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      05-30-2010, 01:42 PM   #45
footie
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Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
I happen to see a company who in one breath tells me that a car that makes up 3% of their sales must get better fuel economy as the justification for making FI (cough.....///M3....cough), while they plow money into tuned SUVs (sorry SSAVs) that east twice as much gas and refuse to place their diesels into ALL (7, GT, X3, etc) cars.

Doesn't make much sense to worry about fuel consumption and emissions in low production cars, and yet not seem to have a care in the world about their high volume production cars.

Has me completely

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Can you explain to me how diesel engines are viewed in North America, according to anyone I have spoke to on the subject their view is tractor unit for hauling product all over the country, the very idea of owning a diesel motor is like admitting you are a communist. Probably a bit extreme an example but I think you get my drift, those people gave me the impression that the US isn't fully ready to make the switch to diesel power like how it has done in Europe.

Back to the subject of the 5erGT, there is no denying that it's probably BMW's least successful design to date but like Scott says it's out performing their expectations else where so maybe America isn't fully ready for a luxury hatchback neither.
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      05-30-2010, 02:53 PM   #46
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+1, it is HIDEOUS in person.
+2.
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      05-30-2010, 05:11 PM   #47
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anyone know if they are throwing out some specials on these low selling GTs?
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      05-30-2010, 09:46 PM   #48
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I saw the GT at the dealer a few days ago.

I don't get it. But then, I don't see the point of the Porsche Cayenne either.
I could care less what brand is on there, if it's ugly, it's ugly.

That said, I was really shocked when I saw the interior. It seems BMW can make a nice interior. Inside this thing is very nice.
They should take some of that effort and bring it to the 1 and 3 series, and then Audi will have better interior design competition.
The new Z4 has a very nice interior. It even rivals the Audi TT.

For the money, the A3 has a nicer interior than the 1 series, but the VW GTI, I think is even better than the A3. The A4 is much better than the 3, even thought the new A4 interior is a bit more plasticky than the former model.
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      05-31-2010, 09:26 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Can you explain to me how diesel engines are viewed in North America, according to anyone I have spoke to on the subject their view is tractor unit for hauling product all over the country, the very idea of owning a diesel motor is like admitting you are a communist. Probably a bit extreme an example but I think you get my drift, those people gave me the impression that the US isn't fully ready to make the switch to diesel power like how it has done in Europe.

Back to the subject of the 5erGT, there is no denying that it's probably BMW's least successful design to date but like Scott says it's out performing their expectations else where so maybe America isn't fully ready for a luxury hatchback neither.
Most people still think that diesel cars nowadays sound and feel like a lawnmower, at least thats how I felt when I drove my wifes VW Beetle a couple years ago. Then came the test drive in a 335d and I was shocked at how it felt and the lack of diesel sound. That experience has me contemplating either a X3d or X5d for my third vehicle. A torque monster without the terrible feeling of the past diesels.
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      05-31-2010, 09:41 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
Most people still think that diesel cars nowadays sound and feel like a lawnmower, at least thats how I felt when I drove my wifes VW Beetle a couple years ago. Then came the test drive in a 335d and I was shocked at how it felt and the lack of diesel sound. That experience has me contemplating either a X3d or X5d for my third vehicle. A torque monster without the terrible feeling of the past diesels.
But that isn't really answering my question on whether Americans in general are willing to make the shift over the diesel power. I have always got the feeling (correct or wrong) that most American class it their god given right to drive a huge gas guzzler as much as it that they have to right to carry a gun to protect themselves.

But on the subject of oil burners, you are quite right they all have come an awfully long way in recent years and if refinement is the most important thing then you need to try the Jaguar diesel in either the Xf or new XJ as it's truly incredible and very un-diesel like of all of them.
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      05-31-2010, 10:46 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
But that isn't really answering my question on whether Americans in general are willing to make the shift over the diesel power. I have always got the feeling (correct or wrong) that most American class it their god given right to drive a huge gas guzzler as much as it that they have to right to carry a gun to protect themselves.

But on the subject of oil burners, you are quite right they all have come an awfully long way in recent years and if refinement is the most important thing then you need to try the Jaguar diesel in either the Xf or new XJ as it's truly incredible and very un-diesel like of all of them.
I think part of the problem is the americans' fascination with hp. We want more hp even though 90% of the time we are stuck in traffic or commuting at relatively low speed. Diesel is regarded as high torque but low hp compared to a gasoline engine. I did testdrive the X5 35d and was surprised and impressed by how good the engine felt. I might trade my X5 4.8i for a 35d.
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      05-31-2010, 11:04 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by pmeloche View Post
I think part of the problem is the americans' fascination with hp. We want more hp even though 90% of the time we are stuck in traffic or commuting at relatively low speed. Diesel is regarded as high torque but low hp compared to a gasoline engine. I did testdrive the X5 35d and was surprised and impressed by how good the engine felt. I might trade my X5 4.8i for a 35d.
I myself am smitten with modern diesels, the sytle of the power delivery is both rewarding in normal driving situations and even when you do put the boot down the mileage is still remarkable. A perfect example of this was my XF before I returned the XFDS I was getting 39mpg (imp gallons) and even when I did drive it like it was stolen it returned a very respectable 25mpg, all from a car weighing close on 2 ton and was capable of getting to 60mph and 100mph in under 6 seconds and 15 seconds respectively.

Plus after driving the new 530d equipped with the new ZF8sp I have to said that this engine/gearbox setup was one of the most impressive I have driven all year.
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      06-02-2010, 01:48 PM   #53
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I see a ton of X6s and GT550s. In fact, even my mom drives the GT.
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      06-03-2010, 02:52 PM   #54
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The 5GT is the shuttle of my dealership. If you get past the ugly exterior it's actually pretty nice inside. But I've only seen one that was non-dealer owned.
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      06-03-2010, 05:19 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by footie View Post
Can you explain to me how diesel engines are viewed in North America, according to anyone I have spoke to on the subject their view is tractor unit for hauling product all over the country, the very idea of owning a diesel motor is like admitting you are a communist. Probably a bit extreme an example but I think you get my drift, those people gave me the impression that the US isn't fully ready to make the switch to diesel power like how it has done in Europe.

Back to the subject of the 5erGT, there is no denying that it's probably BMW's least successful design to date but like Scott says it's out performing their expectations else where so maybe America isn't fully ready for a luxury hatchback neither.
2 reasons:
1) Diesels in the past have been loud and dirty. They have a bad reputation that will take some time to erase (like the bad quality reputation for American cars).
2) Economics - unlike many other countries, the US has very low gas taxes and an enormous gas refining and distribution network. Gas can be cheaper than diesel, sometimes signifiicantly, so the main reason is price and convenience.
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