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      07-30-2010, 11:11 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srt8/bmw View Post
curious, and excuse my lack of knowledge...what is ZCP M3?
It's the new performance package available on the M3 - slightly lower suspension, wider wheels, retuned EDC shocks, retuned EDC programming, retuned M drive mode and a different launch control on the DCT tranny.

On the face of it, minor changes - but apparently sufficient to improve the lap times measurably.

Quote:
It gives a guy like me, who is somewhat forced to have a 4 door sedan, drive a car that has world class performance in every measure, loaded--for $70,000. Thats an option that just wasn't there a year or two ago.
Well the M3 sedan came out in 2008 and I got mine last year for $51k + taxes. Picked it up in Munich, drove it on the Nurburgring, then took the family all the way to Southern Spain before finally dropping it off at Nice.

Of course there are times when I wish for a slightly bigger trunk or a little more backseat space, but on balance it's the perfect car for me. And I definitely feel like it was tremendous value for the money, even if I stretched my initial budget a bit in order to accommodate it.
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      07-30-2010, 11:18 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
It's the new performance package available on the M3 - slightly lower suspension, wider wheels, retuned EDC shocks, retuned EDC programming, retuned M drive mode and a different launch control on the DCT tranny.

On the face of it, minor changes - but apparently sufficient to improve the lap times measurably.



Well the M3 sedan came out in 2008 and I got mine last year for $51k + taxes. Picked it up in Munich, drove it on the Nurburgring, then took the family all the way to Southern Spain before finally dropping it off at Nice.

Of course there are times when I wish for a slightly bigger trunk or a little more backseat space, but on balance it's the perfect car for me. And I definitely feel like it was tremendous value for the money, even if I stretched my initial budget a bit in order to accommodate it.
well those are great tweaks to an already great vehicle--it explains the improved time at the ring.

I guess I never considered the M3 sedan--maybe mistakenly-thinking it wasn't big enough to take 4 people on a long trip with lugguge etc..

If it is big enough--it would be a great option...
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      07-30-2010, 11:32 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srt8/bmw View Post
I guess I never considered the M3 sedan--maybe mistakenly-thinking it wasn't big enough to take 4 people on a long trip with lugguge etc..

If it is big enough--it would be a great option...
I'd say it's right there on the edge for a regular family - it can either work or not. I was able to fit 3 medium pieces of luggage in the trunk plus a couple of backpacks, but it required a bit of planning...
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      07-30-2010, 11:49 AM   #114
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I'd say it's right there on the edge for a regular family - it can either work or not. I was able to fit 3 medium pieces of luggage in the trunk plus a couple of backpacks, but it required a bit of planning...
hmmm

maybe I shouldn't be looking at the 550 to be the next car. Maybe I should be looking at the M3 sedan...
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      07-30-2010, 01:35 PM   #115
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Quote:
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hmmm

maybe I shouldn't be looking at the 550 to be the next car. Maybe I should be looking at the M3 sedan...
Well, a chipped 550i would be a fearsome beast - but to me, it falls on the "heavy" side. (I'm not even taking money into consideration).

Whatever you do, don't get the 1st year production on the 5er.
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      08-01-2010, 07:06 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srt8/bmw View Post
hmmm

maybe I shouldn't be looking at the 550 to be the next car. Maybe I should be looking at the M3 sedan...
You finally get it
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      08-02-2010, 12:12 PM   #117
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You finally get it
+1. No. Don't bother with the new 5 series, including the 550. See the following thread below. I have shared my opinion as have many others. It's turned into an overweight with Lexus like suspension (even with the sports handling package) and the new steering has terrible feel/feedback (it's the new electrical steering system they are using). Car and Driver was spot on in their assessment. If they offer the M package suspension in the U.S. it may improve. Lexus lovers, welcome aboard to BMW. If you want a 5 series, wait for the new m5 or buy an e60 550 with sports package. Test drive to see for yourself.

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=402309

Last edited by erio; 08-02-2010 at 12:20 PM.
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      08-02-2010, 03:54 PM   #118
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i've never heard a stock m3 sound that nice hmm
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      08-03-2010, 01:38 AM   #119
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i've never heard a stock m3 sound that nice hmm
You haven't experienced an orgasm then
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      08-03-2010, 02:24 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erio View Post
+1. No. Don't bother with the new 5 series, including the 550. See the following thread below. I have shared my opinion as have many others. It's turned into an overweight with Lexus like suspension (even with the sports handling package) and the new steering has terrible feel/feedback (it's the new electrical steering system they are using). Car and Driver was spot on in their assessment. If they offer the M package suspension in the U.S. it may improve. Lexus lovers, welcome aboard to BMW. If you want a 5 series, wait for the new m5 or buy an e60 550 with sports package. Test drive to see for yourself.

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=402309
The new 5 is brilliant but only with the right rims and suspension package. Even if you wait for the M/Sport pack I would still chose the adaptive suspension option because it covers all bases with it's multiple settings. Yes it's heavy but all modern cars are, especially in this category and as for the steering not being great on feel, I say find me one of it's competitors that are much better.

Personally this is the best 5 series since the E39.
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      08-03-2010, 03:59 AM   #121
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Just a few more years of college and it's all mine
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      08-03-2010, 08:19 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
The new 5 is brilliant but only with the right rims and suspension package. Even if you wait for the M/Sport pack I would still chose the adaptive suspension option because it covers all bases with it's multiple settings. Yes it's heavy but all modern cars are, especially in this category and as for the steering not being great on feel, I say find me one of it's competitors that are much better.

Personally this is the best 5 series since the E39.
I have to disagree with that assessment. Look on the 5 series forum and you will also find that previous gen. 5 series owners and most who test drive the car are disappointed, excluding looks and all the electronic gizmos. Have you driven the car? If so, I'm really suprised you feel it's the best since the e39. I feel the e60 is a much better drivers car in all respects from steering to handling. It's now more like a luxury sedan as opposed to a sports sedan. As for the steering, I agree it may be better than competitors, but it's becoming more like their steering instead of an improvement. The hydraulic steering had much better feel/feedback. Also, I read somewhere on here that the M sport pack suspension may not be available in the U.S. If it is, you cannot get the adaptive suspension along with the M suspension. See the following thread:
http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...=sport+package

Last edited by erio; 08-03-2010 at 08:36 AM.
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      08-03-2010, 08:23 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srt8/bmw View Post
curious, and excuse my lack of knowledge...what is ZCP M3?

your question is a good one, but its an age old question. The heavier, high HP versus the lighter, more nimble, high reving ??

M3 has a long and elaborate history as the benchmark here, and it is well deserved. Certainly, the CTS-v sedan will never threaten in that regard.

But taken on its own merit....a roughly 4200 lb sedan that can run sub 8 minute lap at the ring in production form, a 2:50 lap at monticello by a raw amateur, and float down the freeway with 4 passengers on a long road trip--that is a spectacular achievment for an american car maker.

It gives a guy like me, who is somewhat forced to have a 4 door sedan, drive a car that has world class performance in every measure, loaded--for $70,000. Thats an option that just wasn't there a year or two ago.
+1 Well said.

While I would not trade my M3 for a CTS-V, it is because of cars like the CTS-V that BMW continues to make the m3 better. In the end, we all win!

-SZ
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      08-03-2010, 08:56 AM   #124
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+1 Well said.

While I would not trade my M3 for a CTS-V, it is because of cars like the CTS-V that BMW continues to make the m3 better. In the end, we all win!

-SZ
Exactly! That's why I hoped the RS5 would do a little better to push BMW.
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      08-03-2010, 10:04 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by erio View Post
I have to disagree with that assessment. Look on the 5 series forum and you will also find that previous gen. 5 series owners and most who test drive the car are disappointed, excluding looks and all the electronic gizmos. Have you driven the car? If so, I'm really suprised you feel it's the best since the e39. I feel the e60 is a much better drivers car in all respects from steering to handling. It's now more like a luxury sedan as opposed to a sports sedan. As for the steering, I agree it may be better than competitors, but it's becoming more like their steering instead of an improvement. The hydraulic steering had much better feel/feedback. Also, I read somewhere on here that the M sport pack suspension may not be available in the U.S. If it is, you cannot get the adaptive suspension along with the M suspension. See the following thread:
http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...=sport+package
My opinion may well be different but that is how I feel, oh and yes I have driven the new 5er, several of them with different rim and suspension combinations. I think the reation is very similar to the time when the E92 M3 arrived back then E46 M3 owners felt it too had gone soft and lose it's edge, like the E92 M3 this new 5er is a more accomplished allrounder, may be it leans a little too much towards the luxury side than some feel it should but it's definitely the best 5 since the E39 in my opinion.

P.S. You don't need the M/Sport suspension when you pick the adaptive suspension, it's similar to that of the EDC in the M3 in that it offers a similar setting option to that of M/Sport only that it also offers the driver a comfort settings as well.
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      08-03-2010, 10:07 AM   #126
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Exactly! That's why I hoped the RS5 would do a little better to push BMW.
It's a mistake to think that Audi have failed with the RS5, it's just that it's not an M3 type car that's all.
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      08-03-2010, 12:47 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
My opinion may well be different but that is how I feel, oh and yes I have driven the new 5er, several of them with different rim and suspension combinations. I think the reation is very similar to the time when the E92 M3 arrived back then E46 M3 owners felt it too had gone soft and lose it's edge, like the E92 M3 this new 5er is a more accomplished allrounder, may be it leans a little too much towards the luxury side than some feel it should but it's definitely the best 5 since the E39 in my opinion.

P.S. You don't need the M/Sport suspension when you pick the adaptive suspension, it's similar to that of the EDC in the M3 in that it offers a similar setting option to that of M/Sport only that it also offers the driver a comfort settings as well.
I'm aware that the adaptive suspension is similar as I drove it in all settings. I didn't think the sport+ setting was as good as the previous M sport suspension. That's why I would like to drive one with that suspension as well.
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      08-03-2010, 01:17 PM   #128
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Quote:
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...I would still chose the adaptive suspension option because it covers all bases with it's multiple settings.
Wow an about face from all prior debates on the flexibility/usefulness/ desirability of vehicle systems with a large range of adjustment/customization. Better to flip flop than be dogmatic I guess...
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      08-03-2010, 01:20 PM   #129
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I'm aware that the adaptive suspension is similar as I drove it in all settings. I didn't think the sport+ setting was as good as the previous M sport suspension. That's why I would like to drive one with that suspension as well.
I actually prefer the Sport+ compared to my memory of M/Sport in a E60 535d I drove. But I fully agree to try before you buy.
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      08-07-2010, 09:36 PM   #130
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1. The CTS-V coupe is terrible looking from side/back...and having a huge engine doesn't mean anything
2. Audi RS5 is a great looking car and is very close to BMW
3. Really? Doesn't have an upscale interior? I think its one of the best in its class...

BMW just knows how to get things done. period.
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      08-07-2010, 09:46 PM   #131
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It's a mistake to think that Audi have failed with the RS5, it's just that it's not an M3 type car that's all.
If the RS5 is aimed at the M3 and at a higher price tag most consumers would expect it to outperform the M3. I'm not saying the RS5 failed in general but compared to the M3 I can only see those who want something more exclusive purchasing it.

If it is not an M3 type car what type of car is it ? Serious question.
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      08-08-2010, 12:39 AM   #132
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I see the RS5 as much more of a GT than the M3. That's not to say the M3 isn't a GT, I don't think, even in coupe form it's a true sports car, but it leams MUCH more in that direction than the RS5 IMO. To be honest, I think that's the major distiction between the two brands on the whole. For long drives I prefer the Audi feel. For sportier driving, BMW. Either works well for DD.
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