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      05-21-2010, 08:08 AM   #1
Milk Run
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ZCP vs DIY

I'm ordering a new car.

Should I get the ZCP package or just do it myself?

I can order the rims from turner motorsport and then get the tires that I want for about $2000 + $1200 = $3200 total. I can then sell my stock tires and rims for $1000? $1500?

Who has the best price for ZCP rims?
What are the stock 18"s + tires worth?

I don't think that lowering the car 1cm matters to me.
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      05-21-2010, 08:15 AM   #2
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Theres more to ZCP than wheels/tires.
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      05-21-2010, 08:16 AM   #3
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Yes

There's EDC programming. I'm not getting EDC.
Then there is 1cm lower.

Is there anything else?

Frank
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      05-21-2010, 09:14 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milk Run View Post
There's EDC programming. I'm not getting EDC.
If you are not getting EDC, then you are not getting ZCP. The two cannot be decoupled.

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Then there is 1cm lower. Is there anything else?
Just wheels, lower suspension, and remmapped (active rather than static) EDC sport mode. DSC has been tweaked to handle those three changed parameters also, but that is more just incidental reprogramming, IMHO. Just like the E93 most surely has different DSC programming than an E92 - common sense.
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      05-21-2010, 09:28 AM   #5
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Just get aftermarket ECU programming. I didn't think the 10mm drop and non-forged wheels were worth 2,500 extra.
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      05-21-2010, 10:35 AM   #6
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the wheels are forged, just a different alloy. it is not mentioned what the difference is from literature i have seen.
my edition has different interior/leather/trim as well so it's not just springs/wheels.
if that's all the zcp is, then diy...get coilovers anyways and some nice aftermarket rims and you're better off than oem.
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      05-21-2010, 11:11 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3 View Post
the wheels are forged, just a different alloy. it is not mentioned what the difference is from literature i have seen.
my edition has different interior/leather/trim as well so it's not just springs/wheels.
if that's all the zcp is, then diy...get coilovers anyways and some nice aftermarket rims and you're better off than oem.
no they are not forged.

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The Competition Package, available for the Coupé and the Sedan, and the retrofit options from the range of Original BMW Accessories specially developed for the M3 are just two possible ways of individualising the sports car. With a suspension lowered by some 10 mm and light alloy wheels in the size 9 x 19 inches at the front and Y-spoke design at the rear, the Competition Package provides further optimised longitudinal and transverse dynamics. In addition, the control of the electronic damper adjustment function EDC including a Sport mode specially developed for the Competition Package has been precisely adjusted to the chassis modifications by means of map-based control and the driving stability control function DSC.
Trust me... if they were forged... they would mention it.
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      05-21-2010, 11:39 AM   #8
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i guess you guys don't get the forged rims with zcp, just the "edition" models get the special goodies

"Special rim design and lowered suspension.
To optimise the looks of the car, all four Edition Models come with specially designed light-alloy rims and a unique suspension: On all models the 19-inch forged M light-alloy rims in double-spoke design are available either in black or in the classic rim colour. And on the Alpine White, Black and Monte Carlo Blue models, the same rims are also available in a special white contrasting colour with polished spokes."

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267581
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      05-21-2010, 11:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3 View Post
i guess you guys don't get the forged rims with zcp, just the "edition" models get the special goodies

"...all four Edition Models come with specially designed light-alloy rims..."
That's because the Edition wheels are just the same wheel as the standard 19", except they are painted black. So they are of course forged, just like the 19" stardard wheel is. The ZCP wheels on the other hand are a completely different wheel altogether.
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      05-21-2010, 11:53 AM   #10
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if zcp wheels were forged, i would have gotten zcp package
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      05-21-2010, 11:54 AM   #11
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ZCP wheels aren't forged and are heavier than regular OEM 19" wheels. Also, IMO, the regular OEM 19's look much better.
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      05-21-2010, 12:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
DSC has been tweaked to handle those three changed parameters also, but that is more just incidental reprogramming, IMHO.
MK, can we say that the DSC is less intrusive; similar to the one that came on the e46 Competition package M3
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      05-21-2010, 12:59 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by eatrach73 View Post
MK, can we say that the DSC is less intrusive; similar to the one that came on the e46 Competition package M3
I don't think that is possible and here is why:

ZCP does not require ZTP
=> non-ZTP cars do not have MDM DSC mode
=> cars without MDM mode only have DSC OFF and DSC ON
=> You can't get more "off" than OFF

From what I know (don't quote me) the E46 ZCP actually added a third DSC mode (activated by the M Button on the steering wheel, IIRC). For the E9x, that evolved into the MDrive MDM DSC mode, optional on all E9x, ZCP or not.
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Last edited by mkoesel; 05-21-2010 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Forgot a "non" in there
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      05-21-2010, 01:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duk View Post
if zcp wheels were forged, i would have gotten zcp package
same here... that was a HUGE factor in turning the package down. Why am I paying $2500 for an ECU change, non-forged wheels and a 10mm drop?

I'd rather get the forged wheels and drop $ on suspension aftermarket which is probably better.

I'm not buying that EDU change, seriously is it really going to make THAT much a difference? I think not.
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      05-21-2010, 04:42 PM   #15
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Im all for the ZCP because its much more than just a drop and forged rims. I read up on how the new programming is different than the non ZCP.

to sum it up, in the ZCP the computer continuously regulates the various thresholds depending on the current situation, vs non ZCP the three modes would have fixed thresholds. You can basically say that with the ZCP the car is much smarter, and the technology has been perfected where the conditions are regulated by how much input the driver displays and the constantly changing external factors that would affect handling.

So yes, while it may be rims, and a drop, you have to remember the car is much more intelligent. This also influences my choice on transmission, because if i do choose the ZCP i will also get the DCT. These two upgrades dramatically alters the level of technological systems on board vs a manual m3 without ZCP.

decisions decisions... I still want that manual though... to have the pleasure of rowing through gears.... that NYC traffic scares me.


edit: not to mention the price of the ZCP include the complete suspension system, not just the software. You dont get charged twice for EDC and ZCP. So the 2500 is really lowered ride height + super awesome suspension setup + significantly more intellgent electronic control systems + forged Y spoke OEM rims which include M mobility so free change of tires, no matter what from bmw. Thats comforting stuff.
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      05-21-2010, 05:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smmmurf View Post
ZCP wheels aren't forged and are heavier than regular OEM 19" wheels. Also, IMO, the regular OEM 19's look much better.
+1
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      05-21-2010, 05:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiemyster View Post
to sum it up, in the ZCP the computer continuously regulates the various thresholds depending on the current situation, vs non ZCP the three modes would have fixed thresholds. You can basically say that with the ZCP the car is much smarter, and the technology has been perfected where the conditions are regulated by how much input the driver displays and the constantly changing external factors that would affect handling.
Can you provide the source for that particular piece of information? As far as I have been able to gather, there are no changes to the normal and comfort EDC modes. In fact, I'd sware there was a recent post here that stated that explicity. As for the sport mode, yes it is "smarter" but then one could say that having the sport mode be fixed to a specific damping rate - as the normal car does - was a feature as well.

Quote:
forged Y spoke OEM rims which include M mobility so free change of tires, no matter what from bmw.
I would be very surprised if the ZCP package includes any manner of "free change of tires" that is not also included with the non-ZCP car, if any such thing exists.

I do agree with you that the price is really not too bad. I believe EDC standalone is $1000 and the 19" wheels are $1200 (here in the US). So basically it's $300 for a lower suspension and wider wheels (that can handle wider rubber - or handle it more easily, anyway). Of course the forged vs. cast is still a tradeoff though.
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      05-21-2010, 08:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smmmurf View Post
ZCP wheels aren't forged and are heavier than regular OEM 19" wheels. Also, IMO, the regular OEM 19's look much better.
I'm not so sure about the weight. The e46 ZCP wheels were lighter than the stock e46 19's. I'd like to see the actual weights for the newer ZCP and Stocks.

-David
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      05-21-2010, 09:07 PM   #19
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I'm not so sure about the weight. The e46 ZCP wheels were lighter than the stock e46 19's. I'd like to see the actual weights for the newer ZCP and Stocks.

-David
The 359Ms are definitely heavier than the 220s, but only marginally so.

I may be wrong, but I think the E46 CSL/ZCPs weren't forged either, and were also heavier than their 19" counterparts. This is a case of history repeating itself.
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      05-21-2010, 10:12 PM   #20
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Here you go:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ight=Interview

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Can you provide the source for that particular piece of information? As far as I have been able to gather, there are no changes to the normal and comfort EDC modes. In fact, I'd sware there was a recent post here that stated that explicity. As for the sport mode, yes it is "smarter" but then one could say that having the sport mode be fixed to a specific damping rate - as the normal car does - was a feature as well.



I would be very surprised if the ZCP package includes any manner of "free change of tires" that is not also included with the non-ZCP car, if any such thing exists.

I do agree with you that the price is really not too bad. I believe EDC standalone is $1000 and the 19" wheels are $1200 (here in the US). So basically it's $300 for a lower suspension and wider wheels (that can handle wider rubber - or handle it more easily, anyway). Of course the forged vs. cast is still a tradeoff though.
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      05-21-2010, 10:24 PM   #21
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The 359Ms are definitely heavier than the 220s, but only marginally so.

I may be wrong, but I think the E46 CSL/ZCPs weren't forged either, and were also heavier than their 19" counterparts. This is a case of history repeating itself.
You're correct. The e46 ZCP package wheels were spun cast. 19's were forged.
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      05-22-2010, 12:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Can you provide the source for that particular piece of information? As far as I have been able to gather, there are no changes to the normal and comfort EDC modes. In fact, I'd sware there was a recent post here that stated that explicity. As for the sport mode, yes it is "smarter" but then one could say that having the sport mode be fixed to a specific damping rate - as the normal car does - was a feature as well.



I would be very surprised if the ZCP package includes any manner of "free change of tires" that is not also included with the non-ZCP car, if any such thing exists.

I do agree with you that the price is really not too bad. I believe EDC standalone is $1000 and the 19" wheels are $1200 (here in the US). So basically it's $300 for a lower suspension and wider wheels (that can handle wider rubber - or handle it more easily, anyway). Of course the forged vs. cast is still a tradeoff though.
http://m-power.com/_open/s/editorial...d=2086&lang=en
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