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      07-26-2010, 07:59 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graider View Post
spot on. i'm sure when c&d posts outrageous number of a porsche 911 or cayman, these guys will take them as true numbers because they are porches. LOL
HA! Wow!!! That is funnnneeeee... porches, hahaha, yeah never heard that before. Yeah... geezzzz I can not stop laughing, Just WOW man, you are one talented mofo.

I questioned the times because they appear to be suspect, whether factual or not. I'm not going to back down for questioning something out the ordinary. If the M is this fast great.
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      07-26-2010, 08:13 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
You should clarify "exaggerated". The choices are not that many. Let's cover all of them.

-This car was an intentionally under rated "press only" car
-All ZCP M3s are underrated
-Their instruments are bad or miscalibrated
-The outright lied

Or of course the most obvious one is:

-The M3 ZCP has numerous performance enhancements, each minor but when combined and combined with good conditions (road surface and weather) yielded some results just outside the best non ZCP times seen thus far.

So what does exaggerated mean exactly?



Sorry buddy this is not about me. It is you who spends way too much time in BMW forums talking about the superiority of Porsche. Regardless of the nice things you say about BMW the time spent doing the former is really quite odd. Pot, kettle, black. I'm totally secure about my own automotive decisions and understand where the cars sits in any sort of heirarchies, performance, prestige, etc., etc. And I still love 997s...



Ugh, read the thread. In post #32 I provide the link to an extensive database of performance results. I think that alone goes a very long way toward showing the legitimacy of the numbers from C&D. Now granted those are just about the performance side. I think we've beat to death the question of "bang for the buck" with the M3. The obvious comparison is indeed vs the 997 S.

Of course we will all recall your strong defense of outlier type of numbers for the 997 S when the debate was M3 vs. 997 S performance. You can't have it both ways.
You can believe what you wish. You kicked off this flurry with your sarcasm regarding your theory about the M's bang for the buck. Now you want to insult me with your explaination as to why you think I frequent this forum. I own a BMW, so where is the confusion.

I argue some of the performance numbers here and elsewhere because sometimes they don't make complete sense.
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      07-26-2010, 08:24 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
93 octane would have given at least 20hp out of those 28... remember, you are in California where the highest octane allowed by law is 91
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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Are you certain that is CA law? Not questioning, just clarifying.
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
It is a CARB regulation that have penalties if violated, so it is law.
We have 100 octane "race gas" in Brentwood, 10 minutes away from my office. If it was illegal, why would they sell it. Definitely not illegal. I don't think 76 sells "illegal gas"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael F View Post
I dont think it as simple as putting in 100 octane and dyno. I remember pg follow some steps before he dynod and maybe that why other people dont get same thing.

I follow pg's posts for a while. Only 22hp gain and only 8 ft/lbs of torque from pg's aa tune. I think thats modest esp because other tuners say they get 40hp. Maybe you mean its way out of line because its too low? I looked and saw that King Tut got 20hp gain and also 8 ft/lbs of torque from his aa tune, basically identical to pg. So at least King Tut was able to duplicate it. So what was wrong with pg's results? I am thinking of going the same route as pg so i'm curious about this.

Also curious if you download pg's dyno files to see if anything was wrong?
I think even a 20hp gain from switching to a higher octane is reason enough to put it in your car. Hands down.
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      07-26-2010, 08:39 PM   #92
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was there any doubt?
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      07-26-2010, 08:40 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
Only reason the RS5 is AWD is because it's based on a freaking FWD platform, and nobody would buy a FWD RS5, therefore AWD was a necessity .
AWD is a necessity to it handles all types of conditions, dry, rain, snow etc.
up to 85% drive force available to the rear and 70% to the front if needed. you should read some more about quattro and awd, ignorance is bliss my friend.
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      07-26-2010, 08:58 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaykay View Post
We have 100 octane "race gas" in Brentwood, 10 minutes away from my office. If it was illegal, why would they sell it. Definitely not illegal. I don't think 76 sells "illegal gas"
Race gas is exempt from CARB.
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      07-26-2010, 09:05 PM   #95
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Are You Saying that AWD Works Great in All Conditions Even with Summer Tires?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3 View Post
AWD is a necessity to it handles all types of conditions, dry, rain, snow etc.
up to 85% drive force available to the rear and 70% to the front if needed. you should read some more about quattro and awd, ignorance is bliss my friend.
I'd expect both an M3 and an RS5 to not be much use in snow and ice on summer tires.

The C&D article talks about the weight distribution of the RS5 and all the technical tricks Audi does to overcome it's effects, but says that near the limit "the chassis still acts more like a front driver".

Do you have an RS5? Why did you buy an M3 if the Audi is so much better?
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      07-26-2010, 09:09 PM   #96
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This is M3Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
I own a BMW, so where is the confusion.
But not an M3, and I don't recall you expressing any interest in buying one; so, why are you here?
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      07-26-2010, 09:20 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calintexas View Post
I'd expect both an M3 and an RS5 to not be much use in snow and ice on summer tires.

The C&D article talks about the weight distribution of the RS5 and all the technical tricks Audi does to overcome it's effects, but says that near the limit "the chassis still acts more like a front driver".

Do you have an RS5? Why did you buy an M3 if the Audi is so much better?
You think that by owning an M3 i think it's the best car around. Funny stuff.
Is the RS5 available yet? Not quite, but i will have one when it comes out that's for sure. The M3 is a capable car, fun at times but not as enjoyable as quattro overall imo.
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      07-26-2010, 09:35 PM   #98
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oh yea suck it audi
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      07-26-2010, 09:59 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgothar View Post
I think it's fair to say that both C & D and R & T have it BAD for BMW in general.

That being said GO M3!!
Add Motor Trend to your list - they (like C&D and R&T) also achieved 0-60 in 4.1 and quarter mile a tad slower at 12.6...
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      07-26-2010, 10:06 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3 View Post
AWD is a necessity to it handles all types of conditions, dry, rain, snow etc.
up to 85% drive force available to the rear and 70% to the front if needed. you should read some more about quattro and awd, ignorance is bliss my friend.
First off I don't think its very smart to be racing in the rain or snow, or whatever your dreaming awd will do for you. Second remember the X5m and X6m? They have one of the most awd systems on the market torque vectoring and all. And when it comes to driving in the snow the M3 could go anywhere the RS5 could go, b/c in the snow ground clearance matters more then how many wheels are powered. A 2 wheel drive explorer will leave the RS5 far behind when the rs5bottoms out and gets stuck in 4-5 inches of snow. and the X5m will kill the rs5 in snow.
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      07-26-2010, 10:34 PM   #101
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The Cts-V pulled on both cars. You can see at the very last few secs of the video. But the M3 is just a better car period
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      07-26-2010, 11:00 PM   #102
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it was almost as if they were pressured to have the rs5. it isnt much better than the rs4 yet so expensive. the r8 serves the supercar purpose so this car is abit in lost in transition?
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      07-26-2010, 11:27 PM   #103
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I'm diggin' the red Audi RS5!
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      07-26-2010, 11:39 PM   #104
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Didn't Think That at All

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3 View Post
You think that by owning an M3 i think it's the best car around. Funny stuff.
Is the RS5 available yet? Not quite, but i will have one when it comes out that's for sure. The M3 is a capable car, fun at times but not as enjoyable as quattro overall imo.
The question was and still is: Why did you buy an M3 rather than an Audi given that you say you prefer quattro?
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      07-27-2010, 12:05 AM   #105
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He said it in the post you quoted. The RS5 isn't available yet.
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      07-27-2010, 12:17 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatpanda View Post
it was almost as if they were pressured to have the rs5. it isnt much better than the rs4 yet so expensive. the r8 serves the supercar purpose so this car is abit in lost in transition?
Honestly, I think it was just to get Audi firmly into the GT market. Nothing else in their lineup does that, even a little. The old RS6 wasn't, as it was a sedan. The RS6 definitely wasn't and both HANDILY outperformed even the M5. I'm sure on a track the M3 and RS4 would have taken the RS6 simply because they're quite a bit more nimble. The RS5 was build with a different goal in mind. No it won't destroy an RS4 but it is better car and I think it fills Audi's need for a GT quite well.

But that's just my opinion.
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      07-27-2010, 12:19 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
He said it in the post you quoted. The RS5 isn't available yet.
His assertion is that Audi's and quattro is better. I'm sure there are lots of Audi's that are available that he could buy rather than an M3.
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      07-27-2010, 12:31 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calintexas View Post
His assertion is that Audi's and quattro is better. I'm sure there are lots of Audi's that are available that he could buy rather than an M3.
I didn't take it as him saying Audi was better, just that Quattro is better than RWD. But the RS5 has a different version of Quattro than what's available on say, an A3, and that makes a huge difference.

Maybe he just prefers AWD to RWD. The only thing I can argue for Quattro, having never owned anything from VWAG with either 4Motion or Quattro, is that is has to have some measure of tangible benefit since it was banned in every form of racing Audi has ever used it in.

But I can see where he's coming from.
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      07-27-2010, 12:34 AM   #109
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I find those times to be quite impressive. I also have no reason to doubt them.

I've spent many years racing different cars at the track (my last was a 811rwhp Turbo 03 Cobra), and it is so easy to get different times with the same car.

The biggest factor is obviously the driver, but weather conditions also play a huge factor. It is quite easy to see a .5 second difference in 1/4 times between the two. You can also take the same car and same driver to two different tracks and get two different times.

Now, do I think 0-60 in 3.9 is the norm for the M3...not at all, I believe it to be the exception...about 4.3 seconds seems to be the norm. In this case everything seemed to work perfectly and the result is the outstanding times you see in this mag. R&T just tested the RS5 and got a 0-60 of 4.3 and a 12.7 @ 108 in the 1/4...once again, different driver and different conditions.

Also, I highly doubt it was a rolling start of any kind to get those times...typically a rolling start would result in slower times. In order to get the M3 moving quickly the revs must be brought up to around 4000rpm, and then dump the clutch in order to get into the max torque range. A rolling start would have been significantly slower because the driver would not be in the correct torque range.

I feel in this case, since DCT was used, launch control was used in the M3 in order to get that fast of a 1/4 time as well as 0-60. I would be real interested to see what the 60ft time was.

Just my .02 based on my years at the drag strips.
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      07-27-2010, 01:08 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calintexas View Post
The question was and still is: Why did you buy an M3 rather than an Audi given that you say you prefer quattro?
He's a troll that's why.

AWD vs. RWD is a matter of preference, in March/April when I was looking at the 997.2 C2S, I liked the C2S 10x more than the C4S.

I've driven over a dozen Audi's in the past year, including the new V10 R8 and while their Quattro system is great and all, I find it to be totally unnecessary unless it's raining, snowing out there. Besides, a RWD car is more fun around the track, you can really play with it and have some serious fun.

The RS5 should annihilate the M3, Audi is behind, they always have been. They make great cars, but are always a step back from MB/BMW. Like the recent EVO article on the RS5 stated, great engine, great transmission but they just don't work well together. Complete disconnect.
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