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      07-19-2010, 11:45 AM   #1
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Unsafe lane change violation?

Just wanted to get your opinions on my situation. I plan on fighting it and not sure if I"ll do it by showing up to court or do it by written declaration. Here's what happened and let me hear your thoughts.

After leaving IKEA I was heading towards the intersection and was in the very right lane (4 lanes total..2 left lanes are turning lanes). I was still about 5 cars back in the right lane stopped at a light when I realized I needed to move over 2 lanes in order to get to the turning lane.

If there were a lot of cars where I wasn't going to be able to change lanes, I had planned to stay in my lane where it eventually turned into a right turn lane only...then bust a U turn, etc..

Light turns green and I let off the brake and start creeping forward (10mph) to let the cars to my left pass and possible give me an openign to move to my left. I see an opening and i signal (briefly) and get in front of a van who was at least 2 car lengths back so I didn't cut him off. Then i check my mirror again and this time I see no car and I can't be sure whether or not I signaled again to move the second time. Regardless I was going less than 15mph since it was a red light by the time I moved over to the turning lane.

At the light I see a police car opposite of me waiting to turn left from his side. After I make a left and I go down and stop at another light before the freeway onramp. I see the same police car (dodge charger) behind me. I knew he was going to pull me over and I expected no front plate and tint ticket.

When he did pull me over he asked for license, registration, and proof of insurance. I didnt have my most insurance card on me in my wallet. The one I had was good through april of this year. He said I made an unsafe lane change and wrote me up for:

22107vc turn signal, 16028(a) no proof of insurance, 26708 tinted windows, and 52xx No front plate. All are infractions and the the tint and front plate ones are correctable.

I'm not worried about the insurance violation b/c I can just show them my proof of insurance I court I believe. The fix a tickets I'll look for someone that has a pd buddy to help me out. However, it was the turn signal ticket that irked me.

I'm wondering if something vague and up to the officer's discretion of whether or not it was safe or unsafe..whether the judge usually makes a decision in favor of the officer or to me? He wrote down I was going 25mph and there's no way I was going near that speed since I was trying to creep over 2 lanes.

I felt as though he wanted to pull me over for the 2 fix a tickets but knowing that they are correctable, my opinion is that he wrote me up for the turn signal since that would have a better chance to "stick". I'm not the type that would try to fight something if I knew I was at fault such as speeding, etc..

Anyways, sorry for the long post. I guess it was also me blowing off some steam.

I included a screenshot of the intersection i'm talking about. I took a few diff street views and other pictures to prepare for my argument. I'm the yellow circle and the cop is the black circle.
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      07-19-2010, 12:01 PM   #2
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get the fix-it tickets taken off..and the rest will go away with the wind when you go to court.... unsafe won't stick unless your magistrate/district is REALLY hurting for cash.
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      07-19-2010, 12:36 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakazoid View Post
get the fix-it tickets taken off..and the rest will go away with the wind when you go to court.... unsafe won't stick unless your magistrate/district is REALLY hurting for cash.
well...CA is in a shitter so they do need the money. damn
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      07-19-2010, 12:48 PM   #4
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Get yourself a gomini license plate holder and you won't have to worry about hurting your bumper or fix it tickets. Easily removable as well!
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      07-19-2010, 01:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joonsup View Post
well...CA is in a shitter so they do need the money. damn
ya I've been hearing some rumors about CA. (fines, taxes, etc etc) due to their state... definitely fight it, but unlike an immediate toss-out out here, there's a chance that one might actually stick.
If you have an option to show up..show up (Rather than mailing in any sort of grievances)
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      07-19-2010, 01:38 PM   #6
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I think that in most (if not all) states it is illegal to change lanes within a certain yardage before/after an intersection. For instance 100 yards before/50 yards after, etc. That probobly coupled with your weak signalling is probobly why you got popped. I know that depending on where you are in the country that law gets enforced differently, but I do know it exists.

It's there to save people that might be turning right on red or pedestrians from getting hit because a car wasn't following their existing course as they entered the intersection.
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      07-19-2010, 02:27 PM   #7
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use the satellite picture and take some of your own to show with traffic in front of you the officer could not see whether you had you turn signal on or off. All he probably saw was you making the lane change and the fact that the Van may be slowed as you passed in front of him.

Be prepare that officer may stay you move from each lane where the white line is solid, you not allow to change lanes where there is a solid line, that is what they put then the last 100 ft leading up to the light.

anyway if you can show the officer did not have clear line of sight then he could not determine whether you did in fact use the turn signal.
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      07-19-2010, 02:39 PM   #8
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Thanks for the suggestions. I know that I did not cross a solid white line when changing lanes. I will keep in mind to use the "clear line of sight" explanation when the time comes. I honestly do not believe he did have a clear line of site. I guess it'll be up to the judge.

In regards to the changing lanes in the last 100 yards, I would agree with that if I was trying to beat the red light and what not. However, I was moving at most 15mph and changed lanes safely (in my mind) with plenty of space before I came to a stop. The rear of my car was not crossing the lane I came from, etc..

Hopefully the 7 or 8 googlemap pics that I captured (bird's eye view, street view, view from where the officer was) helps my case.
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      07-19-2010, 03:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joonsup View Post
In regards to the changing lanes in the last 100 yards, I would agree with that if I was trying to beat the red light and what not. However, I was moving at most 15mph and changed lanes safely (in my mind) with plenty of space before I came to a stop. The rear of my car was not crossing the lane I came from, etc..
Unfortunatly laws are usually seen as black and white... you either violated it or you didn't (assuming that it is a law that pertains to this situation). It'll be up to the judge and your explanation to get the violation reduced/eliminated. Might do yourself a favor though and at least see if you can dig up the pertanent info regarding lane changes close to intersections so you can be prepaired for your trial date.

Good luck!
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      07-19-2010, 03:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feyd View Post
Unfortunatly laws are usually seen as black and white... you either violated it or you didn't (assuming that it is a law that pertains to this situation). It'll be up to the judge and your explanation to get the violation reduced/eliminated. Might do yourself a favor though and at least see if you can dig up the pertanent info regarding lane changes close to intersections so you can be prepaired for your trial date.

Good luck!
will do. thanks!
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      07-20-2010, 09:28 AM   #11
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Hey Nick,

I thought someone we both know has ticket assassin letters.

Hint: You go visit him often.
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      07-20-2010, 09:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feyd View Post
Unfortunatly laws are usually seen as black and white... you either violated it or you didn't (assuming that it is a law that pertains to this situation). It'll be up to the judge and your explanation to get the violation reduced/eliminated. Might do yourself a favor though and at least see if you can dig up the pertanent info regarding lane changes close to intersections so you can be prepaired for your trial date.

Good luck!
+1
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      07-20-2010, 10:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC 335i View Post
Hey Nick,

I thought someone we both know has ticket assassin letters.

Hint: You go visit him often.
lol. hmmm i wonder who. i'll get in touch with him once he is back in town. Thanks John.
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      07-20-2010, 12:05 PM   #14
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do not solely rely on google maps, go and take pictures yourself, especially form the officers view point, with those pictures you can show the judge that the officer did not have clear line of sight so there was no way for him to determine if in fact the turn signal was one at the time.

The best thing to do is get the officer to state what the conditions were at the time how many cars were there and traffic condition, if he remember, i highly doubt that there was a van that slowed and allowed you to change lane which also indicated you signal since why else would the van slow and allow you in front of them.

The more you can get the officer to say that helps your case the better, if you design your questions correctly he will not know you going for the line of sight angle.
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      07-20-2010, 12:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
do not solely rely on google maps, go and take pictures yourself, especially form the officers view point, with those pictures you can show the judge that the officer did not have clear line of sight so there was no way for him to determine if in fact the turn signal was one at the time.

The best thing to do is get the officer to state what the conditions were at the time how many cars were there and traffic condition, if he remember, i highly doubt that there was a van that slowed and allowed you to change lane which also indicated you signal since why else would the van slow and allow you in front of them.

The more you can get the officer to say that helps your case the better, if you design your questions correctly he will not know you going for the line of sight angle.
That's probably a good idea. It can't hurt to have actual pictures. I'll go back to that area this weekend and take some pictures to have on top of the google street view.
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      07-20-2010, 03:49 PM   #16
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Go to CA.gov and search: "vehicle code 22107" and you will know what you are accused of doing wrong.
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      07-20-2010, 03:56 PM   #17
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You have to wait 6 seconds before changing into another lane.
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      07-20-2010, 06:25 PM   #18
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22107. No person shall turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway until such movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after the giving of an appropriate signal in the manner provided in this chapter in the event any other vehicle may be affected by the movement.


Amended Ch. 1996, Stats. 1959. Effective September 18, 1959.

I guess it all depends on what the officer thought was reasonably safe when he saw me change lanes. I know for a fact i use the turn signal. However I didn't leave it clicked on the entire time. I got maybe 2 or 3 clicks in max since I felt as though there was enough distance to not even use the signal but out of habit I turned mine on briefly.

However, on the second lane change I cannot be certain that I used the signal, so maybe that is why he pulled me over? There were no cars to get in front of during the second lane change but I guess the law is the law. I just feel as though the "reasonable safe" portion of the vehicle code should take precedence over the actual signaling, but then again i dont write the laws and as a resident of CA I should abide by them.

It just amazes me that he felt the need to change course of his intended direction while all of this was done traveling at 10-15mph. I'm sure that most police officers would not want to take the time to hand out a citation for something I feel is very petty. Oh well. From now on I will change the setting of my turn signal to the 3 blink option
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      07-20-2010, 07:42 PM   #19
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Dude i work at the Four Seasons and EPA cops are a bunch of Va Jay Jay's. cant stand them
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      07-21-2010, 10:54 AM   #20
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Dude i work at the Four Seasons and EPA cops are a bunch of Va Jay Jay's. cant stand them
lol. i'm guessing b/c it's a rough area, the EPA cops don't let anything slide whatsoever
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      07-21-2010, 11:37 AM   #21
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When you turned in front of the van, did you violate one of the 4 "S"? Did the other driver have to Speed up, Swerve, Slow down, or Stop? If so, you did not do it in a reasonable manner.

Also, look at the details regarding what is required in the chapter regarding signaling.
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      07-21-2010, 02:57 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
When you turned in front of the van, did you violate one of the 4 "S"? Did the other driver have to Speed up, Swerve, Slow down, or Stop? If so, you did not do it in a reasonable manner.

Also, look at the details regarding what is required in the chapter regarding signaling.
I did not violate any of the 4 "S"'s

There was a few car lengths which is why only by habit i clicked the signal a couple times. Had I not signaled and just merged into the lane, the van woujld not have had to slow down, swerve, stop, or speed up.
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