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      07-13-2010, 06:19 PM   #1
Crisp
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M3 vs SS

I thought this thread was funny:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/gen-5-...ss-camaro.html


I look at their threads from time to time since I owned a GTO.

Their excuse is always "for that much $$ I can but a Camaro, put $25k into it and make it so much faster".

Yet, if you tell them "for $5k you can buy a civic, put $25k into it and you will be faster than both cars", I bet they will say "yea but at the end of the day, you're still in a civic.
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      07-13-2010, 06:36 PM   #2
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Rather obvious the Camaro kids don't know what they're talking about.
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      07-13-2010, 06:49 PM   #3
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lol yeah.. it is a LS1 forum. it is hard to keep it unbiased. if you post it here, we will probably talking trash about camaros..
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      07-13-2010, 06:58 PM   #4
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I dont know, the first page has some reasonable posts not the American muscle BS I was expecting.

Post #19
Nobody buys M3s for drag racing and that is not their appeal.

They are really nice cars and I would take a m3 over a 2010 camaro anyday. Already have my drag car.

...and post 20

"...i just couldnt stand the idea of owning a bmw... too many snobs who own them for the image."

Ha those made my day
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      07-13-2010, 07:06 PM   #5
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you should see this post on the second page
Breaking axels with stock tires when running a 13.4 1/4 is pathetic.

I like all the excuses the guy comes up with when he realizes BMW's are slow, and unreliable, pieces of shit.
Feeling shitty about being ripped off is one thing, but then trying to make fun of Corvette, Camaro, and Firebrids is just a scumbag move.
Please notice, the DRIVER of the Corvette FAILED and NOT it's rear axels like your piece of shit BMW.

News Flash Jose':
A ZR1 DESTROYS all BMW's on the "race track" and has ALSO ran 9 second 1/4 mile times with a manual transmission.

Now, go take your bean eating, german humping, american hating ass and run south of the border.


pretty hostile i would say..
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      07-13-2010, 07:10 PM   #6
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The first few posts are fine.

It was funny reading how BMW lacks engineering, lacks people that actually know anything about cars, and lacks enthusiasts that actually work on their own car and tune their cars.
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      07-13-2010, 07:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp View Post
The first few posts are fine.

It was funny reading how BMW lacks engineering, lacks people that actually know anything about cars, and lacks enthusiasts that actually work on their own car and tune their cars.
And they don't get the notion of how a car puts down what it has, especially as it was articulated towards the end with the chat about the torque band being at the high end of the RPM range. I honestly think for many on that forum they just think that you merely look at the HP number and torque number (even when they're not far apart) and then viola, you automatically know which car is faster.

I also don't think they're at all interested in overall handling capabilities of the respective cars. I see why "American muscle" is attractive to those with such a singular range of interests, but I don't understand why it is so widespread. It's as if straightline speed is pretty much the only thing that matters.
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      07-13-2010, 07:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yemenmocha View Post
And they don't get the notion of how a car puts down what it has, especially as it was articulated towards the end with the chat about the torque band being at the high end of the RPM range. I honestly think for many on that forum they just think that you merely look at the HP number and torque number (even when they're not far apart) and then viola, you automatically know which car is faster.

I also don't think they're at all interested in overall handling capabilities of the respective cars. I see why "American muscle" is attractive to those with such a singular range of interests, but I don't understand why it is so widespread. It's as if straightline speed is pretty much the only thing that matters.
The second paragraph of your post hits home for me. My friends swear by straight line speed only and that's all they care about. To each their own I actually agree if they don't care about handling then they made the right choice. They respect the M3 but they prefer the "muscle" even though they can afford the BMW. Oh well, I'll have beers with them but I'll never agree with their taste in cars
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      07-13-2010, 08:53 PM   #9
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"Now, go take your bean eating, german humping, american hating ass and run south of the border."
I think that's crossing the line between being a car enthusiast who loves american made cars and being an ignorant racist. I've been a part of this forum since 07, probably one of the first group to get the e92 m3, I've read thousands of posts, and have never come across one so insulting, is it because people here are more mature? Or more educated?
Personally, I think the second one is more accurate
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      07-13-2010, 09:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinoOrtega View Post
"Now, go take your bean eating, german humping, american hating ass and run south of the border."
I think that's crossing the line between being a car enthusiast who loves american made cars and being an ignorant racist. I've been a part of this forum since 07, probably one of the first group to get the e92 m3, I've read thousands of posts, and have never come across one so insulting, is it because people here are more mature? Or more educated?
Personally, I think the second one is more accurate
To be realistic:

In order to own a civic, you need to achive so much in life.
In order to own a GM car (average, not talking about a ZR1 and such), you need to achieve a bit more than the guy with the civic.

In order to own a German car, you need to achieve more than both of those classes...and so on with more expensive cars.

This is being realistic and speaking about the average population.

Now achievement is generally measured with education and experience.
I guarantee you the people that speak like that racist guy did, lack both of those characteristics.


I also guarantee you that it's not about buying a car and modding it to them because if that was the story, they would all own cheap japonese cars with huge turbos for $10k total. They look up HP/TQ numbers for the cheapest price and end up with American cars. When they say "I own a fast car", it means it's fast in a straight line in perfect conditions with the perfect driver on the perfect day.

BTW. I have owned an Acura CL, GTO, 2 BMW's, so I know what they are talking about and what they are trying to compare.

The GTO was fast, but from a roll because launching was hard as hell. It was almost impossible to do 0-60 under 5.5 seconds. (advertised 4.7 sec)
Even with it's "stiff" suspension, it handled like a boat.
The rotors warped so easily.
The big LS2 6.0 engine couldn't be beat like an M engine can.

Was it "fast" for the price? In a straight line, yes. In turns, you slow down, then take off again once it's straight. Can you compare this car to any other BMW? NO because they are in completely different worlds just like you can't compare an M3 to a 911 GT2, or a 911 GT2 to a Veyron.
All those are relatively fast cars but built for different purposes.
No need to hate on the guy driving a 911 GT2 by saying "you could have bought an M3, spend $30k on it and done circles around the GT2".
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      07-13-2010, 11:03 PM   #11
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Those guys just don't understand. I'm a musclehead and an M3 owner. It's best to explain it in these terms. The M3 has EDC, an on the fly adjustable suspension. The Camaro does not and never will. The M3 has programmable dual clutch transmission. The Camaro does not, but it might get a DCT some time in the distant future, doubtful it will ever be programmable. The M3 alternator disengages when under heavy acceleration. The Camaro does not. The M3 has a programmable throttle control. The Camaro does not and probably never will. The M3 has a button that can be pressed that sets all of these to your desired setting that fits your sport driving style, and with a flick of the button again, you're back in casual driving. The M3 has near perfect 50/50 weight distribution. The Camaro does not and never will. The M3 comes in a 4 door, the Camaro never will. That's what you get for an extra 20k, a car that you can tune on the fly to drive according to your style. That's what separates an M3 from a muscle car. Thats why I own both. My M3 is a sophisticated performance DD, my GT500 is a rip roaring, bucking bull ride of unrefined terror, and I love them both.
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      07-13-2010, 11:47 PM   #12
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I love it when guys trash the BMW's that I own with car cars they don't.

"Oh the ZR1 would crush your M3" ... true, but what did you bring buddy? I say you have no bragging rights with a vehicle unless you are in possession of it.

"well the Space Shuttle would decimate the ZR1........."
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      07-14-2010, 12:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp View Post
In order to own a German car, you need to achieve more than both of those classes...and so on with more expensive cars.
While I don't disagree with you on the majority of the rest of your post, this part is laughable. BMW is the king of cheap leases for entry level "pseudo" luxury, so let's not pretend it's some unattainable "luxury" automaker.
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      07-14-2010, 12:31 AM   #14
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Reminds me of maturation in car performance interest from childhood.

Really young you might meet someone and ask them how fast it goes, as in top speed. That really matters to kids for some reason. Then one day you learn about 0-60 times and such. Maybe as a teenager you hear about quarter mile times and horsepower. Then the development stops there.

I have an in-law who exemplifies this perfectly. He owns a Corvette that is faster than my M3 is probably all respects. He does not know what an apex is. He does not know what heel toe is. He does not know oversteer and understeer. Never been to a DE or driving school. Never been around a track, even as a passenger. But.. but... he knows the HP, 0-60, and quarter mile times for his car.

One last thing. He thinks it is lame that a car would have over 100hp per litre. What a "small" engine! How pathetic.
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      07-14-2010, 11:56 AM   #15
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Quote:
While I don't disagree with you on the majority of the rest of your post, this part is laughable. BMW is the king of cheap leases for entry level "pseudo" luxury, so let's not pretend it's some unattainable "luxury" automaker.
Well I think you guys in the states get some sweet deals on BMW, mine was 126,000USD, no leases here, same price as a Carrera S and a 30k gap between the M and the 335, and there are only 6 e92 M3, while there are more Carrera S.
I guess the term unattainable is relative to where you live, I've seen posts from other guys in Europe who bought the M3 around 200K, the US gets some pretty sweet prices and leases, which make the M more attainable.
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      07-14-2010, 02:00 PM   #16
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with my AA TS e36 M3 I tease SS and GTOs all day.... I dont see what the talk is about... I got a car 10-12 years older then theirs and I made the last SS guy flip out when I was 3 full cars ahead by 70mph.... so whats the big ol' deal!?
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      07-14-2010, 11:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
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with my AA TS e36 M3 I tease SS and GTOs all day.... I dont see what the talk is about... I got a car 10-12 years older then theirs and I made the last SS guy flip out when I was 3 full cars ahead by 70mph.... so whats the big ol' deal!?
Yea but.... "the ZR1 will rip you."
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      07-14-2010, 11:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Yea but.... "the ZR1 will rip you."
Fully AA e36 m3 value = max $18000 brand new ZR1 is 8 times that.
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