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      06-19-2010, 01:30 PM   #1
cap_freez
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M3 Torque opinion

hey Guys,

This is not a post to start another thread complaining about the M3's engine torque a low rpm but rather a different take on it.

Most of the complaints you hear are that the M3's torque Vs the 335 make the latter the better DD. But I don't understand that. see, a car that pushes hard very early forces me to drive fast all the time, but a car with the torque characteristics of the M3 can actually let me choose my type of driving better. The low torque down lets you cruise around if you wish and if you want to floor it... you can.

so I feel the M3 is the better DD vs the 335. Just a thought.
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      06-19-2010, 01:34 PM   #2
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I don't think it makes much difference at all.... I've driven cars with a lot of torque, and some with a lot less. Never had an issue daily driving either
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      06-19-2010, 01:52 PM   #3
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There's plenty of torque for me. When I put my foot down, it goes. Maybe not as fast or as hard as others, but plenty for everyday driving.


.
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      06-19-2010, 01:55 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
I don't think it makes much difference at all.... I've driven cars with a lot of torque, and some with a lot less. Never had an issue daily driving either
+1

It's all about the right foot and what you do with it.
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      06-19-2010, 02:07 PM   #5
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low end pull is useful of you have a narrow power range, but since M3 has 8400 rpm to play with, it's not as critical.
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      06-19-2010, 02:22 PM   #6
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OP, if you're happy, great! That's all the matters (really).

I've already said everything I ever want to say on this topic. Now I'm going to sit back and watch.

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      06-19-2010, 02:30 PM   #7
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I love it. I think it's not much different than the 335, at least in how I drive...I don't care. It's just not fast if you're going like 80 (km/h) in 6th, but more of an excuse to downshift
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      06-19-2010, 03:29 PM   #8
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I've owned and 335i torque monster, but prefer the M3. No torque issues.
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      06-19-2010, 06:35 PM   #9
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oof. torque means absolutely nothing without gearing.
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      06-19-2010, 11:06 PM   #10
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I'm a novice and new... But, who cares!?! The M3 is fun to drive and a good daily driver/around town, a great "all around" car. You can go balls to the wall, or be very sedate, the car is plenty fast.

All this torque talk, I find a bit silly... I first got it from a guy driving a Corvette (the consummate middle/late age, gold chain wearing, top four buttons unbuttoned on a tacky shirt, bad hair cut, 100% tipping at Hooters, car).

My truck as more torque for gawdsake! It's a car enjoy it for what it is, there will always be something better... But, there are a whole lot that are worse.
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      06-19-2010, 11:18 PM   #11
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it's like a sport bike. revs high and has the power through the band. here's the deal; it's just not fun unless you're in an open** road and you're driving the piss out of it. otherwise it driver like a normal car. wether that's a good or bad thing that's your decision. don't forget the m3 isn't suppose to compete against it's smaller brother the 335 but against the C63, which has mountains of more power down low. in orange county california the m3 is the perfect thing but for a place with even light traffic the m3 just doesn't work..
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      06-20-2010, 12:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saeedg48 View Post
. in orange county california the m3 is the perfect thing but for a place with even light traffic the m3 just doesn't work..
mine works fine in traffic
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      06-21-2010, 10:38 AM   #13
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Supercharge it.... bye bye lack of low end torque!!
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      06-21-2010, 08:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e1000 View Post
oof. torque means absolutely nothing without gearing.
Exactly. The M3 actually has a lot more torque per gear than the 335, so the whole torque argument is bull shit.
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      06-21-2010, 09:00 PM   #15
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I think everyone is just so used to the N54/N55. I never thought the car needed more torque. It's the same with the N52, people are just too used to the 335.
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      06-21-2010, 10:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
I've owned and 335i torque monster, but prefer the M3. No torque issues.
"torque monster"? The difference in torque between the 335i and M3 is 5 ft-lbs. You cannot feel that difference in a 3500+ pound car. Now the 335d, THAT is a torque monster. But guess what, it doesn't make it faster than the M3 either.
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      06-21-2010, 10:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Driver View Post
"torque monster"? The difference in torque between the 335i and M3 is 5 ft-lbs. You cannot feel that difference in a 3500+ pound car. Now the 335d, THAT is a torque monster. But guess what, it doesn't make it faster than the M3 either.
The issue is not the total torque, it's where it comes in.

335 @ 1400 rpm
M3 @ 3000+
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      06-21-2010, 10:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Driver View Post
"torque monster"? The difference in torque between the 335i and M3 is 5 ft-lbs. You cannot feel that difference in a 3500+ pound car. Now the 335d, THAT is a torque monster. But guess what, it doesn't make it faster than the M3 either.

I came from a tuned 335i, that produced well above stock numbers, but it also went thru three sets of turbos.

I am very happy with my M3.
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      06-21-2010, 11:32 PM   #19
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Being a non-turbo engine, the S65's specific toruqe is 73.75 lb-ft/liter. The highest of any road going car is the new Ferrari 458's 89 lb-ft/liter, but I doubt the 458's engine is as long lasting and reliable as the S65. By comparison, the M159 in the E63 (the H.O. version) puts out 77.31 lb-ft/liter (it's rated at 480 lb-ft of torque out of 6.2 Liters). So the M159's specific torque output is a little higher (4.8%), yet the S65's specific power out is much higher (13%) at 103.5 hp/L, compared to the M159's 90.8 hp/L.

Not that the M159 isn't a great engine (who doesn't like 563 HP and 480 lb-ft), but it helps put in perspective how good the S65 truly is. Both engines have a fairly flat torque curve from 3500 rpm onwards, and last I checked 295lb-ft of torque was plenty. And as others have stated, the car is geared properly to exploit the torque that it has. Plus, there's no point in having more torque if it's going to unsettle the car coming out of corners. There has to be a balance, and the engineers seem to have struck that with the M3.
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      06-21-2010, 11:39 PM   #20
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The torque works very well for me on DD.
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      06-22-2010, 02:12 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChitownM3 View Post
Exactly. The M3 actually has a lot more torque per gear than the 335, so the whole torque argument is bull shit.
Someone who understands!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GewoW View Post
The issue is not the total torque, it's where it comes in.

335 @ 1400 rpm
M3 @ 3000+
The issue is not torque at all, it's horsepower. The guys that focus on torque figures are just knowledge enough to be dangerous, but don't know enough to really comprehend the relationship between horsepower (work), torque (force), acceleration and gearing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piloto View Post
Being a non-turbo engine, the S65's specific toruqe is 73.75 lb-ft/liter. The highest of any road going car is the new Ferrari 458's 89 lb-ft/liter, but I doubt the 458's engine is as long lasting and reliable as the S65. By comparison, the M159 in the E63 (the H.O. version) puts out 77.31 lb-ft/liter (it's rated at 480 lb-ft of torque out of 6.2 Liters). So the M159's specific torque output is a little higher (4.8%), yet the S65's specific power out is much higher (13%) at 103.5 hp/L, compared to the M159's 90.8 hp/L.

Not that the M159 isn't a great engine (who doesn't like 563 HP and 480 lb-ft), but it helps put in perspective how good the S65 truly is. Both engines have a fairly flat torque curve from 3500 rpm onwards, and last I checked 295lb-ft of torque was plenty. And as others have stated, the car is geared properly to exploit the torque that it has. Plus, there's no point in having more torque if it's going to unsettle the car coming out of corners. There has to be a balance, and the engineers seem to have struck that with the M3.
I never understood why people argued about specific power output ratings. They mean very little. Only gearheads will ever care about hp/L. Simply put, at the end of the day, the performance of an engine is all that counts.
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      06-22-2010, 02:36 AM   #22
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Certainly, while it's performance that counts at the end of the day, it's not the engine's performance, but that of the car as a whole that matters. So let's take into account, HP, torque, weight, gearing, the overall drivetrain, and the chassis. Specific power output is still a great indication of the engine's design, as is specific torque. And yes, I'm a gearhead, as are many on this forum. Would you rather have a LS3 under the M3's hood? The LS3 is a fantastic engine, but it's not in character with the M3. The S65, with it's high specific HP and specific torque make it a gem, and the perfect pairing with the E9X M3 chassis.

Last edited by piloto; 06-22-2010 at 02:43 AM.
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