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      06-26-2010, 07:36 AM   #1
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Performance - E93 M3 'Vert = 675 lbs vs. 335xi coupe

Ok, here I go yet again about E93 performance - and this is not intended as an M3 vs. 335i thread - because as you'll see, I'm comparing an apple to an orange...

That being said, I've seen some posts by people considering the E93 M3 Vert, which is met by a lot of responses saying "oh, if you're getting the convertible, you're better off with the E93 335i."

My answer: If you want a convertible with four seats and the best quality/performance bang for your buck, the M3 is definitely the right choice.

Why?

Aside from Fastestlaps.com times (where the E93 M3 consistently outlaps the 335i/335xi couple/sedan (despite fact they weigh about 450 lbs less than the E93 M3), several weeks ago I had an "experience" (eh ehhm, not a race) with an E92 335xi coupe. The 335xi was in front of me (one driver, no passengers) and I was in my 'vert with my wife - so I had at least a 675 lb disadvantage (based upon what I could see of the other driver - he looked a little shorter than me and probably 20-25 lbs lighter than me - so perhaps close to a 700 lb disadvantage.

Anyway - he's in front of me and floors it on the straightaway just before getting onto a highway onramp. Given the tightness of the turn, I assume he backed off on the throttle at least a little bit for the curve - but obviously there's no way I could know how much. Of course, the caveman in me can't resist (my wife's thinking, "oh brother, here we go again") - once again, I'm not racing, just giving my car some gas to see how it compares...

On the tight curve of the onramp, with a lot but still less than full throttle, I easily maintained the same speed through the tight curve, despite the 675 lb+ weight disadvantage and despite the fact he got an initial jump on me...

Just before exiting the turn, there is no doubt he floored it, given the sudden increase in volume and pitch of his exhaust note. At the same spot (I'm in the lane right behind him, I also floor it (about a second after he does). On the straightaway, we were both accelerating at the same rate initially, but after a few seconds (as my rpm's were climbing and my horsepower increasing) I slowly began overtaking him. Once it was clear that he couldn't outrun me anymore, he moved over to the right lane.

I pulled up next to him and asked if he had done any mods to his car - were both at about 65 mph, and I have my top down, with my wife in the line of sight between us - he indicated he couldn't hear me - so we just gave a and moved on - he was a good sport about it - I give him credit for trying...

Assuming the 335xi was pure stock, I think that was a darn good showing for the Convertible M3, despite a huge weight disadvantage, both in terms of handling and straight-line speed. Now just imagine what would have happened had it been a 335i/335xi convertible with a woman in the other car at the same, "skinny" weight as my wife... Aside from purchase cost, insurance cost and fuel economy, M3 'vert clearly superior performance over 335 convertible (and not marginal like some people assume)...
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      06-26-2010, 12:00 PM   #2
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There is like 100 hp more for the M3, and at three digits speed it counts a lot....plus the 335i was awd with the associated hp loss.
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      06-26-2010, 12:35 PM   #3
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I own a 335xi coupe, but had the wonderful opportunity to drive a e93 M3 a couple months ago. In stock form, your anecdotal impression sounds about right. A tuned 335xi coupe on the other hand would probably be a little different story (under 100 mph).

The vert did seem a little bulky to me, but that is to be expected. I would say a tuned 335xi enjoys a certain "quickness" factor from the turbo which provides a nice little rush of adrenaline at typical public road speeds which was not so evident in the M3.

That being said, I am still enthralled by the sound of the V8 motor, the DCT and the steering response and dynamics of the M3. Wonderful piece of automotive engineering. I would trade my 335xi for an M3 in a heart beat (but I would go for the e92/90).
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      06-26-2010, 01:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingray23 View Post
any articles or vids on the M3 convertible showing performance driving and numbers? curious
Go to Fastestlaps.com and search for "E93" then choose M3.

Edmunds and Car and Drivers' online webistes show 0-60 at 4.6, quarter mile at 13.0-13.1 at 109 mph.

Not sure about videos...
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      06-26-2010, 04:22 PM   #5
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Im one of those that typically suggests a 335 convertible over an M3.

This is strictly "my opinion" so dont take offense... For me a convertible = cruising to enjoy scenery, sun, wind in the hair etc... lol. That being said you will never take full advantage of that screaming engine in the M3 and this is why the power band of the 335 is extremely well suited for the cruising style of a convertible.

This doesn't mean someone in a convertible will never rev beyond 5k but probably way less often than than someone who purchases a coupe or 4 door. In fact I always see our M3's at the track so many do track their M's.

If I were to buy a convertible I would personally pick the 335 over the M3. Again ... this is just my opinion.
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      06-28-2010, 03:51 AM   #6
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I would rather have the sound of a V8 M3 in a convertible
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      06-28-2010, 09:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Montreal View Post
Im one of those that typically suggests a 335 convertible over an M3.

...

That being said you will never take full advantage of that screaming engine in the M3 and this is why the power band of the 335 is extremely well suited for the cruising style of a convertible.

....

If I were to buy a convertible I would personally pick the 335 over the M3. Again ... this is just my opinion.
One potential problem with your point of view: have you actually done the comparison yourself?

The thing is, almost no one who actually drives a 335i and M3 convertible back-to-back will actually prefer the 335i. And I think that's the point that us convertible owners try to emphasize. It's not about what seems like it would be the best choice based on what you think a convertible should do, because frankly the M3 convertible does what no other (true four seat, so I'm not counting the 911 S or Turbo here) converible on the market can do.

Quote:
This doesn't mean someone in a convertible will never rev beyond 5k but probably way less often than than someone who purchases a coupe or 4 door.
I really doubt that is true, and I suspect a poll among M3 owners on this forum at least would show close to 100% drive the car hard as frequently as they can. I know I do, and I know some others on the forum with verts do as well. Granted, this says nothing of E93 M3 owners who are not on this forum.

Quote:
In fact I always see our M3's at the track so many do track their M's.
Polls have shown less than 10% as I recall it. And that's for people who are actually enthusiastic enough to come on this forum. When you figure in all the M3 owners who don't, it's probably closer to 2% or 3%.
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      06-28-2010, 11:06 AM   #8
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i don't agree. the whole point of the vert is to have the v8 with your roof down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Montreal View Post
Im one of those that typically suggests a 335 convertible over an M3.

This is strictly "my opinion" so dont take offense... For me a convertible = cruising to enjoy scenery, sun, wind in the hair etc... lol. That being said you will never take full advantage of that screaming engine in the M3 and this is why the power band of the 335 is extremely well suited for the cruising style of a convertible.

This doesn't mean someone in a convertible will never rev beyond 5k but probably way less often than than someone who purchases a coupe or 4 door. In fact I always see our M3's at the track so many do track their M's.

If I were to buy a convertible I would personally pick the 335 over the M3. Again ... this is just my opinion.
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      06-28-2010, 12:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Montreal View Post
Im one of those that typically suggests a 335 convertible over an M3.

This is strictly "my opinion" so dont take offense... For me a convertible = cruising to enjoy scenery, sun, wind in the hair etc... lol. That being said you will never take full advantage of that screaming engine in the M3 and this is why the power band of the 335 is extremely well suited for the cruising style of a convertible.

This doesn't mean someone in a convertible will never rev beyond 5k but probably way less often than than someone who purchases a coupe or 4 door. In fact I always see our M3's at the track so many do track their M's.

If I were to buy a convertible I would personally pick the 335 over the M3. Again ... this is just my opinion.
The owners of these cars vehemently disagree with your opinion:
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      06-28-2010, 01:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poleposition View Post
The owners of these cars vehemently disagree with your opinion:
LOL ... How coincidental that you show all these beautiful exotic cars that are convertibles... I was just at Calabogie with Ferrari Club of America and I saw many an exotic... A LOT of them buy them for looks and don't drive them the way they were meant to be driven.

Oh yes... The odd one may push it but it's hard to find that odd one. Not one exotic passed me at Calabogie and I SUCKed there since it was my first time and had no instructor for the lines. I have a nice vid of me passing 5 or 6 exotics and the only car passing me was a MAserati MC12 and some T-rex's.

The people that buy those buy it for show and the rare rare one actually drives it over 50% of its potential.

Again... We all have opinions but for this thread to even be here its due to the fact that many would agree with my perspective as well... In the end it's your hard earned cash and don't regret the choice you made.

Peace out

** edit to add links**

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=400690 Videos
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=399640 PICS of cars there
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      06-28-2010, 03:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Montreal View Post
Again... We all have opinions but for this thread to even be here its due to the fact that many would agree with my perspective as well...
I do agree with you 100% there.

But like I said before, a great deal of these opinions are based on a complete lack of firsthand experience in addition to a personal bias (the psychology of which has been discussed plenty of times elsewhere and needn't be rehashed here ). Us owner's are typically happy invite you unwashed masses to change your opinion and be less ignorant at any time it becomes prudent for you. Since you have missed this particular opportunity to do so, we hope to catch you more open-minded the next time round. Or, just go get a 30 minute test drive so you can experience the utter black-and-white difference between the two (HINT: same black-and-white difference between the coupe and sedan versions of each car.).
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      06-28-2010, 06:06 PM   #12
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i own a heavy fat-a$$ convertible with "only" 280ish hp, and i'm pretty sure i run it harder than 95% of the owners of the coupe version of it...
some people enjoy "high"-performance cars AND top-down / wind-in-your-hair motoring, and just like the OP i believe the 2 are quite compatible...
As many of you guys mentioned before, it's really hard to enjoy 100% of the M3 performance on an open road without risking at least a ticket, if not more... so what's the big deal with sacrificing 0.2 sec (i think that's close to what it is) from 0-60, a little less cornering ability, a little more weight... i'm pretty confident that i can keep up with a coupe version of my car on an public road (driver being equal of course) just like a E93 could probably keep up with a E90 / E92... not all drivers have the balls to go all out on a public road (= with curves, hills, cliffs, curbs... not 1/4 mile race at the stop light or high-speed chase on a straight hwy), where the differences between the vert and coupe would really show...

Cheers

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      06-28-2010, 06:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchM3dreamer View Post
i own a heavy fat-a$$ convertible with "only" 280ish hp, and i'm pretty sure i run it harder than 95% of the owners of the coupe version of it...
some people enjoy "high"-performance cars AND top-down / wind-in-your-hair motoring, and just like the OP i believe the 2 are quite compatible...
As many of you guys mentioned before, it's really hard to enjoy 100% of the M3 performance on an open road without risking at least a ticket, if not more... so what's the big deal with sacrificing 0.2 sec (i think that's close to what it is) from 0-60, a little less cornering ability, a little more weight... i'm pretty confident that i can keep up with a coupe version of my car on an public road (driver being equal of course) just like a E93 could probably keep up with a E90 / E92... not all drivers have the balls to go all out on a public road, where the differences between the vert and coupe would really show...

Cheers
True - but by the same token a good driver in a 328i could keep up with an M3 on a public road with traffic restrictions and speed limits unless the M3 driver is willing to risk his licence/health.
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      06-28-2010, 06:35 PM   #14
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I definitely fall into the camp of those who drive the vert hard any chance I can safely do so - I'm married with kids and my job doesn't give me enough time to go to the track - I truly get the best of all worlds with little compromise on performance - I certainly get a very large performance advantage over a 335i vert as shown by my OP - the car gives a rush of acceleration which, even after owning car for 2 years still has not gotten old - esp when I hold a gear to 8k + rpm!!! And which I do fairly often.

No 335 vert for this guy!
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