deal and whether it gains or loses power. I dont wanna name any company.
Appreciate 0
      09-08-2010, 06:12 AM   #117
J08M3
Major General
J08M3's Avatar
United_States
102
Rep
6,012
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NEW YORK

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by endofanera7 View Post
Imo measuring horsepower is no longer apply in such a way that 1hp + 1hp = 2hp with all the modern adaptive ecu and technology in play. You might dyno a part and show 10 hp gain today and dyno it again in a month, even in the exact same weather condition, the number will most likely be different. So saying that the filter gains 7 and the charge pipe gains 3 = 10 hp total is simply ridiculous.

I have seen people buying parts that cost 5x as much as this without knowing whether it is the real deal and whether it gains or loses power. I dont wanna name any company.
People aren't exactly saying 3+7 hp = 10 and that you can add each parts hp. What we are saying is a filter alone will give you about 6-7 hp based on numerous dyne claims. Therefore the extra plastic being sold here doesn't give you much.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      10-07-2010, 07:45 PM   #118
J08M3
Major General
J08M3's Avatar
United_States
102
Rep
6,012
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NEW YORK

iTrader: (8)

So I guess the dyno graph isn't going to make it to the forum? What's that mean? No power was made that day with the new plastic pieces??
__________________
Appreciate 0
      10-08-2010, 11:54 AM   #119
WCM3
canŧ főcus mŷ attėntĭon
WCM3's Avatar
United_States
27
Rep
1,345
Posts

 
Drives: 11 M3 & 95 M3t
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Downingtown, Pa

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Dennis View Post
so on a cost per horse power perspective
$50 per hp is pretty good

not takeing torque into consideration

for caparison:

5000 exhaust, say a 20 hp gain
thats $250 per hp

under drive pullies $350
12 hp gain
thats $30 per hp

$1000 software update
14 hp
thats 71 per hp

all numbers are ball park of course, off the top of my head
i always kinda wanted to look more closly at these numbers if there isnt a thred already on it
What piece of that exhaust gain is only due to an xpipe/hfc? And what you're telling me is the mod path should be Aftermarket Filter (only), Underdrive pulleys, x-pipe, then software. That's how I'll let the most power.
__________________
2011 M3 Coupe - Individual Fire Orange/Black Novillo Extended Leather, 6MT, Mode Carbon, Eisenmann Race, BBS CH-R, BC Coil-overs
1995 M3 Coupe - Avus/Hurricane, AEM EMS, Precision Turbo, Boostlogic, H&R, Fikse FM/5, MaxVelocity, Maximum PSI, 20% Tint, etc etc..
2009 M3 Coupe - AW/Fox Red, 6MT, Carbon Roof, Shadow Trim, etc (Sold)
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2010, 10:59 AM   #120
blackangelm3italy
New Member
0
Rep
19
Posts

 
Drives: BMW 335D E92 M///
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: ITALIA

iTrader: (0)

ho montato il kit Macht Schnell releases their Stage 2 Intake Charge Kit,
il mio parere e che:
funziona bene ,
- auto piu silenziosa e motore lineare in accelerazione
- dai 5000rpm in poi spinge di piu
- dai 1000-1800 rpm l'auto e un po piu lenta
a breve cronometrare i tempi 0-100? e 0-200? km

grazie Macht Schnell in italia questi kit non esistono
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2010, 11:46 PM   #121
SOCAL
Private First Class
6
Rep
182
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackangelm3italy View Post
ho montato il kit Macht Schnell releases their Stage 2 Intake Charge Kit,
il mio parere e che:
funziona bene ,
- auto piu silenziosa e motore lineare in accelerazione
- dai 5000rpm in poi spinge di piu
- dai 1000-1800 rpm l'auto e un po piu lenta
a breve cronometrare i tempi 0-100? e 0-200? km

grazie Macht Schnell in italia questi kit non esistono
Uhhh.. Que?
Appreciate 0
      10-30-2010, 01:08 AM   #122
blackangelm3italy
New Member
0
Rep
19
Posts

 
Drives: BMW 335D E92 M///
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: ITALIA

iTrader: (0)

I mounted the kit Macht Schnell Their releases Stage 2 Intake Charge Kit, and my opinion: it works well - the most peaceful and linear motor car during acceleration - from 5000rpm onwards push harder - from 1000-1800 rpm the car and a bit slower in the short time 0-100 times? and 0-200? Macht Schnell km by Italy in these kits do not exist
Appreciate 0
      10-30-2010, 08:14 AM   #123
turbo8765
Lieutenant
6
Rep
562
Posts

 
Drives: very fast
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Is it louder than a drop in filter alone?

Can you guys test with an spl meter?
Appreciate 0
      10-30-2010, 08:45 AM   #124
Dntlvet
Dntlvet
Dntlvet's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
448
Posts

 
Drives: 10 M3 Sedan,13 GT-R BE,13 Pors
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

price info yet?
Appreciate 0
      04-01-2011, 01:53 AM   #125
iDRIFT
Lieutenant
No_Country
3
Rep
399
Posts

 
Drives: Fast!
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: N.America

iTrader: (0)

Can we see a dyno pls
Appreciate 0
      04-01-2011, 02:07 AM   #126
11' AW M3
Major
United_States
30
Rep
1,237
Posts

 
Drives: 11' ZCP E92 M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: california

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyShades View Post
Can we see a dyno pls
lol- I don't think you will be seeing one. People were asking for it 5 months ago, with nothing posted.
__________________
2011 AW/FR Extended E92 M3... fully loaded
Appreciate 0
      04-01-2011, 03:37 AM   #127
endofanera7
Major General
endofanera7's Avatar
No_Country
118
Rep
5,188
Posts

 
Drives: 08 JB E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (15)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [5.00]
Send a message via AIM to endofanera7 Send a message via MSN to endofanera7
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11' AW M3 View Post
lol- I don't think you will be seeing one. People were asking for it 5 months ago, with nothing posted.
I believe a dyno was posted by Tom a while back, even before they release the kit to the public. The dyno test was done on my car at VF Engineering facility. I was on site right next to the dyno to witness the gains with my own eyes.
Appreciate 0
      04-01-2011, 06:02 AM   #128
J08M3
Major General
J08M3's Avatar
United_States
102
Rep
6,012
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NEW YORK

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by endofanera7 View Post
I believe a dyno was posted by Tom a while back, even before they release the kit to the public. The dyno test was done on my car at VF Engineering facility. I was on site right next to the dyno to witness the gains with my own eyes.
No it wasn't posted. Tom posted the Macht Schnell dyno. The one IND tested never got posted
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-22-2011, 06:10 PM   #129
merlin00069
Second Lieutenant
merlin00069's Avatar
4
Rep
214
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW  [0.00]
Bump for new info on this. Interested but am skeptical.
__________________
///M3 E92
Alpine White, Carbon Fiber Roof, Fox Red
Appreciate 0
      04-22-2011, 07:54 PM   #130
11' AW M3
Major
United_States
30
Rep
1,237
Posts

 
Drives: 11' ZCP E92 M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: california

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
No it wasn't posted. Tom posted the Macht Schnell dyno. The one IND tested never got posted
YUP! IND was going to do an independent test/dyno...

I want to see a baseline run (maybe 2-3) and then a few runs with the stage 2 on... take the average of both and compare. Its not enough to just slap on the intake, do one run and post the gains. Many tuners have already mentioned how the M3 completely stock can vary by like 8hp from run to run done back to back...
__________________
2011 AW/FR Extended E92 M3... fully loaded
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2011, 06:45 PM   #131
B R A N D X
Second Lieutenant
B R A N D X's Avatar
6
Rep
213
Posts

 
Drives: Fast Cars!
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC

iTrader: (0)

Odd......I'd think if IND's indy dyno test showed no meaningful gains over a drop-in filter alone one of the guys would post something like: "Sorry folks....great looking, well designed and manufactured product, but no discernible gains over a simple drop-in."

This might hurt sales of this Intake Kit, but would only further boost IND's already stellar reputation for honesty and integrity.

If the independent dyno tests showed gains along the lines of M-S's own dyno graph it seems logical that they would have been posted a long time ago.

On the other hand, simply abandoning the thread and ignoring the numerous requests for the independent dyno results leaves one only to form their own, possibly inaccurate, but probably negative opinion of the M-S kit and, unfortunately, of IND since Nate was the OP who started the thread to announce what seemed to be an exciting new product. And while there was no specific mention of hp/tq gains from this kit in the original post it seems to me to have been kind of implied.

I don't get it...........
__________________
-Stu-
2011 E90 ///M3 DCT ZCP | Space Gray | Silver Novillo |
2011 F10 550i | Space Gray | Oyster & Black Nappa | ///M Sport | 8 Spd Auto
"A toast then: To the BMW M3, the greatest all-around car in the world."
-Arthur St. Antoine, Motor Trend Magazine's Editor at Large

Last edited by B R A N D X; 04-24-2011 at 06:51 PM.
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2011, 05:16 AM   #132
Sal@Evolve
24
Rep
1,063
Posts

 
Drives: Slow
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by B R A N D X View Post

This might hurt sales of this Intake Kit, but would only further boost IND's already stellar reputation for honesty and integrity.


This is how companies should be. IND get alot of respect from other honest companies and we hope they continue to grow. A real asset to the tuning market.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:51 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST