BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
Racewerkz Engineering
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-26-2010, 03:35 PM   #67
erio
Captain
 
erio's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 JB M3, 2012 GTR
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: GA

Posts: 767
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golgothar View Post
I think it's fair to say that both C & D and R & T have it BAD for BMW in general.

That being said GO M3!!
It sure does seem that way
erio is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 03:46 PM   #68
srt8/bmw
Private First Class
 
Drives: 08 335xi coupe-Space Gray
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: michigan

Posts: 190
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by erio View Post
I bet the cts is a blast to drive. However, I agree that it should be more fair to compare it with the m5 given it's brute power, but it's performance numbers don't match up. We are talking a 142hp and 253 lb torque difference with the m3. A supercharged M3 with proper suspension changes would likely far outperform the caddi.

I guess thats one way to look at it. Or--its the fastest production sedan ever built...thats another way. Held the "ring" record for sedans until the Panemara recently bested it.

So, a $70K car (LOADED) (mine was $67 with EVERY option)that will beat any car in its class that Audi, Benz, or BMW has to offer, by a wide margin, for substantially less money. Seriously, a stock sedan that can run 12.1 119 in the 1/4 like mine did? And you want to say it under achieves??

Don't get me wrong..I love my BMW and am looking at both the new 550 and will look at the new M5 as well. But its a little weird to title this "M3 beats CTS-V in a Shootout" when the V is a significantly faster car on a course or straight line.

Yes-you can go modify the M3 as you say, but they are modifying the V too and it just gets faster, and not for a lot of cash either. there are Vs running around out there with 700rwhp.

anyway--thats my humble opinion.
__________________
335xi-JB3, UR DPs, code-3 fmic, BMS filter,borla catback,11.96@116my other rides:

2012 Jeep SRT 12.9 stock
2009 CTS-V Born October/08 12.1@119-stock(sold)
2007 charger srt8 (yes, it is purple-one of 300(sold)
srt8/bmw is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 03:54 PM   #69
erio
Captain
 
erio's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 JB M3, 2012 GTR
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: GA

Posts: 767
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by srt8/bmw View Post
I guess thats one way to look at it. Or--its the fastest production sedan ever built...thats another way. Held the "ring" record for sedans until the Panemara recently bested it.

So, a $70K car (LOADED) (mine was $67 with EVERY option)that will beat any car in its class that Audi, Benz, or BMW has to offer, by a wide margin, for substantially less money. Seriously, a stock sedan that can run 12.1 119 in the 1/4 like mine did? And you want to say it under achieves??

Don't get me wrong..I love my BMW and am looking at both the new 550 and will look at the new M5 as well. But its a little weird to title this "M3 beats CTS-V in a Shootout" when the V is a significantly faster car on a course or straight line.

Yes-you can go modify the M3 as you say, but they are modifying the V too and it just gets faster, and not for a lot of cash either. there are Vs running around out there with 700rwhp.

anyway--thats my humble opinion.
I should first add that I didn't actually title the thread that way. I initially only posted that there was going to be a comparison based on a C+D video. The moderators edited my post, including the title. I wish they would make a notation of that at the bottom as they do when we edit threads.

You also realize that the cts is supercharged and that modding the m3 to give the engine similar power would only put it on a similar level power wise (it still wouldn't produce near as much torque). It's not the same a modding a supercharged caddi and comparing to a NA engine. Big difference.

I am not bashing the CTS. Like I said, I bet it's a blast to drive and as you said it has the numbers to proove it. I'm just referring to this particular comparison. I was suprised the m3 held it's own with the cts. I know some of the mags can be biased, but I felt confident that the caddi would walk all over the m3. I also realize that this m3 did perform exceptionally well compared to some of the previous reviews.

Last edited by erio; 07-26-2010 at 06:25 PM.
erio is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 04:12 PM   #70
positiveions
Lieutenant General
 
positiveions's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 MKV JETTA 2.5 & E90 M3 :)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: La Verne, CA

Posts: 10,347
iTrader: (1)

Send a message via MSN to positiveions Send a message via Yahoo to positiveions
Quote:
Originally Posted by jml View Post
I didn't know the RS5 was headed for the US in 2012
http://www.worldcarfans.com/11007262...r-52-starts-at
I just read this on WoRLDCARFANS
positiveions is offline   Lebanon
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 04:13 PM   #71
srt8/bmw
Private First Class
 
Drives: 08 335xi coupe-Space Gray
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: michigan

Posts: 190
iTrader: (0)

oh--no.... my apologies. Everything you said was spot on--I certainly didn't think you were bashing any of the cars.

And your right--for the M3 to achieve what it did with substantially less "output' is amazing.

There are already S/Cd M3s out there--and they will out run the V.

I do feel like the V is quite an accomplishment for the american car makers--to build a sedan that can perform the way it does in more than just a straight line--thats really a new level for any american car maker.

It really is unique--it has magnetic ride control so on the freeway with family or clients--it has an luxury element to it. But it can run a sub 8 minute ring time and low 12 1/4 mile, and 0-60 in under 4...all for $70K. Thats all I was saying..it is kind of in a different class because unlike many of its peers, it actually can tackle the twisties.
__________________
335xi-JB3, UR DPs, code-3 fmic, BMS filter,borla catback,11.96@116my other rides:

2012 Jeep SRT 12.9 stock
2009 CTS-V Born October/08 12.1@119-stock(sold)
2007 charger srt8 (yes, it is purple-one of 300(sold)
srt8/bmw is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 04:18 PM   #72
bonwit904
Private First Class
 
bonwit904's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 335xi, 2011 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NJ

Posts: 130
iTrader: (0)

Happy to see the result...although I think both the other vehicles are formidable competitors - and would love to drive all of them (although I would still take the M3 home). The RS5 in particular is a very good looking car, and for those of us in colder climates the AWD is definitely an advantage.

Is it just me or does 3.9 to 60 seem a little... ambitious...for an M3?

I have seen 4.1 before which I thought was on the really quick side, but 3.9 is really fast

I had an M6 before my 2011 M3 and to be honest - out on the highway pulling in any gear (granted the gear changes were not very smooth) the M6 felt more ballsy than the M3 and that had nowhere near a 3.9 time to 60.
bonwit904 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 04:22 PM   #73
MonteCarloM3
Banned
 
MonteCarloM3's Avatar
 
Drives: a shitty M3
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Uranus

Posts: 577
iTrader: (0)

wow, what a shock C&D chose the M3...could these guys be any more predictable.
most of their readers are bimmer fans so it makes sense i suppose.
RS5 is the best looker imo. shouldn't really compare m3 to RS5 anyways. should compare a 335xi to RS5, that's two AWD cars comparing their approach to all wheel drive.
MonteCarloM3 is offline   Uzbekistan
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 04:36 PM   #74
Just_me
Lieutenant
 
Drives: RWD
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sweden

Posts: 566
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3 View Post
wow, what a shock C&D chose the M3...could these guys be any more predictable.
most of their readers are bimmer fans so it makes sense i suppose.
Still the new 5-series came on last place in their recent comparison.
German Sportauto have a test between M3 and RS5 and guess what, the M3 won the comparison. Another M3 victory.

Quote:
shouldn't really compare m3 to RS5 anyways. should compare a 335xi to RS5, that's two AWD cars comparing their approach to all wheel drive.
335xi vs RS5. Noway, in Europe M3 is cheaper than a RS5. Both RS5 and M3 is in a different league vs 335i. RS5 was developed to attract buyers who consider a M3.


Perhaps M3 is a better performance car than RS5 afterall.
__________________
BMW M3 V8 CSL petition. You want BMW to build a M3 CSL?
Then sign your name here:


http://www.petitiononline.com/m3csl/petition.html
Just_me is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 04:42 PM   #75
erio
Captain
 
erio's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 JB M3, 2012 GTR
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: GA

Posts: 767
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
Still the new 5-series came on last place in their recent comparison.
German Sportauto have a test between M3 and RS5 and guess what, the M3 won the comparison. Another M3 victory.



335xi vs RS5. Noway, in Europe M3 is cheaper than a RS5. Both RS5 and M3 is in a different league vs 335i. RS5 was developed to attract buyers who consider a M3.


Perhaps M3 is a better performance car than RS5 afterall.

I know this is way off topic, but don't get me started on the new 5 series. They are transforming this thing into a freaking Lexus. First the x5m and x6m and now this....It's all about business these days. The car is beautiful with plenty of power, but NO THANKS. I test drove both the 535 and 550 with dynamic handling packages (yes I tested it in all settings). Steering feel with the new electric assistance was numb and had little feedback compared with the previous hydraulic setup. The suspension felt more unpredictable with more body roll and the car has become too big. It just didn't feel well balanced. Give me an e60 with a sport package any day. In my opinion, Car and driver was spot on in their review.

Last edited by erio; 07-26-2010 at 05:02 PM.
erio is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 04:46 PM   #76
erio
Captain
 
erio's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 JB M3, 2012 GTR
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: GA

Posts: 767
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eatrach73 View Post
Yes it's coming with an expected base price of around 70,000.
erio is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 05:00 PM   #77
ILMOSTRO
ilmostro
 
Drives: BMW 135i
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: California

Posts: 172
iTrader: (0)

The M3 being the oldest of the 3 models and still getting the W is great! It means Cadillac and Audi have had more time to try and copy the M3 but still can't get it just right. haha
__________________
ILMOSTRO is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 05:56 PM   #78
Technic
Lieutenant General
 
Technic's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 E92 M3, 2014 528i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

Posts: 10,568
iTrader: (15)

Garage List
2004 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaykay View Post
Check this out Quality, 28 horsepower dyno gain from 100 octane. Pretty amazing if you ask me.

As soon as I'm done with my break-in it's 100 octane time...

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...0&postcount=19
93 octane would have given at least 20hp out of those 28... remember, you are in California where the highest octane allowed by law is 91
Technic is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 05:59 PM   #79
gthal
Colonel
 
gthal's Avatar
 
Drives: C63 coupe
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

Posts: 2,172
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 M3  [3.37]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3 View Post
wow, what a shock C&D chose the M3...could these guys be any more predictable.
most of their readers are bimmer fans so it makes sense i suppose.
I love the conspiracy theory. C&D actually addresses it all of the time. If you look at the advertising space, GM would spend far more $$ in C&D than BMW would. Maybe, and this is a stretch, just maybe, they actually think BMWs are the better cars in their class? A couple of issues ago, C&D noted that more of their editors spent their own money on BMWs than any other car. Yes, I know there is a conspiracy theory there too

Yes they are predictable but, IMO, it's cause they actually think BMW gets it right. If they were voting based on ad $$, the Caddy would have won. Enough of the conspiracy theory already.
gthal is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 06:11 PM   #80
MonteCarloM3
Banned
 
MonteCarloM3's Avatar
 
Drives: a shitty M3
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Uranus

Posts: 577
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
335xi vs RS5. Noway, in Europe M3 is cheaper than a RS5. Both RS5 and M3 is in a different league vs 335i. RS5 was developed to attract buyers who consider a M3.
RS5 is in a class of its own. unless bmw has come up with an AWD sports coupe no-one has heard about that is actually driveable in all conditions.
bmw make good cars, they are just not as advanced as audi for all weather conditions. take a drive in your m3 (you have one?) in the pouring rain and heavy snow, let's see how well you do against my rs5. unless you never get rain or snow where you live haha
MonteCarloM3 is offline   Uzbekistan
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 06:14 PM   #81
06mb325
Private
 
Drives: Monaco Blue E90
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Texas

Posts: 61
iTrader: (0)

The caddy should be compared to the 5, not the 3.
06mb325 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 06:32 PM   #82
Turbo>NA
xbox gamertag: HuGeBluEmOnKeY
 
Turbo>NA's Avatar
 
Drives: M-Sport LCI
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SoCal (626)

Posts: 3,762
iTrader: (2)

Wtf? 0-60 in 3.9?

Thats what the C63 does...


Someone explain this
__________________

E92 335i alpine white | black dokota | auto | zpp | zsp | heated | iPod
- ltbmw : vorsteiner : linea corsa : h&r : k&n : e92-lighting : expectalot-vinyl -
--GONE--
Turbo>NA is offline   Armenia
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 06:54 PM   #83
graider
Colonel
 
graider's Avatar
 
Drives: py/kiwi e46 m3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: toronto

Posts: 2,408
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3 View Post
ok bmw fanboi, i said 335xi not 335i. do you know the difference?
RS5 is in a class of its own. unless bmw has come up with an AWD sports coupe no-one has heard about that is actually driveable in all conditions.
bmw make good cars, they are just not as advanced as audi for all weather conditions. take a drive in your m3 (you have one?) in the pouring rain and heavy snow, let's see how well you do against my rs5. unless you never get rain or snow where you live haha
i wouldn't call awd advanced. my crv and mdx has one too, lol

i live in toronto (way more snow than BC) and the m3 does fine for the last two years. I commute 80miles daily as well. remember awd doesn't do jack for you when it come to stopping. so I rather have something that doesn't allow me to be over confident go so fast in snow/rain then can't stop.

the most advanced awd has to be the gtr. not only it does wonder in fault weather, it can help that 3800+ lbs chassis go very fast around the track too. the veyron 4100lbs and 1000hp is slower around the track than the gtr. veyron is audi.

Last edited by graider; 07-26-2010 at 06:59 PM.
graider is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 07:12 PM   #84
swamp2
Major General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 9,574
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
93 octane would have given at least 20hp out of those 28... remember, you are in California where the highest octane allowed by law is 91
Are you certain that is CA law? Not questioning, just clarifying.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 07:21 PM   #85
swamp2
Major General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 9,574
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
As far as I know, swamp, it is considered official that for ZCP cars the EDC Sport Mode was revised to be active instead of fixed, and MDM DSC mode is revised to allow more slippage/yaw before intervening. The details of the EDC change have been discussed with specifics but I don't remember the numbers. I am not sure if anything specific is known about the MDM changes as far as quantitative figures go.
I am actually surprised that even that much detail would be released by BMW. They are much more likely to just use some imprecise flowery language and say "improved MDM for greater driving dynamics"

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Other than this, there are no other changes. So, assuming this acceleration test and prior such tests were run with launch control on, the DSC change would not be a factor (LC requires DSC off, and can not be used in MDM mode). Not sure if that was the case though. EDC changes may or may not have been a factor either - depends on whether this test and previous tests were done in Sport mode or not (my guess is that previously they were typically done in normal mode).

Recent changes to the M-DCT software could in theory also play a role in acceleration times, though there's nothing to suggest that this is necessarily the case, and no way to know for certain.
It can only really be speculation. But let me add some other comments.

-EDC = comfort should be theoretically best for drag times - a softer rear suspension with less damping. The effect would be small either way.
-Even though launch control requries DSC off I do believe that the clutch, throttle and rear wheel spin is somewhat managed by computer during launch. I could be mistaken.
-DCT software is almost for sure different in this car than the prior best performing DCT cars in our "database". Again probably small differences but each one can add up.
-Depending on what other magazines show, I'm certainly prepared to admit that these numbers might be outliers in some sense. Obviously, I'm not prepared to admit C&D cheated, had bad equipment or lied.

On a loosely related note I sure would like to get the revised DSC software... Maybe a vendor can pull this off? IIRC your vehicle software has to be uploaded in its entirety.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 07:30 PM   #86
MonteCarloM3
Banned
 
MonteCarloM3's Avatar
 
Drives: a shitty M3
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Uranus

Posts: 577
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by graider View Post
i wouldn't call awd advanced. my crv and mdx has one too, lol

i live in toronto (way more snow than BC) and the m3 does fine for the last two years. I commute 80miles daily as well. remember awd doesn't do jack for you when it come to stopping. so I rather have something that doesn't allow me to be over confident go so fast in snow/rain then can't stop.

the most advanced awd has to be the gtr. not only it does wonder in fault weather, it can help that 3800+ lbs chassis go very fast around the track too. the veyron 4100lbs and 1000hp is slower around the track than the gtr. veyron is audi.
what awd cars have you owned? just a crv and mdx? well then you know all about quattro awd obviously. sorry bub, the m3 is a great summer/dry pavement car. end of story.
MonteCarloM3 is offline   Uzbekistan
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 07:33 PM   #87
Technic
Lieutenant General
 
Technic's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 E92 M3, 2014 528i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

Posts: 10,568
iTrader: (15)

Garage List
2004 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Are you certain that is CA law? Not questioning, just clarifying.
It is a CARB regulation that have penalties if violated, so it is law.
Technic is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-26-2010, 07:38 PM   #88
elp_jc
Brigadier General
 
Drives: .
Join Date: May 2008
Location: .

Posts: 4,910
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3 View Post
RS5 is in a class of its own. unless bmw has come up with an AWD sports coupe no-one has heard about that is actually driveable in all conditions.
Only reason the RS5 is AWD is because it's based on a freaking FWD platform, and nobody would buy a FWD RS5, therefore AWD was a necessity .
elp_jc is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:42 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST