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      01-10-2007, 11:56 AM   #45
canuck335i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaws
as you are obviously blinded ideology. My view of the world is quite different than yours.
AND THAT IS WHY THERE ARE WARS ALL THE TIME ON THIS PLANET, every country see it as they fit, from ganeil personal belief, it is sad to see extremist are not only in other countries, these wars will never stop...
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      01-10-2007, 04:11 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Jaws
Wow, big stretch. Could they have been in Syria? Please show me the money flow. The Bush admininistration has shown no evidence of a link. I get a kick out of how you think 1990 UN resolutions some how have any type of relevence to the current Iraq war. Another stretch.
I am done with this thread, as you are obviously blinded by ideology. My view of the world is quite different than yours.
Yes, my world view is based on reality while you seem to be content to wallow in ignorance. I am glad you are quitting. Your ignorant statements simply confused the issue.

Have a good day!

For anyone else who may be following the thread, here is a link to UNSCR 1441 passed 8 November 2002. It states in part;
Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999, and all the relevant statements of its President,

Recalling also its resolution 1382 (2001) of 29 November 2001 and its intention to implement it fully,

Recognizing the threat Iraq’s non-compliance with Council resolutions and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security,

Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area,

Further recalling that its resolution 687 (1991) imposed obligations on Iraq as a necessary step for achievement of its stated objective of restoring international peace and security in the area
Please read the whole resolution. It lays out clearly that the authorization to use force passed in 1990 was still in effect.
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      01-10-2007, 04:13 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck335i
AND THAT IS WHY THERE ARE WARS ALL THE TIME ON THIS PLANET, every country see it as they fit, from ganeil personal belief, it is sad to see extremist are not only in other countries, these wars will never stop...
Who would you have decide how a sovereign nation behaves?
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      01-10-2007, 04:37 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil
Who would you have decide how a sovereign nation behaves?
I see you're happy with us policing the world...therefore, do not be surprised when the 9-11 happens again in some other form.
If we kept it to ourselves and minded our own business...like China for example, we would have been much better off, and much safer...like China for example...
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      01-10-2007, 04:40 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil
Yes, my world view is based on reality while you seem to be content to wallow in ignorance. I am glad you are quitting. Your ignorant statements simply confused the issue.

Have a good day!

For anyone else who may be following the thread, here is a link to UNSCR 1441 passed 8 November 2002. It states in part;
Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999, and all the relevant statements of its President,

Recalling also its resolution 1382 (2001) of 29 November 2001 and its intention to implement it fully,

Recognizing the threat Iraq’s non-compliance with Council resolutions and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security,

Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area,

Further recalling that its resolution 687 (1991) imposed obligations on Iraq as a necessary step for achievement of its stated objective of restoring international peace and security in the area
Please read the whole resolution. It lays out clearly that the authorization to use force passed in 1990 was still in effect.
Exactly!
Basically saying:
Since the USA guarantees this (in bold above) and since we're all pressured by the USA ("you're either with us or against us"), then...

It has been proven that the US guarantees were wrong...as everyone but Britain suspected, but the USA never appologized for destroying a sovereign country and killing 500,000+ people...
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      01-10-2007, 04:54 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil
Who would you have decide how a sovereign nation behaves?
anybody who does not think or react like you do, people like you is the reason why 9-1-1 occur again and again
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      01-10-2007, 05:08 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck335i
anybody who does not think or react like you do, people like you is the reason why 9-1-1 occur again and again
I am not sure...but maybe 90%+ of the world is crazy (for opposing Bush's views) and Bush and people that think the same way are the only smart ones
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      01-10-2007, 06:51 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i
Exactly!
Basically saying:
Since the USA guarantees this (in bold above) and since we're all pressured by the USA ("you're either with us or against us"), then...

It has been proven that the US guarantees were wrong...as everyone but Britain suspected, but the USA never appologized for destroying a sovereign country and killing 500,000+ people...
Neither the UN nor the member nations relied on the US to determine the status of Iraq's compliance. In the case of the UN, they formed teams of inspectors and the other member nations had their own intelligence services.

Your notion that 500,000 people have died as a result of this war is ridiculous and the study that stated such has been completely discredited.
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      01-10-2007, 06:53 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck335i
anybody who does not think or react like you do, people like you is the reason why 9-1-1 occur again and again
Do you even read the statements you write?
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      01-10-2007, 07:19 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil
Do you even read the statements you write?
what is your problem ganeil?
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      01-10-2007, 07:32 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil
Neither the UN nor the member nations relied on the US to determine the status of Iraq's compliance. In the case of the UN, they formed teams of inspectors and the other member nations had their own intelligence services.

Your notion that 500,000 people have died as a result of this war is ridiculous and the study that stated such has been completely discredited.
You're right, it is estimated that 650,000 people were killed since the beginning of the War!!!

As for the inspectors...correct -- Hans Blix came out of Iraq a few weeks before the Cowboys got in with the clear statement -- WE FOUND NOTHING!!!
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      01-10-2007, 08:07 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i
You're right, it is estimated that 650,000 people were killed since the beginning of the War!!!
The Lancet study you are citing has been completely discredited. Most legitimate organizations estimate between 50-150,000 Iraqis have died as a result of the war.

Quote:
As for the inspectors...correct -- Hans Blix came out of Iraq a few weeks before the Cowboys got in with the clear statement -- WE FOUND NOTHING!!!
Really?

Here is an excerpt from his report, dated 27 Jan 2003;
Iraq has declared that it only produced VX on a pilot scale, just a few tonnes and that the quality was poor and the product unstable. Consequently, it was said, that the agent was never weaponised. Iraq said that the small quantity of agent remaining after the Gulf War was unilaterally destroyed in the summer of 1991.



UNMOVIC, however, has information that conflicts with this account. There are indications that Iraq had worked on the problem of purity and stabilization and that more had been achieved than has been declared. Indeed, even one of the documents provided by Iraq indicates that the purity of the agent, at least in laboratory production, was higher than declared.



There are also indications that the agent was weaponised. In addition, there are questions to be answered concerning the fate of the VX precursor chemicals, which Iraq states were lost during bombing in the Gulf War or were unilaterally destroyed by Iraq.



I would now like to turn to the so-called “Air Force document” that I have discussed with the Council before. This document was originally found by an UNSCOM inspector in a safe in Iraqi Air Force Headquarters in 1998 and taken from her by Iraqi minders. It gives an account of the expenditure of bombs, including chemical bombs, by Iraq in the Iraq-Iran War. I am encouraged by the fact that Iraq has now provided this document to UNMOVIC.



The document indicates that 13,000 chemical bombs were dropped by the Iraqi Air Force between 1983 and 1988, while Iraq has declared that 19,500 bombs were consumed during this period. Thus, there is a discrepancy of 6,500 bombs. The amount of chemical agent in these bombs would be in the order of about 1,000 tonnes. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, we must assume that these quantities are now unaccounted for.



The discovery of a number of 122 mm chemical rocket warheads in a bunker at a storage depot 170 km southwest of Baghdad was much publicized. This was a relatively new bunker and therefore the rockets must have been moved there in the past few years, at a time when Iraq should not have had such munitions.
Do you never tire of making statements that are so easily disproved?
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      01-10-2007, 08:09 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck335i
what is your problem ganeil?
People who think, "Can't we just all get along," is a rational response to the world's problems.
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      01-10-2007, 08:14 PM   #58
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dai foi jma dmande da quel cauter di cervo qua ti ta ser, si tan na un...
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      01-10-2007, 08:24 PM   #59
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ganeil, Keep up the good fight, but you'll never convince them that anything our country does is right.
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      01-10-2007, 08:44 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by boyce'06 330i
ganeil, Keep up the good fight, but you'll never convince them that anything our country does is right.
COUNTRY and Government are two VERY, VERY different things!
This Gov't so far has done little right -- polls show that, World respect shows that, and we will see in the future when a trillion plus $$$ wasted get accounted (pay-back).

Again, ganeil is an intelligent guy, and I enjoy talking to him, but one thing from an intel. guy -- you're telling me that all that WMD (nuke, Bio, Chem...) just disappeared??? I mean, the traces of that crap stay in the place of origin for decades, you cannot just move it or bury it. What is going on here???

boyce, if we really did (Bush 1, Clinton, W...) right, we would not be where we are now!

WHerever I traveled (and I traveled a lot) people told me that they love Americans, but when you mention Bush, the story is different. Unfortunately, more, and more people (including yourself) associate Bush with American people...
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      01-10-2007, 08:52 PM   #61
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someone should put bush on trail...
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      01-10-2007, 09:05 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by La Verdad
someone should put bush on trail...

For what?
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      01-10-2007, 09:24 PM   #63
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uhhhh where to start...ok I'm ready. For causing the deaths of thousands of Iraqis by destabilizing Iraq. The world community has been documenting the widespread death and suffering that continue in Iraq. Americans may not understand this since American television has abandoned its responsibilities. Particularly appalling was the use of condemned weapons like cluster bombs which continue to kill noncombatants, especially children. The Pentagon has admitted that about one in 10 missiles missed their target. Add to that the reports in the New York Times, the New Yorker, and the foreign press, of truckloads of dismembered bodies of women and children, of far greater casualties than the Gulf War, of U.S. troops killing civilians and journalists, sometimes indiscriminately, even firing upon ambulances. The protesters shot by U.S. troops in Fallujah were mostly schoolboys. The war would be about oil and not terrorism. This seems accurate considering the care taken to protect the Iraqi Oil Ministry offices, while allowing the sacking of hospitals and museums. Iraqis go without water and electricity but the oil wells are running. Bush’s corporate crony Bechtel is busy already building pipelines, and companies like ExxonMobil will be major players. Bush violated international law by invading Iraq. Bush held prisoners without formal charges and without legal representation. Bush lied about the connection between Iraq and 911(there was no connection, and if there was, there is not one single legal document in existence that shows the link). Bush lied about the weapons of mass destruction. Bush has created the largest deficit in the history of the United States, in a war that will ultimately be lost. (US puppet governments have a long history of falling apart i.e. Iran, Vietnam. These are indisputable 'facts' not liberal propaganda. Many of you may remember that there was a surplus budget under the Clinton administration. That's completely gone. The list goes on and on. As an American, I understand the difficulty that comes from having to face the facts and come to terms with a man we call President. However, if it is time for people to start standing trial, I think it is time for President Bush.
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      01-10-2007, 09:29 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i
COUNTRY and Government are two VERY, VERY different things!
This Gov't so far has done little right -- polls show that, World respect shows that, and we will see in the future when a trillion plus $$$ wasted get accounted (pay-back).
Not when it is a representative government.

Why are you obsessed with what people in other countries think about us?

Quote:
Again, ganeil is an intelligent guy, and I enjoy talking to him, but one thing from an intel. guy -- you're telling me that all that WMD (nuke, Bio, Chem...) just disappeared??? I mean, the traces of that crap stay in the place of origin for decades, you cannot just move it or bury it. What is going on here???
You mean like the 500+ artillery shells filled with sarin and mustard that we have found?
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      01-10-2007, 09:36 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Verdad
uhhhh where to start...ok I'm ready. For causing the deaths of thousands of Iraqis by destabilizing Iraq. The world community has been documenting the widespread death and suffering that continue in Iraq. Americans may not understand this since American television has abandoned its responsibilities. Particularly appalling was the use of condemned weapons like cluster bombs which continue to kill noncombatants, especially children. The Pentagon has admitted that about one in 10 missiles missed their target. Add to that the reports in the New York Times, the New Yorker, and the foreign press, of truckloads of dismembered bodies of women and children, of far greater casualties than the Gulf War, of U.S. troops killing civilians and journalists, sometimes indiscriminately, even firing upon ambulances. The protesters shot by U.S. troops in Fallujah were mostly schoolboys. The war would be about oil and not terrorism. This seems accurate considering the care taken to protect the Iraqi Oil Ministry offices, while allowing the sacking of hospitals and museums. Iraqis go without water and electricity but the oil wells are running. Bush’s corporate crony Bechtel is busy already building pipelines, and companies like ExxonMobil will be major players. Bush violated international law by invading Iraq. Bush held prisoners without formal charges and without legal representation. Bush lied about the connection between Iraq and 911(there was no connection, and if there was, there is not one single legal document in existence that shows the link). Bush lied about the weapons of mass destruction. Bush has created the largest deficit in the history of the United States, in a war that will ultimately be lost. (US puppet governments have a long history of falling apart i.e. Iran, Vietnam. These are indisputable 'facts' not liberal propaganda. Many of you may remember that there was a surplus budget under the Clinton administration. That's completely gone. The list goes on and on. As an American, I understand the difficulty that comes from having to face the facts and come to terms with a man we call President. However, if it is time for people to start standing trial, I think it is time for President Bush.
I am not sure you would recognize a fact if it ran you over.

The President NEVER (I defy you to show me on reference otherwise) said or implied that Iraq was connected to 9/11.

The US has not used any weapons that are banned by international law. (Cluster bombs, depleted uranium, etc... are NOT banned by any treaty to which the US is a signatory.)

Again what is the charge? Specfics please, statute, treaty, etc... violated? When? Where? Against whom?
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      01-10-2007, 09:39 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by boyce'06 330i
ganeil, Keep up the good fight, but you'll never convince them that anything our country does is right.
I have no illusions of convincing them of anything. I just want to show others that the information they base their opinions on is inaccurate.
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