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      09-05-2005, 12:06 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC 330i
Blaming ANYBODY right now is not helping the victims. Blaming the vicitms for not getting out of New Orleans, or blaming Bush for not reacting sooner is not helping. There is time for that later.

There is time for that later, sounds like something Bush would say.

Your right about this!
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      09-05-2005, 12:47 PM   #68
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I agree that this isnt a time for us to go around and point fingers, BUT.. we rely on our govt to protect and to serve. And right now im sure 90% of those ppl feel that the govt did not follow through. Can you all just put yourself in their shoes.. Imagine watching your baby.. maybe a 5 week old infant, or a 3 yr old toddler, STARVING. Or your elderly parent being left to rot on a highway. Im sorry, but i cannot even being to comprehend what these ppl are going through. I, myself could not go on w/ life watching my infant die infront of me. .. If i was in their situation w/ no money, food, water, house, clothing..etc. Yes i would steal anything i had to to survive. And the whole time, id be wondering where the hell is the help?? 5 days is disappointing and no matter if you voted for bush or not, 5 days is TOO LONG!
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      09-05-2005, 01:41 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by MonacoBlueNJ
I think I just got dumber by reading this post.
#1-Kanye or any other entertainer sound like complete morons whenever they open their mouths about politics. No one wants to hear them speak about anything except music or acting or whatever they do; they have no credibility in any other areas.

#2-Bush-bashers have the right idea: Bush is not capable of the presidency because he is NOT CONSERVATIVE ENOUGH. 8,000 people pour over the borders every day and use our medical facilities and schools and we all pay for-the gardeners, landscapers, busboys and day workers aren't paying taxes. There is virtually no manufacturing going on in the US anymore. We fight wars on prime time TV and don't ever finish a job. And, worst of all he entertains these accusations of racism(Kanye) and other rediculous claims(Sheehan).

#3- Its not Bush's fault that NO is below sea level. It is also not his fault that the people of NO are acting like complete savages, animals, children, whatever you want to call them. Both the local and state governments dropped the ball on this hurricane. It was their responsibility to respond first.
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      09-05-2005, 02:11 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BellasBmw
I agree that this isnt a time for us to go around and point fingers, BUT.. we rely on our govt to protect and to serve. And right now im sure 90% of those ppl feel that the govt did not follow through. Can you all just put yourself in their shoes.. Imagine watching your baby.. maybe a 5 week old infant, or a 3 yr old toddler, STARVING. Or your elderly parent being left to rot on a highway. Im sorry, but i cannot even being to comprehend what these ppl are going through. I, myself could not go on w/ life watching my infant die infront of me. .. If i was in their situation w/ no money, food, water, house, clothing..etc. Yes i would steal anything i had to to survive. And the whole time, id be wondering where the hell is the help?? 5 days is disappointing and no matter if you voted for bush or not, 5 days is TOO LONG!
Government occurs on different levels...read the Constitution. As a social studies teacher, it makes me very sad to realize how many people know nothing at all about the way government operates.
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      09-05-2005, 02:40 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottz5
There is time for that later, sounds like something Bush would say.

Your right about this!
For someone who once supported the president with your vote you sure are down on him now.
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      09-05-2005, 02:57 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wish1
For someone who once supported the president with your vote you sure are down on him now.
Well havent u watched all the reports of bush's rating approval dropping left and right.
Lots of ppl no longer support bush due to his lack of leadership..I think the last report i saw was 34% believe he is doing the right thing in iraq, and like 66% said they no longer support the war in iraq, and its time we start pulling troops out.

However, i was agaisnt him from day 1 in 2000 lol.
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      09-05-2005, 02:59 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlueNJ
Government occurs on different levels...read the Constitution. As a social studies teacher, it makes me very sad to realize how many people know nothing at all about the way government operates.
Ok im not afraid to admit that i do not know AS much as a social studies teacher..etc. BUT there is no excuse for ppl to starve in a CITY, in the UNITED STATES. All i have to say is that something should have been done sooner.. .so im assuming you think the govt is handling this situation properly? So 5 days is a reasonable time to wait for help?... geez.
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      09-05-2005, 03:15 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BellasBmw
Well havent u watched all the reports of bush's rating approval dropping left and right.
Lots of ppl no longer support bush due to his lack of leadership..I think the last report i saw was 34% believe he is doing the right thing in iraq, and like 66% said they no longer support the war in iraq, and its time we start pulling troops out.

However, i was agaisnt him from day 1 in 2000 lol.
I think that speaks more to the lack of resolve on the part of the American people with respect to defeating our enemies than it does the president's performance.
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      09-05-2005, 04:47 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BellasBmw
Ok im not afraid to admit that i do not know AS much as a social studies teacher..etc. BUT there is no excuse for ppl to starve in a CITY, in the UNITED STATES. All i have to say is that something should have been done sooner.. .so im assuming you think the govt is handling this situation properly? So 5 days is a reasonable time to wait for help?... geez.
I was simply commenting on the lack of clarity in your post. Government occurs on different levels(local, state, federal). I am ASSUMING that when you say "government" you really mean federal government. In a case like this, a localized disaster, the local and state governments should be the first and MAIN responders to the situation. Yes, there are interstate matters down there that the federal government has the right and obligation to interject itself into. However, the federal government should not be the ones you are all pointing the finger at. New Orleans was not prepared-simple as that.

I don't mean to pick on you, Bella, but it seems to be a common thing for everyone to blame Bush when he really has little to do with any of this. Do you really think he wants to see people starve? There are huge logistical challenges to overcome when putting together a relief effort like this.
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      09-05-2005, 05:48 PM   #76
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The people of Texas are a blessing right now, opening their hearts and doors and hotel rooms and . . .

And I saw a "famous" real American out there with all those other ones, who shows some real compassion despite his previous antics. They tried to interview Sean Penn, but he didn't have time, he needed to get his boat back out there to rescue people. Not safe in his BelAir home, but out there in the muck picking souls out of the water and bringing them to higher ground.
No, he shouldn't be treated any differently than any other person who does this "for a living" I just respect that he took action on his own, obviously putting his surplus resources to good use.
5 days, how many YEARS have children been dying around the world for lack of a few grains of wheat or rice? In our world of excess (yes, I'm guilty as any other on this board) with my high-priced autos and bikes, but they're all so "necessary" to my life. My kids and my belly are always full, we have never known the hunger of even a single day without food, nevermind watching family dies slowly, painfully, miserably in a desert that just happened to miss this year's rains. It rips at my heart, and I try to ease the pain a bit by sending small donations since high school to organizations that are better than me at walking the walk instead of just talking the talk.
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      09-05-2005, 06:56 PM   #77
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      09-05-2005, 07:29 PM   #78
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that is very stupid link, because one was written by the AP and the other by the AFP.
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      09-05-2005, 09:52 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki
What Kanye did was pathetic. If he wants to say things like that, he should put it in his music, not say it during a telethon. It was completely not the right thing to do during a time like this. He is going off ranting about the president, like Bush could do anything about it. People need to begin to understand that the president is not who runs this country, he can only do what everyone else in Washington wants to do, so blame the government, but don't blame one person. And who the hell is Kanye to complain about racism and black people's needs in a time like this anyway? EVERYONE is suffering in New Orleans right now, but in his little rant he seems to only think black people are the ones suffering. He's blaming others for being racist, but I think he needs to take a look at himself. He seems to have a lot of hatred and racism inside of him, and he let it out at the one of the worst possible moments. His new CD is not as good as his last one, btw.

I have to agree w/ you here. The last thing Kanye should be doing is promoting ethnic tension, times are hard enough for everyone in one way or another as it is already. I guess too many people find that it's too idealistic, too good to be true to understand that once you break the skin the blood ALWAYS bleeds RED. We're all one big commuinity, all human beings, w/ the same wants, desires, etc. It may be that a few people here and there in various branches of goverment do in fact hold something against a certain group of people, but you're missing the big part of the picture if that's your focus, there are people dying and in need here, and those that WANT help are the ones who should recieve it. As for all those shooting, they'll get theirs.
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      09-06-2005, 04:40 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki
What Kanye did was pathetic. If he wants to say things like that, he should put it in his music, not say it during a telethon. It was completely not the right thing to do during a time like this.
He is right though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki
And who the hell is Kanye to complain about racism
Why not? He was just giving his opinion which just so happens to be right. And he is a respected black man who has experienced racism in his lifetime. I would say that gives him all the right in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki
His new CD is not as good as his last one, btw.
His new CD is absolutely brillient. Definatly one of the most creative artists out there. You probably dont listen to a lot of hip-hop, otherwise you would understand how different his album is compared to other mainstream hip-hop artists.
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      09-06-2005, 08:53 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurupt1811
He is right though.


Why not? He was just giving his opinion which just so happens to be right. And he is a respected black man who has experienced racism in his lifetime. I would say that gives him all the right in the world.


His new CD is absolutely brillient. Definatly one of the most creative artists out there. You probably dont listen to a lot of hip-hop, otherwise you would understand how different his album is compared to other mainstream hip-hop artists.
Hes totally free to speak his mind, but the timing and place wasnt appropriate. It was a fundraiser to help the victims, its just going to add fuel to the fire. I think he should have expressed his mind in some other kind of fashion.

Plus.. its all about tupac!
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      09-06-2005, 10:33 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurupt1811
He is right though.
I didn't say I disagreed with him.
Quote:
Why not? He was just giving his opinion which just so happens to be right. And he is a respected black man who has experienced racism in his lifetime. I would say that gives him all the right in the world.
You took what I said out of context.
Quote:
His new CD is absolutely brillient. Definatly one of the most creative artists out there. You probably dont listen to a lot of hip-hop, otherwise you would understand how different his album is compared to other mainstream hip-hop artists.
Last time I checked, someone could have an opinion on a CD without being told that they couldn't possibly feel that way if they actually listened to that type of music. Maybe you should check the thread about what song you're listening to you and will see that far before this bullshit, I said I just got the new Kanye CD. His music is much better than any other crap that is out now, I didn't say it sucked, I said it isn't as good as his last CD. I kind of just said that as a little joke at the end anyway.
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      09-06-2005, 01:27 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BellasBmw
Plus.. its all about tupac!
I think I'm in love...
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      09-06-2005, 01:40 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki
Last time I checked, someone could have an opinion on a CD without being told that they couldn't possibly feel that way if they actually listened to that type of music. Maybe you should check the thread about what song you're listening to you and will see that far before this bullshit, I said I just got the new Kanye CD. His music is much better than any other crap that is out now, I didn't say it sucked, I said it isn't as good as his last CD. I kind of just said that as a little joke at the end anyway.
Sorry, I wasnt trying to bite your head off or anything, I just find Late Registration to be one of the most creative albums I have heard in awhile, even more than College Dropout! I mean it was co-produced with the guy who produced Fiona Apple's album for god sakes! If you're saying lyrically its not as good, then I can maybe see your point, but musically? Come on!
BTW, my favorite tracks on the album are Heard 'Em Say, Touch the Sky, Gold Digger, We Major, Hey Mama, and Gone.
Kanye West is the MAN!
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      09-06-2005, 03:45 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlueNJ
Government occurs on different levels...read the Constitution. As a social studies teacher, it makes me very sad to realize how many people know nothing at all about the way government operates.
I am a teacher also! Your right, but after 9/11 changes in home land sec. took place to aviod crap like this.
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      09-06-2005, 03:47 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wish1
For someone who once supported the president with your vote you sure are down on him now.
They were both worthless IMO. Dumb ass rich white guys!
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      09-06-2005, 04:49 PM   #87
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Wow, I can't believe the Racism and Ignorance in some of these posts. I really respect this group of people over at e90post and appreciate sharing ideas, even in this screwed up way.

I am truly shocked by scottz5's last post though. scottz5 seems like one of the biggest supporters of respect on these boards then comes across with a racist statement larger than that of Kanye's. I understand this is a passionate topic and will overlook these things said. We are all angry about this tragedy.

How about Kanye hates white people? Sounds just as messed up, but a lot more likely.

Here are my points to make, do with them as you wish;

Local Government was responsible to help those who can not afford transport. They must first take care of their own.(wtf?) The president is not responsible for lining up buses to take people out of the city.

Local Government failed in their planning. Sending people to the superdome without any resources(wtf?)

There are more white people in New Orleans than Black people. The media is showing downtown New Orleans (higher black concentration). There are more people outside the city limits and stretching the entire gulf coast who have been hit harder than NO. (Outlying areas may show a greater concentration of whites).

There are other levels of government ahead of George Bush who may have failed to react as quick as we'd like (local, state, homeland security, fema).

I don't think we all understand the timeline of events. After the hurricane hit, there was a lapse before the flooding... The hurricane wasn't the issue in NO, it was the flooding. The timer shouldn't start when the storm hit, but the moment the flooding emergency was known.

George Bush was thankfully in Texas. He was able to get to the scene much faster. Do you all recall he did the fly over in AF1 within 24 hours of the flooding.

I think the president reacted as best he could, I think I'm only disappointed with (and this is the real issue) that he did not come on TV the first day to address the countries immediate needs.

TIME WILL SHOW;

More whites than blacks have been impacted by this tragedy.

The director of FEMA will be the scape goat, he seems completely unqualified for the job and really screwed up.

The Mayor of NO will not take any blame as a function of our PC culture.

George Bush will not get re-elected.

scottz5 will cave and get ASA AR-1's for his 330i.


WHAT TO DO:
I am donating $100 to the red-cross and employer will match 100% for a $200 donation. I too encourage you to do the same.

Let's help these people and avoid partisan politics (btw I am not a republican). It's tough for me to watch people take advantage of a tragedy to support their cause.
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      09-06-2005, 05:06 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BellasBmw
Ok im not afraid to admit that i do not know AS much as a social studies teacher..etc. BUT there is no excuse for ppl to starve in a CITY, in the UNITED STATES. All i have to say is that something should have been done sooner.. .so im assuming you think the govt is handling this situation properly? So 5 days is a reasonable time to wait for help?... geez.
I was a Political Science major in college, and I still don't know very much about the way the government REALLY operates.

I hear where everyone is coming from here, really, but here it is:

Remember after 9/11 everybody praised Bush for his response and then his approval shot through the roof? Then Fahrenheit 9/11 came out and everbody thought Bush's response sucked. He kept reading to schoolkids. (well, he did say he had a commitment to education! ).

Then, after the Tsunami, everyone was down on Bush and the US for not pledging more money. Some countries pledged a much larger share of GDP than the US and everyone blamed the US. You would think America was responsible for the tsunami ! (I had two very dear friends nearly die in Thailand, by the way). Truth is, the US gave everything it pledged and even MUCH MORE, while other countries routinely pledged the moon and then actually gave very little. This happens all the time unfortunately.

Now we have New Orleans. Everyone appears to be an expert on disaster relief response time. I feel I can speak on this since I used to be a firefighter. I was assigned to a FEMA fire in Florida in 1998, when they had to evacuate all of Volusia county. AN ENTIRE COUNTY. They even cancelled the Daytona 500 that year (GASP!). I was assigned to a helibase near Kennedy Space Center and managed helicopter operations for a series of fires nearby. It took us nearly 5 days to get 25 helicopters and support equipment in place and get a staff of about 300 personnel situated to assist. We were flying in fire engines from all over the country, including California. I was there for 3 days before the bulk of the equipment got there. Helicopters have to stop every 3 hours or so for fuel and there is only so far you can fly in 3 hours at 120 mph. So I don't think that the response time in New Orleans was that unusual.

With all due respect to everyone that blames the government, it takes time to put an effective relief effort in place. Regardless of what the president was doing after the disaster, he could get just as much done at Crawford, TX as he could in Washington or Louisiana. Does it look good that he stayed in Crawford, no. Would I have done that, probably not. But we don't know what the reason was. People will believe what they want to believe, and I don't expect anyone to be happy about the disaster, or to change their mind about any elected official if they hate him already. It's natural to get upset and start pointing fingers, but this is not productive or helpful. I find it interesting that the media is basically egging the victims on asking them if it makes them mad that it has taken x amount of time for them to get help. What good does that do? What do you think they are going to say? So what do we learn? That disaster sucks? Who didn't know that already? What if they asked: Does it make you mad that you have waited x amount of time to be rescued, and all I am going to do is ask you some questions and then not help you either? I think they would respond the same way to that. A disaster is called a disaster because it is a DISASTER!

If you really must blame somebody, I think that the Louisiana state government is the most to blame for not having an effective evacuation plan in place for a city that is BELOW SEA LEVEL WITH INADEQUATE LEVIES! It's like living in a hollowed out fire log surrounded by forest fires, and not having a smoke detector.
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