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      07-13-2010, 09:52 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinmartin View Post
I do and I believe OC Dealman does as well.

I'll be honest, the paint maintenance/repair does make me a bit nervous.

If only we could put a clear bra on the front...
Why not? I'm havin one put on!
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      07-13-2010, 10:13 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
What makes you say it'll get glossy over time? Washing doesn't do ANYTHING to smooth the paint. Not even a little.

I agree a matte ppf would be ideal to keep it looking like it's supposed to, but disagree that washing will cause problems. I have no experience with the wrap so I can't say if they'll get glossy over time or not.
There is nothing special about FG other than the fact that the clear coat has a dulling agent mixed with it. You are wrong though , assuming that washing the car won't make any difference. Over time, the more you rub the paint , the more it knocks down the rough edges in the clear coat. Eventually giving it a shine, a dull one, but nonetheless , a shine. If you were to color sand the car and the use a coarse cutting polish to a fine cutting polish , you could eventually get a fairly high shine to it. It would never look as good as a regular clear coat , but you could do it. I don't see why its a big deal to sign the waiver. They are only making you aware of what could happen. Its the exact opposite of a normal paint job. Just like a shiny car will eventually get dull , this car will eventually get shiny. The only problem is there is no good way to make it "unshiny" again.
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      07-13-2010, 11:01 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark B. View Post
Why not? I'm havin one put on!
As I understand it, the vast majority of clear bras have a glossy finish - which is fine on a shiny metallic paint, but not on a matte finish.

I called Premier (a top notch clear bra shop) and asked if they had anything for matte finishes. First they said no, then they said they had something called Satin Guard (i think) and that it works on a case by case basis on matte finishes. They had not ever put a film over frozen gray.

That said, I'd def be interested to know if you have info on a film that will match the appearance of the fg. Let us know!
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      07-13-2010, 11:57 AM   #70
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LOL get fucked
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      07-13-2010, 12:18 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckistryke View Post
Repairs to the paint (scratches, dents, etching) must be completed by a BMW trained body shop. Most auto body shop will not be capable of repairing the frozen gray paint.


Hahahahah so they can bend u over
LOL, without even the common courtesy of a reach around.

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      07-13-2010, 12:40 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznick View Post
There is nothing special about FG other than the fact that the clear coat has a dulling agent mixed with it. You are wrong though , assuming that washing the car won't make any difference. Over time, the more you rub the paint , the more it knocks down the rough edges in the clear coat. Eventually giving it a shine, a dull one, but nonetheless , a shine. If you were to color sand the car and the use a coarse cutting polish to a fine cutting polish , you could eventually get a fairly high shine to it. It would never look as good as a regular clear coat , but you could do it. I don't see why its a big deal to sign the waiver. They are only making you aware of what could happen. Its the exact opposite of a normal paint job. Just like a shiny car will eventually get dull , this car will eventually get shiny. The only problem is there is no good way to make it "unshiny" again.
If washing "knocked down the edges" then you'd never have to worry about swirls in your paint since washing the car remove them. It's simply not true. Washing a car, unless you're Magilla Gorilla and putting massive pressure on the paint, should not be an issue.
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      07-13-2010, 01:23 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinmartin View Post
As I understand it, the vast majority of clear bras have a glossy finish - which is fine on a shiny metallic paint, but not on a matte finish.
On that note - rather than a special flat clear coat, why doesn't someone just make a flat clear bra for the whole car? Basically, a transparent matte wrap.
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      07-13-2010, 05:41 PM   #74
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Saw this car at Munich airport and my first thought was that it looks cool. My second thought, after seeing the paint at an angle was that it would be a beast to maintain. Just from being the airport and having hands on it all day you could see what looked like blemishes forming on the surface. As a collector item, cool paint job. I doubt I'd ever buy one for driving around, though.
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      07-13-2010, 06:12 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krozi View Post
Please for the love of God tell me that was a joke.
i dont think so....

some folks dont appreciate the product, thus qualifying the previous statement..

Who would think the first M3 would still be treasured ?? no one but its current owner

lucky b*#@ard!!
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      07-13-2010, 08:04 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
I think it's a brilliant marketing ploy to unload thirty defectively painted M3's.
ROTFLMAO
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      07-14-2010, 01:54 AM   #77
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Waxing it with a standard wax would ruin the finish immediately. Washing it like a normal car wouldn't ruin it immediately but if treated like a standard paint finish, over time, the matte finish will start to burnish. Especially near any raised edges. This should surprise no one who understands physics.

Matte clear bra is available. Like someone said earlier, the best option would be to wrap a standard car in matte clear bra. You could do it over any color. You can remove it when it starts to look like crap. Polyurethane is way more durable than paint.
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      07-14-2010, 03:57 AM   #78
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Folks please stop the absurd comments that the car has no clear coat. Of course it does, just a different clear coat. And of course just like you can repolish a regular clear coat, if any slight burnishing happend to make FG look a bit too gloss you can repair that as well with a very light and careful "polish". This "polish" would be way too aggressive for any clear coat in any sort of decent condition but would be perfect for adjusting the FG. I'd also guess that overall FG would be more durable than a regular gloss color. Small scratches and swirls that happen in a regular clear coat will be nearly invisible in the FG. Matte finishes in most substances are naturally more durable and easier to repair. I'm not guaranteeing that but I do suspect it will be the case. As long as I could find a good matte wax to use I'd love to have FG. The finish is beautiful IMHO.
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      07-14-2010, 04:00 AM   #79
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if i got this, i'd immediately wrap it with shiny SG vinyl, to protect the matte finish
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      07-14-2010, 06:58 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
If washing "knocked down the edges" then you'd never have to worry about swirls in your paint since washing the car remove them. It's simply not true. Washing a car, unless you're Magilla Gorilla and putting massive pressure on the paint, should not be an issue.
With a "regular " shiny paint job , you are scratching the surface EVERY time you wash it. Washing a car sure a hell doesn't remove scratches, it adds them. a polish will take away fine scratches that were put there from washing and daily grind. As I stated, the clear coat on a normal car can be polished back to a high gloss , but a clear coat with a dulling agent can be "redulled". I hope you realize that polishing a car is actually scratching it with a VERY fine cutting agent. Thats why you hear about people burning through their paint with an orbital buffer. It has almost nothing to do with the buffer . It has a lot to do with the polish. But ,if those millions of tiny "scratches" are correctly, itr gives the clear coat its shine. Ive been doing custom paint since I was about 16 yrs old. For about the last 10yrs I have used this technique. Mostly on lower panels on sport bikes. You usually don't want the black or gray on the bottom panels to be shiny. But within a few years , with "normal" washing , those panel do start to "shine" somewhat
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      07-14-2010, 07:08 AM   #81
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This is a panel; on an R6 that I shot. This whole black panel used to be dull. its been rubbed on and then polished somewhat over the past 4 yrs. You can see it now has a dull shine. click on the link below
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      07-14-2010, 07:11 AM   #82
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http://yhst-95252586239475.us-dc1-ed...6239475_2115_0
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      07-14-2010, 07:16 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Folks please stop the absurd comments that the car has no clear coat. Of course it does, just a different clear coat. And of course just like you can repolish a regular clear coat, if any slight burnishing happend to make FG look a bit too gloss you can repair that as well with a very light and careful "polish". This "polish" would be way too aggressive for any clear coat in any sort of decent condition but would be perfect for adjusting the FG. I'd also guess that overall FG would be more durable than a regular gloss color. Small scratches and swirls that happen in a regular clear coat will be nearly invisible in the FG. Matte finishes in most substances are naturally more durable and easier to repair. I'm not guaranteeing that but I do suspect it will be the case. As long as I could find a good matte wax to use I'd love to have FG. The finish is beautiful IMHO.
Exactly correct
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      07-14-2010, 07:18 AM   #84
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http://yhst-95252586239475.us-dc1-ed...75_2115_393623

This is a regular clear coat before being color sanded . Yes you use sandpaper to make it even shinier

Last edited by Reznick; 07-14-2010 at 07:36 AM. Reason: added more info
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      07-14-2010, 08:33 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznick View Post
With a "regular " shiny paint job , you are scratching the surface EVERY time you wash it. Washing a car sure a hell doesn't remove scratches, it adds them. a polish will take away fine scratches that were put there from washing and daily grind. As I stated, the clear coat on a normal car can be polished back to a high gloss , but a clear coat with a dulling agent can be "redulled". I hope you realize that polishing a car is actually scratching it with a VERY fine cutting agent. Thats why you hear about people burning through their paint with an orbital buffer. It has almost nothing to do with the buffer . It has a lot to do with the polish. But ,if those millions of tiny "scratches" are correctly, itr gives the clear coat its shine. Ive been doing custom paint since I was about 16 yrs old. For about the last 10yrs I have used this technique. Mostly on lower panels on sport bikes. You usually don't want the black or gray on the bottom panels to be shiny. But within a few years , with "normal" washing , those panel do start to "shine" somewhat
Normal washing does NOT scratch the paint. Well, it doesn't if you have any clue how to do it correctly. I haven't detailed my car since March and there are no swirls or scratches on the car.

I know exactly what polish does. I've been detailing for almost 20 years. You start with a comparatively rough polish and move to finer and finer polishes until you're doing nothing more than shining the paint. Your last step before polishing should have no abrasive action at all. If there are no abrasives there is no polishing action. Washing is just like that last step, there should be no abrasive action. If your matte finish "shines up" over time your'e doing something very wrong.

Also, orbitals, by their very nature can't burn paint. They don't spin fast enough nor do they spend enough time in one spot to build enough heat to burn paint. You meant a polisher, which is high speed and a basic rotary design instead of an eccentric motion and can very easily cause holograms or worse, burn edges or even flat panels if you're not careful.

Last edited by quality_sound; 07-14-2010 at 01:57 PM.
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      07-14-2010, 10:54 AM   #86
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We had a vinyl wrapped M5 in yesterday and I thought it looked great. It gave the frozen black appearance but is way more durable and in case it's ever damaged, a particular panel can be rewrapped. He said that he paid $3000 for it.
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      07-14-2010, 11:04 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quality_sound View Post
Normal washing does NOT scratch the paint. Well, it doesn't if you have any clue how to do it correctly. I haven't detailed my car since March and there are no swoirls or scratches on the car.

I know exactly what polish does. I've been detailing for almost 20 years. You start with a comparatively rough polish and move to finer and finer polishes until you're doing nothing more than shining the paint. Your last step before polishing should have no abrasive action at all. If there are no abrasives there is no polishing action. Washing is just like that last step, there should be no abrasive action. If your matte finish "shines up" over time your'e doing something very wrong.

Also, orbitals, by their very nature can't burn paint. They don't spin fast enough nor do they spend enough time in one spot to build enough heat to burn paint. You meant a polisher, which is high speed and a basic rotary design instead of an eccentric motion and can very easily cause holograms or worse, burn edges or even flat panels if you're not careful.
I'm not putting your knowledge or detailing in question.There is no way washing is just like the last step of polishing before applying a wax . The simple action of removing dirt off the car NO MATTER HOW MUCH you use a power washer, is going to leave fine scratches ,for everyone, PERIOD!.
Your right about the polishers movement , but wrong about its possible effects.If you're that sure about an "orbital" not burning a clear coat, grab a good abrasive ,slap some on your hood and hold the polisher there for about 5 minutes. Maybe you wouldn't do it with a light polish that you pick up a PeP Boys, but something with even a medium cut to it will scar the clearcoat.
So, as you understand how a polish works, then I still don't see how you can't understand that an abrasive CAN dull shiny paint but also leave a "shine" on a dull surface. If you think you're not scratching your car EVERY time you wash it, your nuts....

Last edited by Reznick; 07-14-2010 at 11:16 AM. Reason: added more
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      07-14-2010, 11:05 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
Not to start a pissfest but ANYTHING that touches the paint including water, dust as you drive, etc. abrades the paint including washing -- no matter how you do it. The idea is to minimize the abrasion... aka scratching, wear, flattening of the paint, etc.

That being said FG is going to be an SOB to maintain if the car isn't in a glass enclosed display in a museum.
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