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      05-31-2010, 10:21 AM   #45
G-Mach1
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SV is at fault. He cut in to MW and on top they were asked to turn sown the revs to save fuel. The only reason SV was able to catch up to MW was because he didn't and MW did.
SV is not at all level headed. Look at the way he made hand signs towards MW. I don't like MW and I think now it shows the true colors and the classs of both drivers. I thought MW did well on the interview and he gave the politically correct answers.
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      05-31-2010, 10:55 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Mach1 View Post
SV is at fault. He cut in to MW and on top they were asked to turn sown the revs to save fuel. The only reason SV was able to catch up to MW was because he didn't and MW did.
SV is not at all level headed. Look at the way he made hand signs towards MW. I don't like MW and I think now it shows the true colors and the classs of both drivers. I thought MW did well on the interview and he gave the politically correct answers.
It appears that way from the front view replay.

Rear views show that his right rear hit the white line & lost traction, which caused his front to dive towards MW.

Also only MW was given the fuel save order.

The Red Bull team needs to take a large slice of the blame for this.
They are obviously pushing for SV over MW.
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      05-31-2010, 11:20 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
It appears that way from the front view replay.

Rear views show that his right rear hit the white line & lost traction, which caused his front to dive towards MW.

Also only MW was given the fuel save order.

The Red Bull team needs to take a large slice of the blame for this.
They are obviously pushing for SV over MW.

While MW was being stubborn, you can't put the blame on him.



If you look closely, the incident happens a fair bit after Vettel moves fully inside the white line - so I'm not sure this was a lost traction issue. If I had to guess, Vettel expected MW to move over, and MW didn't.

Vettel could have (and should have) taken the outside line, since Mark was effectively taking the inside. MW should have moved over once he saw Vettel was ahead, but he probably didn't have time to react (Vettel's car moved into his in fractions of a second).
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      05-31-2010, 12:06 PM   #48
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No... I think there's enough blame for everyone to share.
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      05-31-2010, 03:10 PM   #49
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I put MW more at fault, and I'm no fan of SV. MW is known to be overaggressive when taken over (he's the worst in F1, according to most). SV was obviously faster, so MW should have been less aggressive once SV overcame his also overaggressive blocking, and was clearly ahead of him. RedBull would have ended 1-2 anyway.

The rest is unknown, like if SV radioed the team with intent to pass, how much fuel each had left, what instructions they had from the team, etc. But according to facts available to us, SW should have backed off his aggression when passed. Wish both had crashed, but MW was lucky to finish 3rd. SV was the clear loser here. Let's see what happens the rest of the season.
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      05-31-2010, 03:13 PM   #50
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Right or wrong, IMO this probably means the end of MW at Red Bull.
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      05-31-2010, 03:16 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
While MW was being stubborn, you can't put the blame on him.



If you look closely, the incident happens a fair bit after Vettel moves fully inside the white line - so I'm not sure this was a lost traction issue. If I had to guess, Vettel expected MW to move over, and MW didn't.

Vettel could have (and should have) taken the outside line, since Mark was effectively taking the inside. MW should have moved over once he saw Vettel was ahead, but he probably didn't have time to react (Vettel's car moved into his in fractions of a second).
I doubt it Ive seen better reactions in much worse formula 1 situations..he was just being stubborn and protecting his line
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      05-31-2010, 04:18 PM   #52
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from
http://www.formula1.com/news/intervi...0/5/10855.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by KANdaddy View Post
Vettel should have let the team know ahead of time that he felt he was faster and wanted to make the pass.
Q: Is it true that the team gave instructions to Mark Webber’s race engineer to let Sebastian Vettel pass because otherwise Lewis (Hamilton)would be able to overtake?

Helmut Marko : That is not correct, because that would mean a team order. We informed Mark about the situation and it is for the driver to decide. The fact is that if Sebastian hadn’t passed he would have been overtaken by Hamilton.

Mark Know Seb was going to try to pass him

I like Red Bull think Webber was in the wrong on this one.

Yes Mark, give Vettel the bare minimum amount of room, but there are (and this is Key) TEAMMATES and once the pass is clearly going to happen, there is no reason for Mark to Force the issue that hard.

If there were not teammates I would likely see it a little differently but not a lot... because in the end. Mark cost himself second place and 5 points, because at any point he could have give up 1st but secured Second
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      05-31-2010, 10:24 PM   #53
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They just didn't do what they suppose to do...give each other enough room to be comfortable...

They did side by side once in Malaysian GP right off the start...that was done professionally....but not this time...
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      05-31-2010, 11:02 PM   #54
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Quote:
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If there were not teammates I would likely see it a little differently but not a lot... because in the end. Mark cost himself second place and 5 points, because at any point he could have give up 1st but secured Second
Exactly. Mark is at fault to me. He cost himself 5 and the team 30.
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      06-01-2010, 01:34 AM   #55
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This might help make the incident clearer

I certainly found it an interesting read. I also find it intriguing that most of the people on this blog (as well as, it sounds like, James Allen himself, and the BBC crew of Coulthard-Jordan-Brundle seemed to agree that Vettel is to blame).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/8714410.stm

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/0...n-at-red-bull/

Last edited by Echo M3; 06-01-2010 at 01:46 AM.
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      06-01-2010, 01:37 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine3 View Post
I doubt it Ive seen better reactions in much worse formula 1 situations..he was just being stubborn and protecting his line
Really? You see him twitch away from Vettel immediately after Vettel changes his line. But when a car is a few inches away, you are never going to be able to react quick enough to avoid all contact.
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      06-01-2010, 03:26 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
Really? You see him twitch away from Vettel immediately after Vettel changes his line. But when a car is a few inches away, you are never going to be able to react quick enough to avoid all contact.

Webber sees him closing in look how clear it is from the on-car camera and he just stands there ..should have swerved right, he has so much space + Vettel was clearly faster
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      06-01-2010, 09:04 AM   #58
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They have to blame themselves for letting this happen.
OF COURSE MW has all the rights to stick to his racing line since they are fighting for position. And as MW has a reputation of "one of the hardest person to overtake" and "bulldozer". It is inevitable for something like this happen.

If both drivers kept its cool, it would've still be a Red Bull 1-2. Vettel could've relay to his race engineer stating he was catching up with Mark, and will overtake. Mark should've give more comfortable room to Sebastien and mount his counter attack.

Such an expensive lesson to RBR, they've done it sensibly in Malaysia, why cannot they do it again in Turkey?
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      06-01-2010, 10:33 AM   #59
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Such an expensive lesson to RBR, they've done it sensibly in Malaysia, why cannot they do it again in Turkey?
Because SV is under preasure right now from his team mate. He just can't accept the fact that his team mate is beating him fair and square. He is the poster boy at RBR.
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      06-01-2010, 10:43 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Mach1 View Post
Because SV is under preasure right now from his team mate. He just can't accept the fact that his team mate is beating him fair and square. He is the poster boy at RBR.
I think you have it a little wrong here. What he's having trouble dealing with it the shitty luck of his car always being the one with the mechanical problems. He would have likely been the pole sitter in Turkey but yet another component failed on his car in Q3. He drove several races with a broken chassis and that is after his brakes failing and the motor shitting the bed in previous races. That is why he's frustrated. He took it in stride when it was 1 or 2 incidents but now it's been what...4 or 5? I would be out of my mind with frustration at this point.
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      06-01-2010, 10:47 AM   #61
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Quote:
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I think you have it a little wrong here. What he's having trouble dealing with it the shitty luck of his car always being the one with the mechanical problems. He would have likely been the pole sitter in Turkey but yet another component failed on his car in Q3. He drove several races with a broken chassis and that is after his brakes failing and the motor shitting the bed in previous races. That is why he's frustrated. He took it in stride when it was 1 or 2 incidents but now it's been what...4 or 5? I would be out of my mind with frustration at this point.
Well he should accept the fact that when you are dealing with moving parts these things happen. It is not MW (I don't like SV and MW) fault.
Kimi had the worst luck when he was at Mclaren did he behave like this?
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      06-01-2010, 11:00 AM   #62
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I never said it was MWs fault. You're comparing 2 very different personalities. Kimi isn't exactly Mr.Charisma while SV is very a light-hearted kid trying to get a functioning car under him so he can win the races he was so capable of winning. I still don't see where he's behaving "like this." His team mate was ahead of him driving slower than he was so he tried to pass. These guys are race car drivers... they're aggressive by nature. It was a racing incident, albeit a stupid one.
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      06-01-2010, 11:08 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
I never said it was MWs fault. You're comparing 2 very different personalities. Kimi isn't exactly Mr.Charisma while SV is very a light-hearted kid trying to get a functioning car under him so he can win the races he was so capable of winning. I still don't see where he's behaving "like this." His team mate was ahead of him driving slower than he was so he tried to pass. These guys are race car drivers... they're aggressive by nature. It was a racing incident, albeit a stupid one.
This time when SV got a working car and faster than MW...I do not see the reason why Vettel has to stay put behind a slower car. Also Hamilton was all over his rear view mirror too.

However his move can be more clean, and Mark stayed his position also contributed to the incident. Its just very unfortunate, if its RBR with another car. It wouldn't be such a big drama and news, but as two RBR collide (just like their logo image ) and all the pressure brewing with SV vs MW....its a HUGE deal...like Alonso vs Hamilton three years ago...
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      06-01-2010, 11:11 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
This time when SV got a working car and faster than MW...I do not see the reason why Vettel has to stay put behind a slower car. Also Hamilton was all over his rear view mirror too.

However his move can be more clean, and Mark stayed his position also contributed to the incident. Its just very unfortunate, if its RBR with another car. It wouldn't be such a big drama and news, but as two RBR collide (just like their logo image ) and all the pressure brewing with SV vs MW....its a HUGE deal...like Alonso vs Hamilton three years ago...
I think this sums it up pretty well.
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      06-01-2010, 11:39 AM   #65
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MW was slower for a reason.
RBR should accept responsiblity for what happen. They are clearly backing SV on this and pinning all the blame on MW.
I agree they are drivers and they will race. However what I don't understand is that when SV does a move like this every one accepts it and says he is a kid. When some one else does it , it is a big deal.
Remember in this same forum people were all over LH for calling on his team over the radio. I see no one making any remarks about the hand gesture SV did? Do I see a double standard here....
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      06-01-2010, 12:05 PM   #66
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